'Life empty without children'

[ncncncncncncncnc12]

I am married and really want a family. Two of my close are single - I think one would like children if she met the right person and one is very vocal about not wanting them and they ruin lives / relationships etc.

We are TTC and have had some set backs this year, which they know about.

Over the weekend we were talking and they said that even if it doesn't happen for us, I will still have a great life with my husband, having nice holidays and more money etc and it's nothing to be sad about. But actually, I would be very sad if it doesn't work out, I yearn to have a family. I said that of course I love my husband but we both really want to be parents and to me (not everyone) my life would feel a bit pointless without children.

It's caused huge offence and taken that I think their life is pointless. I dont think that, but yes for me, holidays and cars are not going to fill the strong urge I have to be a mother.

Who is BU?

[Datingandnoideahowto]

I think you basically told her her life was pointless as far as you’re concerned without kids.

It’s a bit insensitive really and I’d be offended.

[kikipie]

It’s a shame if you feel that a life without children is pointless. It’s anything but (child free by choice here) be more open to the possibility that your life may take a different form, and accept that others feel differently

[MrsTerryPratchett]

@Chikapu

holidays and cars are not going to fill the strong urge I have to be a mother

Ah yes because for us child free women it's all about the cars and holidays. What are you even talking about with that?
I'm child free by choice, my life isn't pointless or empty, I think you're genuinely lacking in imagination if you think it is.

It's the doubling down that's offensive.

It's not just that you believe YOUR life would be pointless, it's that you believe childless people fill their lives with frivolity and material things.

That is offensive.

[cadburyegg]

I think saying “my life is pointless without kids” is quite strong and I can understand why it might have caused a bit of offence. Remember that women who don’t have children by choice are often subjected to judgement and criticism about their choices. Btw I have 2 kids and I wouldn’t say that kind of thing.

The other stuff no one is being unreasonable. Different strokes for different folks

[FunMcCool]

No one is BU. You feel your life would be better with kids. Your friend feels her life is perfect without kids. Both are 100% entitled to want the life they choose. This world is made up of millions of different people. Different strokes for different folks.

[cinammonbuns]

@RedAndWhiteSpots I aheee with the second half of your comment but not the first. Why do you assume they are uncomfortable with not having children. It is perfectly reasonable for them to feel OP was insensitive but also be j’épousai with their decision.

Same for people who have one child and are pressured to have another unless their only child will be lonely. They often get offended when people imply they are depriving their child of something yet are happy with their decision to have one.

It’s so patronising to assume someone who says they don’t want children secretly does. Would you think the same about someone who said they wanted children - that they secretly didn’t?

[BlithePilgrim]

Look, she was trying to be positive about your setbacks in TTC and say that, should you not be able to have children, you will still find a way of having a fulfilling life you were insensitive in both flat-out rejecting that and throwing around platitudes about life being pointless without children. You may have meant your own singular, individual life, but that's not what she heard and frankly, people without children get that all the time, so it's not surprising they get narky.

I was happily childfree until I was 40, and if I had a fiver from everyone who'd come up with some variant on the pointlessness/selfishness /empty, cold, black-and-white etc etc of childfree lives, I wouldn't have had to pay into a pension plan. (More or less as soon as I'd given birth to DS, the same type of person started saying I'd better get a move on with a sibling, and started exactly the same selfishness stuff about having one child by choice. Who knew that having one child isn't enough? I suspect that, like people looking at the lives of the childfree, having one child looks too easy. )

[Moonbabysmum]

You can try to justify it by saying you were referring to 'my life' not 'life' but that's not how it would come across, and it still does imply that you think their lives are pointless.

You are rubbishing their lives.

[Zilla1]

If you were careful to say 'my life would feel a bit pointless without children.' and 'for me, holidays and cars are not going to fill the strong urge I have to be a mother' then YANBU and they ABVU. You've not judged them rather just set out your own current thinking. Do they have form for being dramatic if it's caused huge upset? It's not rocket science to think everyone has different preferences. Presumably you could have reacted equally negatively and felt judged about to their statements that they didn't want children and they ruin lives / relationships etc.'?

