Page 5 | 'Life empty without children'

ncncncncncncncnc12 · 2021-08-03T13:32:34+00:00

I am married and really want a family. Two of my close are single - I think one would like children if she met the right person and one is very vocal about not wanting them and they ruin lives / relationships etc. We are TTC and have had some set backs this year, which they know about. Over the weekend we were talking and they said that even if it doesn't happen for us, I will still have a great life with my husband, having nice holidays and more money etc and it's nothing to be sad about. But actually, I would be very sad if it doesn't work out, I yearn to have a family. I said that of course I love my husband but we both really want to be parents and to me (not everyone) my life would feel a bit pointless without children. It's caused huge offence and taken that I think their life is pointless. I dont think that, but yes for me, holidays and cars are not going to fill the strong urge I have to be a mother. Who is BU?

Original poster

ncncncncncncncnc12 · 03/08/2021 16:00

@EastWestWhosBest @Lottapianos apologies, I added the cars bit but it was her who said about more money and holidays

OP posts:

TheAverageUser · 03/08/2021 16:00

I don't think either of you are BU, you just have different values.

I think you've walked into a conversation that is quite delicate to your friend because I think women who don't want children do sometimes feel judged. I'm not getting the impression that was your intention or feeling but could be worth backing down anyway.

leonpride · 03/08/2021 16:00

@Taliskerskye

You actually said life would be pointless without children and you wonder why they took offence.

"Life is pointless without kids"

Vs

"My life feels pointless without kids"

Not the same, and I agree with OP. If I could never have kids I wouldn't ever get over it, personally. In the same way some people say "kids ruin your life"- I wouldn't take offence as I'm secure in my decision.

EmoIsntDead · 03/08/2021 16:01

@gannett

Child-free women hear variants on "life is pointless without kids" all the fucking time and often it is directed at them (even if sometimes wrapped up in more general wording, it's still intended as a dig). So I'm not surprised she took offence.

YANBU to feel how you feel - though personally I think it's quite sad if you really can't see a point to your life without children - but that word is particularly insensitive to use to child-free people, because it DOES sound like you're judging them.

Absolutely.

therocinante · 03/08/2021 16:01

@gannett

Child-free women hear variants on "life is pointless without kids" all the fucking time and often it is directed at them (even if sometimes wrapped up in more general wording, it's still intended as a dig). So I'm not surprised she took offence.

YANBU to feel how you feel - though personally I think it's quite sad if you really can't see a point to your life without children - but that word is particularly insensitive to use to child-free people, because it DOES sound like you're judging them.

This is it, I think. We hear that, or a variation of it, a LOT. From people who genuinely believe our lives are pointless without children.

So even if you 100% definitely, absolutely clarified in conversation you meant your life ONLY, there's still the unspoken "...because life is pointless without kids" that we hear a really quite weird amount. It feels like an implied judgement, because it so often is. And maybe that's her problem - I don't feel a single bit of doubt about my choice but I am still annoyed when I get this because it's so frequent, and that's my issue to get over.

But then you doubled down with the holidays and cars comment, which crosses the line from "this is a personal choice to me" into "things that may bring you joy won't bring me joy because I am fulfilling my higher purpose and I am not fulfilled by frivolous things". Which has judgemental overtones. I'd have been annoyed too, tbh.

As an aside, when an ex-friend made a comment about how they were having a third child because life was SO FULFILLING now and she was so glad she wasn't still "just selfishly thinking about myself all the time. I just look at my life now and think, well done me, I actually did something with my life" (yes, really)... I just replied "God yeah, like, for me, I'm so glad I made the right choice to not have to ask a man to do basic parenting tasks every day and just focusing on my career, so glad I did something with my life." She had the cheek to be annoyed.

PostMenWithACat · 03/08/2021 16:01

Neither were in the wrong but both or all of you should possibly have kept your thoughts to yourselves and been mindful of the fact that very often what comes out of people's mouths is not what they actually have in their heads.

