AIBU to think that the American, British and others should return to liberate the Afghani people?

[GreatEelRun]

I don’t usually do politics but my God, this situation is unacceptable. The US, the UK and whoever else was previously involved in the past 20- year restructure of Afghanistan need to return there right now, with additional support and get rid of the Taliban and Isis, no matter how long this takes.

I am utterly disgusted with our govt. The way I see it. we can return now and deal with it, or return in a few years after it’s been brought onto our own soil.

Where is the humanity in this crisis?

@youdontnome

My son is out there now. I am absolutely beside myself with worry. Perhaps you would like to send your relatives so that you can know how I feel. I however want him back asap.

I hope your son comes back safe and soon.

Erm... no, OP. Go do some reading.

For starters, the Taliban and ISIS are completely different organisations with different aims. They are not allies.

So many places across the globe where people have no democratic government, human rights are denied and where women and minorities are treated appallingly, Look at Saudi Arabia who we wine and dine at Buckingham Palace when they visit! Look at North Korea, Cambodia, many countries in Africa and Belarus. Look at how Palestine is treated.

What it all shows is how utterly futile it is to own nuclear weapons - so many 'superpowers' are powerless in the conflicts we face today. Military might doesn't work against religious fanatics who are prepared that everybody, including themselves, die for their cause.

The US, the UK and whoever else was previously involved in the past 20- year restructure of Afghanistan need to return there right now, with additional support and get rid of the Taliban and Isis

What is it you think they were trying to do for the last 20 years? Playing tiddlywinks with them? They can’t get rid of them. They never will.

Youdontnome I will have everything crossed that your lad gets back safely. I wouldn't want db to go back; it was bad enough for the six months he was deployed in 2010/11.

OP Until enough of the Afghan people want change, things will remain as they are.

12 US servicemen dead amongst the 60 killed.

So will USA run or fight ?

And why are people blaming the governments , this is the Taliban and ISIS . It’s like blaming a rape victim .

You can not get rid of ISIS or the Taliban or any other radical group. It's an ideology. They will be replaced by something or somebody else.

I'm not sure that "liberation" is a good cover any more - "Diplomacy Rules". Before 9/11 The Taliban were Western Allies, The West helped arm them as they defeated the Soviet Union.

The West erroneously invaded them in their hunt for Osama and AL-Q and stayed well after AQ and Osama had moved on or were extinguished.

The Taliban are Afghani Defenders, which makes them great Fighters in their own terrain, as many military personnel will attest to - only they will quash Isis X in their own land.

If they wanted to they could totally fuck up the current Western withdrawals and evacuations and they haven't so far.

I suggest that The Taliban are open to Diplomacy.

I have a friend who did several tours out there. Like most military personnel he worked with people from Afghanistan. They became his colleagues and his friends and now they're stuck out there with their lives at risk because of the jobs they did. It seems barbaric to just leave them there.

Afghanistan has effectively been in a civil war for the last 40 years (since 1979)

Our presence for the last 20 years did not resolve the situation, in some ways it made things worse

I don't think we should have withdrawn in this manner but having done so, there is absolutely no way we can go back in, it would be a slaughter.

The only thing we can do is try to put pressure on the Taliban (directly or via their backers) to not be quite so evil this time around.

OP do you think there's some correlation between what you said I don’t usually do politics to what is distressing you?

Go yourself if you feel that strongly

@dreamingbohemian

Afghanistan has effectively been in a civil war for the last 40 years (since 1979)

Our presence for the last 20 years did not resolve the situation, in some ways it made things worse

I don't think we should have withdrawn in this manner but having done so, there is absolutely no way we can go back in, it would be a slaughter.

The only thing we can do is try to put pressure on the Taliban (directly or via their backers) to not be quite so evil this time around.

we withdrew in 2014!! there has been no big UK presence in Afghanistan....we went back to repatriate our remaining personnel and those who had worked for us

U.S dont have many left to repatriate,I think they will all be out by Monday . Germany have now withdrawn too

op.....are you aware we withdrew from Afghanistan in 2014

This isn't true. The MOD even mentioned in a SM post this week, that UK forces have been there from the start and up to the present.

Up to now there had been a gradual withdrawal, including by the US. However, Biden these last few weeks has been disastrous. It's really quite shocking the way he has behaved. The anger about it is wholly understandable

Sorry @gardeninggirl68 I was using 'presence' loosely there -- the UK did maintain a training and advisory role after 2014, along with all the civilian aid elements. I was referring broadly to the US and European presence in country.

@Flaxmeadow

op.....are you aware we withdrew from Afghanistan in 2014

This isn't true. The MOD even mentioned in a SM post this week, that UK forces have been there from the start and up to the present.

Up to now there had been a gradual withdrawal, including by the US. However, Biden these last few weeks has been disastrous. It's really quite shocking the way he has behaved. The anger about it is wholly understandable

ooohhh cherry pick my post why don't you??? you left out the next sentence where i clearly said 'not in any volume'!!!

as an ex army wife I must have imagined the entire garrison (so it seemed) returning!!

It’s an immensely complicated situation that has no real solution.

When I read posts like this I wonder why people who feel this way don’t scream and shout about the situation in North Korea. The people living there are subjected to utterly horrifying violence and oppression but no one is advocating that we go marching in to liberate them.

The withdrawal has been shambolic and shameful.

However going back in now isn’t the answer. They have been supporting the country for the past 20 years now.
The fact the government fell pretty much instantly shows that out presence in Afghanistan wasn’t really accomplishing anything and it was time to go (but not in this way).

Indefinite presence in Afghanistan and enforcement of ‘our way’ would be colonialism, would it not?

ooohhh cherry pick my post why don't you??? you left out the next sentence where i clearly said 'not in any volume'!!!

Fair comment, but your post was contradictory.

as an ex army wife I must have imagined the entire garrison (so it seemed) returning!!

Maybe it seemed that way to you then.

@flaxmeadow

this was my post

*op.....are you aware we withdrew from Afghanistan in 2014?

we haven't been there in volume for years*

We (and other countries including the US) have spent 20 years training and equipping the Afghan army. Then we withdrew and said “get on with defending your country then”. But they chose not to! They surrendered without even fighting. So if they won’t defend their own country then how can we do it for them? We can’t stay there forever. The fact is, many Afghan people WANT Sharia law and Taliban rule. They aren’t remotely horrified by a return to brutality and oppression of women. The news was reporting men jeering at women in the street and yelling at them to go and buy burkas. Until the majority of people want freedom we cannot impose it upon them.

Sometimes you just have to give op. We and other countries have been trying for years and years and as bad as it may sound nothing changes and it’s a lost cause to keep sending in our husbands, sons, friends to fight a war that can never be won. Untill the people within that country truly want change it will not work.

I’m not willing for my husband, my brother, my father or my son to die fighting for something that cannot be fought for long term.

You're right, but now everything they fought for was a waste of time. It's all so depressing :-(

Yup - and it wouldn’t have been a waste of time if the US had stayed put.

Anyone who agrees with this evacuation doesn’t give a shit about women and children’s rights.

and as bad as it may sound nothing changes

Eh? Things did change enormously for Afghan people during the US occupation, particularly women.

And more American troops have been killed in the last 24 hours on Afghan soil (12) than they have been in the last 18 months (1).

It’s easy to say that we should go and ‘sort it out’ but not so easy to do. Historically, the British storming in to ‘help’ has rarely improved the situation.

It’s a very sad situation. Wish there was some way to magically resolve it, but unfortunately don’t think it’s as easy to do as to say. Much like North Korea.