[Rheia1983]

I think there are countless things in life which can give it meaning, children being just one of them. However, I do think it is unreasonable to think or say that "if I don't have/become/achieve" a certain "person/position/thing", my life is pointless. Taken to the logical conclusion, this implies that life is worthless without that "person/position/thing" and should be ended.

Wtih that said, was it unreasonable for your friends to take offense at your statement? Perhaps, if you stated your position in a way that came across as judgy or patronising and you implied through tone or body language that children are indeed the point of life.

However, was it also unreasonable for your friends to say you shouldn't be sad if you do not have children? Yes. Sadness is part and parcel of a person not being to achieve their wishes and goals and also a part of life. So, it is unfair and unkind to tell anyone how they should feel about such a situation. Having more money or being able to afford more holidays does not cancel out grief and sadness over not being able to have children.

[Apeirogon]

YABU to describe a child free life as pointless. I understand that you intended to give an opinion about your own life, rather than a judgment on hers, but I'm not surprised she took it the wrong way and I think most people would.

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

It all just sounds a little "my wallet is too small for my fifties"

You have a lovely, great life. You want children, like a lot of people. If you cant have them you will still have what you have now.

Being unable to become a parent when you want to is incredibly painful. But it doesnt make what you have now pointless.

[EastWestWhosBest]

You say you’ve had set backs.
What will happen if you can’t have children?
To consider life without children pointless is a worrying way to be if it should turn out you can’t have them.

[AnneLovesGilbert]

Good luck ttc.

Given you know they feel differently it wouldn’t have hurt you to use a bit more tact. I’m not surprised they’re offended.

[Zilla1]

I have family members for whom having children were their adult focus. I have family members who actively didn't want children and who have been entirely focused on their professional career. I have women family members who have focused their adult lives on enjoyment and travelling without career or children. I have family members for whom creative activities (music, fine art) have been the focus of their lives. I have more family members who have muddled through with children and careers. None have (said they) felt other people's choices are pointless though might have felt this. None have (said they) felt judged by other people's choices though they again might have felt this. Feminism is arguably about choices while recognising those choices are constrained by society. If you spoke about your preferences and how you thought you would feel and someone has taken that as an attack on them then I'd argue that's in their head.

[Hadtocomment]

Your feelings are your feelings and of course it's not unreasonable to feel them although perhaps they might be temporary and it might be worth taking a wider view for your own sake as well as others. I think expressing them to others who don't have children could be unreasonable though. Whether you are talking about yourself or not sensitivity is about thinking about what things imply to others. There is a big difference between saying you would feel unfulfilled or that your life or any life is pointless if a person can't have kids. It's a bit like if someone is saying very negative things about themselves if they are in the same position as someone else. If you said you thought your life would be pointless if you failed to achieve some exam result and the person you were with had worse marks. Then surely it would be insensitive. I know that's a silly example but sensitivity is partly about thinking about the effect of what we say on others. If you say something extreme and negative in relation to something that someone else is also then of course that is insensitive. I think saying you would feel unfulfilled is different. It sounds more like something you want badly that is a big desire for you. But no implications about pointlessness. I say this as a woman with no kids. You don't offend me but I could see why your friend might feel very differently and I also think you shouldn't just assume things. You might one day be talking to someone who badly wants kids but can't and doesn't want to tell people. It just seems a very destructive thing to say for others as well as yourself and could in some circumstances even have a very negative effect on others which I'm sure is not the intent. I hope you achieve your dreams though OP!

[DaisyDozyDee]

You’re putting a lot of pressure on yourself and on the process of trying to conceive. It’s not healthy to invest your entire reason for living in one thing, particularly in something that is in many ways beyond your control.

[Greytminds]

I think it is very hurtful to your friends to suggest that a life without children is pointless and is probably worth a carefully worded apology.

I think you could phrase the sentiment that you want children very differently without putting down a childless/child free life. It’s hurtful to someone who thinks they might never get the chance to have children and it’s pretty damning of someone who decided not to have children and whose lives you’ve described as being only about ‘cars and holidays’. That comment really does suggest that you don’t think they have much depth as people!!

I think you also need to reflect on how you might derive happiness in other ways. It’s a huge burden to place on your children to assume they will render your otherwise ‘pointless’ life meaningful (paraphrasing your words here).