I wanted to be a mummy for as long as I can remember. My dolls were my world, a bit of net over my head and a friend carrying it behind me was my dream.

I had a very successful career before having my first child at 35 and frankly struggling to produce two. Oh how often I smiled and said bright things congratulating other people whilst feeling broken inside. How much harder it would have been if I'd ever worn my heart on my sleeve.

I adore my children. Grown up now. I loved their babyhood and childhoods and had the most glorious time: playing, painting, learning letters, numbers and colours, sometimes just being, stacking their opportunities for Oxbridge, etc.

Sometimes one might whisper ones dreams on MNet and get slapped down a bit. But in RL op, shhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

sammylady37 · 03/08/2021 16:02

*Lottapianos
'Tbh as a childless woman I’m still trying to process the holidays and cars remark….'

Same here. It's incredibly tiresome and lacking in imagination to think that a childfree life is endlessly materialistic. None of this is helped by the stereotypes that parents are sensitive, empathetic saints and childfree women are all Carrie Bradshaw clones
Oh this.

All the childfree women who have careers, or travel, or have amazing hobbies.
Nope. Some of us just sit around eating biscuits*

Ah now. You forgot the designer handbags and other frivolities that we selfishly splurge on in an attempt to make our meaningless empty lives a bit better.

FadoFado · 03/08/2021 16:03

As for childless people being able to have more, cars, holidays etc, they really do need to do something fulfilling either in their career or on a voluntary basis. I have friends who couldn't have children and they have had a wonderful life, giving of themselves to others (unostentatiously), and been extremely happy.

Maybe that's more true of people who wanted but were unable to have kids? Plenty of people who just chose not to have kids just pootle about having a happy life without feeling the need to 'give of themselves'. As laudable as that is.

habibibibi · 03/08/2021 16:04

I was with you until the cars and holidays comment.

My childfree friends (some by choice, some by circumstance) lead fulfilling lives and it's not all about cars and holidays. Many are involved with children in other capacities through families, friends or voluntary work even if they don't have their own. Some have very fulfilling and demanding jobs and are doing very well or they do voluntary work or do hobbies. They have other relationships with spouse, family and friends which they can devote more time to.

Of course, you're entitled to speak about YOUR life and how you feel about it. But I suspect form your comment that it was actually qiute judgemental.

PhilippaBlake · 03/08/2021 16:05

This is one of my pet hates - when somebody says 'for me... (insert opinion/choice/preference here)' and other people then take offence and if you are commenting on their choices. It's so self-absorbed (of them, not you).

Of course you are not being unreasonable to feel as you feel and if you can't share that with your friends without them taking offence then what's the point of having them as friends?

SamVimes6 · 03/08/2021 16:06

People have different opinions, different ideals.
It doesn’t mean one is wrong!

GreenClock · 03/08/2021 16:09

I think that you’ve both been tactless perhaps, but that neither of you is “wrong”.

gannett · 03/08/2021 16:10

Tbh the "holidays and cars" comment is ironic because knowing I'd be child-free gave me the freedom to pursue a less financially stable career doing something I loved rather than heading down a reliably higher-earning route knowing I'd have to help provide for a family.

PurpleDaisies · 03/08/2021 16:11

I think what a child free life would be like, going travelling on a whim anywhere I wanted , nobody else to think about but me and my needs.

So as well as no children, you have also no job, no mortgage, family commitments or anything like that?

lynsey91 · 03/08/2021 16:13

If a woman said to me that life is pointless without children I would feel sorry for her. There is so much more to life than children.

If they make life so wonderful how come quite a lot of woman regret having them? I believe the figure is around 30% and that is the women that will actually admit to it.

What if you can't have children or what if you can and they don't make you happy?

