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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that the American, British and others should return to liberate the Afghani people?

216 replies

GreatEelRun · 26/08/2021 18:31

I don’t usually do politics but my God, this situation is unacceptable. The US, the UK and whoever else was previously involved in the past 20- year restructure of Afghanistan need to return there right now, with additional support and get rid of the Taliban and Isis, no matter how long this takes.

I am utterly disgusted with our govt. The way I see it. we can return now and deal with it, or return in a few years after it’s been brought onto our own soil.

Where is the humanity in this crisis?

OP posts:
LemonSwan · 26/08/2021 23:43

Its fucked.

Biden basically said to the mentally unstable (religious extremists) that we just came for revenge for 20 years and it had nothing to do with 'restructuring' or stabilising the country. You cant reason with insanity so pointless words.

Simultaneously that statement told the sane and desperate normal people of Afghanistan that the only way we were coming back to save them was if they blew up more of the west.

So..
Its irrelevant what we should do when Biden's in charge; best laid plans and all

Justanotherlurker · 26/08/2021 23:45

But is this not what they sign up for?

Spoken like a true neo con who has no involvement and just expect the 'plebs' to do it.

justasking111 · 26/08/2021 23:45

An Arab friend said that the difference between us and them was that they would go back to living in tents if necessary. Their thinking is alien to us.

Obviouslynotallthere · 27/08/2021 00:06

Nope and never again.

youdontnome · 27/08/2021 00:06

I truly hope that my son and your sister return safely very soon.
My thoughts are with you.

PurpleOkapi · 27/08/2021 00:34

You can't force people to believe something just because you think they should. The Taliban wouldn't have retaken power so quickly if a large proportion of the country didn't prefer them to continued foreign occupation. I've yet to see anyone suggest a solution that sounds like it would work here.

amiadillo · 27/08/2021 01:00

But is this not what they sign up for?

To die? No I don't think that's what they sign up for.

Do you think NHS workers having to work during a pandemic without PPE is ok because it's what they signed up for?

MissTrip82 · 27/08/2021 01:08

@MarshmallowSwede

Are you also going to be on that flight back? Don’t volunteer the lives of young soldiers if you aren’t going yourself.
Are people incapable of grasping this is literally how the military works? Those smaller number of those who are in the military are sent by the larger number of those who are not.

By your ‘logic’ no troops would be deployed anywhere. The military would no longer exist.

We’re a military family and it’s really disturbing to me to think that other military families can’t get their minds around this reality.

MissTrip82 · 27/08/2021 01:13

@amiadillo

But is this not what they sign up for?

To die? No I don't think that's what they sign up for.

Do you think NHS workers having to work during a pandemic without PPE is ok because it's what they signed up for?

Where did you get this equivalence?

I accept as part of my work I treat people with a range of diseases I don’t want to catch, with some risk to myself. I signed up for that.

My husband accepts as part of his work he goes to places at war, with some risk to himself. He signed up for that.

I didn’t sign up to take risks without PPE anymore than my husband signed up to take risks without being armed and wearing protective gear. THAT would be a more broadly equivalent scenario.

amiadillo · 27/08/2021 01:35

I wasn't try to make an equivalent. My point was you can accept that your life may be at risk depending upon the job you sign up for but you would hope (or at least I would) that the powers that be in whichever job limit that risk & know how much risk is appropriate.

I think going back into Kabul now would be incredibly risky & the risk of death very high. That's just my opinion you can disagree.

LINABE · 27/08/2021 05:30

@PicsInRed

You do understand it was Trump who signed the Feb 2020 Doha Agreement with the Taliban?

Do you understand that this included pre conditions to be met and ability to extend and withdraw?

Biden could have extended or withdrawn from the agreement. He chose this, Biden chose this.

Trump is no longer president. Biden wanted this. Biden did this. The kudos for this belongs entirely to Biden.

Absolutely this.
Fatya · 27/08/2021 05:39

The US et al did not go into Afghanistan on humanitarian grounds in the first place.

I'm no scholar of global politic but aren't there dozens of other countries whose regimes are at least as oppressivee as the Taliban? Should the US and its allies liberate them too?

arcof · 27/08/2021 06:20

I think you all need to remember that ISIS was behind this attack today and not the Taliban. Do you know this branch of ISIS attacked girls' schools and maternity wards in Afghanistan this year, killing tens of people including children? Are you also outraged by that? Why did this happen then if all that was needed to keep all terrorists at bay in Afghanistan was to have a small number of troops - they were there in the country, yet this happened anyway.