I do get the yearning for children, believe me. It took me 6 years, three rounds of IVF, three heartbreaking missed miscarriages at 5, 10, 11 weeks resulting in multiple surgeries. I had times where I couldn’t find joy in life, felt like the life I had seen for myself was disappearing and I could have absolutely been sucked into a black whole where I just plodded along being miserable. Instead, DH and I carried on doing special things, sharing experiences, celebrating our family as it was (DH, Ddog and I) and making sure that we were still really living. It was hard at times, but I can now remember most of that really hard time as being very happy despite the dark moments.

I now have a DD and pregnant with a second after another awful 16 week loss. Do I feel like my life has meaning now?! I wouldn’t say that it is any more meaningful if I’m totally honest. In fact, whilst I love my child intensely and she brings me so much joy, I would say that the general grind of being a parent is pretty tough, and the juggle of work, parenting and trying to snatch the odd moment to myself leaves very little time to do anything meaningful at all! That might be that I’m not someone who is all out mother - I like working and value my career, my friends, time to myself and travel. I value my identity as a person and my relationship with DH.

[gannett]

Child-free women hear variants on "life is pointless without kids" all the fucking time and often it is directed at them (even if sometimes wrapped up in more general wording, it's still intended as a dig). So I'm not surprised she took offence.

YANBU to feel how you feel - though personally I think it's quite sad if you really can't see a point to your life without children - but that word is particularly insensitive to use to child-free people, because it DOES sound like you're judging them.

[BeenThruMoreThanALilBit]

You meant well enough, but as you go through TTC, pregnancy, raising children, and generally growing up will probably realise that some things don’t need to be said.

Saying that YOUR life would be pointless to women who either want to have children but can’t (yet) or who have chosen not to have them….well, it’s just not necessary, is it?

[JorisBonson]

@gannett

Child-free women hear variants on "life is pointless without kids" all the fucking time and often it is directed at them (even if sometimes wrapped up in more general wording, it's still intended as a dig). So I'm not surprised she took offence.

YANBU to feel how you feel - though personally I think it's quite sad if you really can't see a point to your life without children - but that word is particularly insensitive to use to child-free people, because it DOES sound like you're judging them.

This is perfectly put.

If I have a pound for every time I've heard "oh you'll change your mind when..." I'd be a very rich woman.

[Louise5754]

I know my life would be pointless without kids. I don't work or go out or have hobbies due to autism and anxiety. I only get up in the morning to get my kids ready for school.

Both of my siblings are married. Neither wants kids. They have friends good careers nice cars and holidays. Even without kids I wouldn't have that.

[billy1966]

OP,

I hope it works out for you but if you do not want to upset people I really wouldn't say something like that.

You have stated in your opinion life is worthless with out children.

Yes, you were speaking about yourself but it was still a big general statement of your opinion.

Not kind IMO.

Better to say "I will be very sad if it doesn't happen for us, irrespective of our comfortable lifestyle".

Unless you want a big falling out, rephrase it and apologise.

[Persephoned]

Part of the problem is probably that women of child bearing age have a huge amount of societal pressure to have children whether they want them or not - and often hear it said that life is pointless or empty without children (indeed that’s what your title is and what comes up on the subject line in lists of posts on this site), which isn’t true and can be insulting or very painful for people to hear. While you may have intended it in terms of your own experience and what is important to you, it sounds as if it didn’t come across that way, and I think yab a bit u not to have a bit more tact and sensitivity. I think I might have been a bit upset in your friends shoes, though I’d perhaps more likely have been irritated and then felt sorry for you. It sounds as if you’ve been having a tough time though, and I really hope things work out for you.

[BountyIsUnderrated]

YABU in thinking life is empty without children.
If anything I could do more before I had DS.
Can't just go out to the pub/take the train to town on a whim, normally hope in laws can take him as he won't sit still so we barely go out anymore.
Can't go on holiday abroad as it would be a nightmare, can't totally relax/have a break at home so what's the point of taking that on holiday with us.
We only go on holiday locally as less planning/can just go home if we get fed up.
Have waaay less money as childcare costs hundreds and that's with grandparents twice a week and 2 half days.
Often times wonder what life would be like now without ds and sometimes wish I could go back!
Despite this we do love him to bits, childfree life or not both have their merits, it's not for everyone.