Beckhamsmetatarsal · 03/08/2021 16:15

YANBU, they are. You're ok to think what you do and so are they. You've obviously touched on an insecurity of theirs for them to take it personally if you specifically said it for yourself. Them projecting is not your problem.

moonbedazzled · 03/08/2021 16:16

I think you were being a bit rude actually. They were trying to be kind by saying your life won't be over if you don't have children. When you express the idea that your life would be pointless if you didn't have children, it's inescapable to think that that's your opinion generally - that life is pointless without children.

I understand that this is a fraught time for you so you spoke without thinking and I wouldn't condemn you for that, but honestly childless people get a rough ride from society. I remember a report on TV about women having children later on life have a greater chance of breast cancer than those having them younger. Then as a throw away line at the end, the reporter said but these older women can console themselves that they have less chance of getting breast cancer than those who don't have any children. I was like WTF!! They hadn't even mentioned childless women in the report. And govt always talks about hardworking families, never hardworking couple or single people. Its like we're non-people, and yet we pay the largest proportion of our wages to supporting other people's children.

Oops, sorry. A bit of a rant there.

BlithePilgrim · 03/08/2021 16:17

Good post, @therocinante. And as someone who lived very happily childfree till I was 40, when I had DS, now 9, my life has neither more nor less ‘point’ or value than before.

YellowandGreenToBeSeen · 03/08/2021 16:18

As for childless people being able to have more, cars, holidays etc, they really do need to do something fulfilling either in their career or on a voluntary basis. I have friends who couldn't have children and they have had a wonderful life, giving of themselves to others (unostentatiously), and been extremely happy

I … words… fail…

Childless people really need to do something fulfilling in their career or by volunteering?! Are you kidding me?

Because it’s not enough to just ‘be’.

FadoFado · 03/08/2021 16:18

With regards to the OP's particular issue of course you're not wrong to say you'd be crushed if you didn't manage to have a family. But I think with so many of these things it comes down to tone and delivery. Maybe your friend felt her childfree lifestyle was being judged as being a bit sub-par even though that wasn't your intention.

Beckhamsmetatarsal · 03/08/2021 16:19

moonbedazzled- you are projecting. The OPs opinion isnt about you but the rant means this topic touches a nerve for you. That's not the fault of the OP, or anyone who holds this opinion.

If for example, I said life is pointless without having a lot of money, marriage, holidays etc it'd all be my opinion only based on what I like/want in my life and what I value. Same with kids.

Lottapianos · 03/08/2021 16:22

'I… words… fail…

Childless people really need to do something fulfilling in their career or by volunteering?! Are you kidding me?'

😂 The pious sanctimony is really quite something, eh? If only us childfree lot could be as saintly as the poor martyred parents. We can only dream! I used to get enraged by this kind of stuff, now I just laugh. It's just so ridiculous

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 03/08/2021 16:22

None of you are unreasonable but some topics are just very sensitive. I don't think your friends were being especially materialistic, they were trying to be comforting but they hit the wrong note. It's hard for them to hit the right note when they don't want children themselves and they haven't really experienced the feelings.

I did feel my life would be a bit pointless without children. I remember explaining that to DH when he wasn't sure if he wanted a family! Yes, if we hadn't conceived I would probably have eventually recovered from that feeling and found other points to life but it would have taken a lot of time and grieving first.

From now on, I would be extra careful what I said about it and who I discussed it with. It's easier to share these feelings with people in a similar situation. For the sake of the friendship and everybody's feelings I'd apologise but maybe decide the topic was off-limits with these friends, it's too easy on both sides to say something insensitive by accident.

userxx · 03/08/2021 16:23

@YellowandGreenToBeSeen Words fail me too. What the actal fuck!!!

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 03/08/2021 16:23

I think your desire to have children (which is absolutely fine and your right) has clouded your opinion of anyone who choses life without children.

Everyone is entitled to their own life and wants.

I've never wanted kids, but I would be offended if you suggested my life was all about 'holidays and cars'. And I would also feel as though you insinuated that my life was pointless.

I think perhaps the fact that they are both offended suggests that your language was wrong, even if your intent wasn't. And that you might need to apologise.