Fact is, the evacuation situation presented an opportunity for this group to find exposed military personnel and attack them but in any situation whereby military have to screen those coming in to an airport, be it Bagram, or Kabu, even in an " orderly" departure, with Taliban on side, what makes you believe this couldn't have happened anyway? You wanted the military to get people out but with zero exposure to terrorist groups already active in the country, groups over which the Taliban has no influence and who oppose each other? Can someone explain what plan they would have put in place to achieve this zero risk situation?

Mummyoflittledragon · 27/08/2021 06:37

YABU
Biden is already pledging retaliation for the bombing yesterday. We will hunt you down and make you pay. The west is not altruistic and involvement in such conflicts is always because the west has something to gain and it’s either wealth or revenge.

chocolateorangeinhaler · 27/08/2021 06:39

@arcof

I think you all need to remember that ISIS was behind this attack today and not the Taliban. Do you know this branch of ISIS attacked girls' schools and maternity wards in Afghanistan this year, killing tens of people including children? Are you also outraged by that? Why did this happen then if all that was needed to keep all terrorists at bay in Afghanistan was to have a small number of troops - they were there in the country, yet this happened anyway.

Fact is, the evacuation situation presented an opportunity for this group to find exposed military personnel and attack them but in any situation whereby military have to screen those coming in to an airport, be it Bagram, or Kabu, even in an " orderly" departure, with Taliban on side, what makes you believe this couldn't have happened anyway? You wanted the military to get people out but with zero exposure to terrorist groups already active in the country, groups over which the Taliban has no influence and who oppose each other? Can someone explain what plan they would have put in place to achieve this zero risk situation?

This ⬆️
THisbackwithavengeance · 27/08/2021 07:21

I agree with @PurpleOkapi.

My understanding is that a large % of the Pashtun majority men supported the Taliban over the Western occupation forces and that is why the country was so quickly taken over. There was literally no resistance.

kirinm · 27/08/2021 07:22

No offence is intended but for those saying they don't want their children going back to Afghanistan, they presumably joined the military over the last 20 years. They must surely have known where they'd likely end up?

CampaignToo · 27/08/2021 07:28

@kirinm

No offence is intended but for those saying they don't want their children going back to Afghanistan, they presumably joined the military over the last 20 years. They must surely have known where they'd likely end up?
  1. The children chose the Army, not the parents.
  2. You might expect that government wouldn't send our young people into a fruitless never ending campaign.
  3. Regardless of those who have signed up knowing what they were in for, it's still a bit much to say "we" need to go back when you mean other people's children, not your own.
ActonSquirrel · 27/08/2021 07:28

I honestly couldn't believe this

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/25/hope-ex-marine-rescue-cats-dogs-animals-kabul-paul-farthing

An ex marine is trying to rescue dogs and cats.

You couldn't make this up. Never mind that people can't get out and are about to be subject to appalling human rights abuses.

No doubt people here will think it is a amazing as they put their pets on the same level as people.

It's utterly ludicrous.

TheQueef · 27/08/2021 07:30

@ActonSquirrel there are already separate threads about Pen.

Lightisnotwhite · 27/08/2021 07:30

@CampaignToo

Haven't we spent 20 years trying to do that? This is a defeat as much as a withdrawal.
It’s taken hundreds of years to civilise western society ( we used to chop of heads and hands back in the day). We were getting there in Afghanistan as they had peace and government with relatively little intervention. Pakistan was the problem hiding all the troublemakers.

A bit more targeted money and a second generation who only know a democratic government might have helped. I wish we could get everyone especially women and children out. Leave the Taliban men to fight over nothing.

CampaignToo · 27/08/2021 07:30

@ActonSquirrel

I honestly couldn't believe this

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/25/hope-ex-marine-rescue-cats-dogs-animals-kabul-paul-farthing

An ex marine is trying to rescue dogs and cats.

You couldn't make this up. Never mind that people can't get out and are about to be subject to appalling human rights abuses.

No doubt people here will think it is a amazing as they put their pets on the same level as people.

It's utterly ludicrous.

Me neither but his campaign seem to have loads of traction, more popular than any group trying to help refugees.
ActonSquirrel · 27/08/2021 07:32

[quote TheQueef]@ActonSquirrel there are already separate threads about Pen.[/quote]
Oh well sorry. Do you work for MN?

I've not seen every thread Hmm

TheQueef · 27/08/2021 07:33

No I was just mentioning it in case you were really interested.

FedNlanders · 27/08/2021 07:34

@ActonSquirrel

I honestly couldn't believe this

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/25/hope-ex-marine-rescue-cats-dogs-animals-kabul-paul-farthing

An ex marine is trying to rescue dogs and cats.

You couldn't make this up. Never mind that people can't get out and are about to be subject to appalling human rights abuses.

No doubt people here will think it is a amazing as they put their pets on the same level as people.

It's utterly ludicrous.

This news is 2 days old. There is now no hope now.