'Life empty without children'

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I am married and really want a family. Two of my close are single - I think one would like children if she met the right person and one is very vocal about not wanting them and they ruin lives / relationships etc.

We are TTC and have had some set backs this year, which they know about.

Over the weekend we were talking and they said that even if it doesn't happen for us, I will still have a great life with my husband, having nice holidays and more money etc and it's nothing to be sad about. But actually, I would be very sad if it doesn't work out, I yearn to have a family. I said that of course I love my husband but we both really want to be parents and to me (not everyone) my life would feel a bit pointless without children.

It's caused huge offence and taken that I think their life is pointless. I dont think that, but yes for me, holidays and cars are not going to fill the strong urge I have to be a mother.

Who is BU?

Some PPs on this thread are a great example of how foreign the idea of owning your own experience is to people –so much so that they can't conceive of separating a personal statement from a general one.

OP, you spoke about your own feelings and your friends couldn't hear that, for whatever reason.

You're not BU, AND I'd take this as a lesson to be extra vocal in the future about making it crystal clear that you're talking about how YOU feel about YOUR future, and you're clear that it'll be different for others.

It's a shame that sometimes we have to spell things like this out extra-loudly, but on sensitive subjects sometimes the rumble of emotion drowns out subtleties and they don't get heard.

OP, you spoke about your own feelings and your friends couldn't hear that, for whatever reason.

Isn't the same through for the OP though? Both she and her friend took offence at what the other said.

@Taoneusa

Tbh I think it’s a fairly majority view that creating a family is the most fulfilling aspect of life, alongside friendships and work.

Not true for everyone, not everyone is fulfilled by having children.

*'same true for the OP' not 'through'

I felt like there was a huge hole in my life before I had my DD but that's because I'd been broody for years. Now I have her my life is so so much harder and I often envy people who have just never had that urge and lead carefree lives. I think whether or not your life feels empty depends on how much you actually want children. It's different for everyone.

I think whether or not your life feels empty depends on how much you actually want children.

I think there is some truth in this. I don't think I wanted children as much as I thought I did. A lot of it was social conditioning and FOMO.

@FadoFado

OP, you spoke about your own feelings and your friends couldn't hear that, for whatever reason.

Isn't the same through for the OP though? Both she and her friend took offence at what the other said.

Perhaps.

Although I didn't read the OP as her having taken offence, particularly, more that she didn't feel heard.

I think the difference for me is that what OP said was about herself. What the friend said, on the other hand, was about OP.

When someone says "Oh, don't worry, you'll still have a lovely life" without acknowledging the reality of the discomfort you're in, it's a way of rejecting your reality and ignoring how you feel (and attempting to tell you how to feel rather than listening to what's true for you).

And that rejection (IMO) is hard to be on the receiving end of. When it happens to me, I feel belittled and ignored, and when I do it to other people, the consequences are rarely great

You've insinuated life in general is pointless without children. You're saying you said your life but the inference is there. Perhaps both of them are etc and you don't know. Perhaps one has had fertility issues you don't know. Me I would be sad you needed to have a child to make your life worthwhile. A child shouldn't be brought into the world to mend a broken person.

@Mantlemoose

You've insinuated life in general is pointless without children. You're saying you said your life but the inference is there. Perhaps both of them are etc and you don't know. Perhaps one has had fertility issues you don't know. Me I would be sad you needed to have a child to make your life worthwhile. A child shouldn't be brought into the world to mend a broken person.

No more than the friend insinuating that having children ruin lives and relationships though, surely?

Why is one allowed to go unchallenged but not the other?

Yanbu to feel as you do.

Sorry to hear about your mc

YUBU and I feel quite sorry for you that you’ve have such an unfulfilling life. It’s very sad.

I think you were a bit insensitive saying this to your friends.

Your comment was pretty rude and insensitive tbh. YANBU for feeling this way, but you shouldn’t say that to single/ childless friends, as it does imply that you think their lives are pointless. I know you said you were speaking for yourself but it still sounds insensitive and rude. If you had said you would personally feel “unfulfilled” that would have been better.

Bizawit
But on that logic, nobody should say anything about their their life in case their friends are incapable of comprehending that someone might talk about their OWN life using words that reflect their OWN feelings.

Why should people have to change the language that best reflects their feelings about their life circumstances because others look for offence?

@LolaSmiles

Bizawit But on that logic, nobody should say anything about their their life in case their friends are incapable of comprehending that someone might talk about their OWN life using words that reflect their OWN feelings.

Why should people have to change the language that best reflects their feelings about their life circumstances because others look for offence?

Amen.

@LolaSmiles

Bizawit But on that logic, nobody should say anything about their their life in case their friends are incapable of comprehending that someone might talk about their OWN life using words that reflect their OWN feelings.

Why should people have to change the language that best reflects their feelings about their life circumstances because others look for offence?

Erm no not at all. Totally fine to say it’s something she really wants for her life. But to say her life would be pointless without children- the inference is rude. No need to say that at all to single, childless friends; especially since one might not be childless entirely by choice. But either way it’s insensitive. Each to their own of course. People are free to be unkind and rude to others, but they shouldn’t be surprised when offence is taken!

But I don’t see it as rude at all. Rather, it was clearly her grief talking, as she’d had a miscarriage very recently. Surely, a true friend would be able to make allowances at a time like that?

Ordinarily, yes, it would be an insensitive thing to say.

Apologise and admit that you’ve become so self absorbed with your own life and so obsessed with having a baby that you clearly failed to recognise how thoughtless and hurtful your words were. Which they were.

But it goes both ways surely. Saying it not happening is nothing to be sad about isn’t very sensitive. Especially after a mc at 12 weeks after you’ve announced pregnancy.

It’s a difficult time, the op doesn’t know what will happen for sure and feeling like she does is understandable

I think it depends on the timing of what was said.

If you'd just lost a parent and someone said now you've got you're inheritance to go on holiday. Very insensitive.

If you'd lost your parent 6 months previously and were still upset and someone suggested spending some of your inheritance to improve your life because that's what your parent would want. Then that would not be insensitive, it would be someone trying to be helpful.

Of course their comment might still feel insensitive but sometimes you've got to make allowances for intent.

@LizzieW1969

But I don’t see it as rude at all. Rather, it was clearly her grief talking, as she’d had a miscarriage very recently. Surely, a true friend would be able to make allowances at a time like that?

Ordinarily, yes, it would be an insensitive thing to say.

Yes I agree that it sounds like grief talking and allowances should be made. Also it sounds like the friends comments were pretty insensitive too. Maybe they were trying to be helpful , but clearly what they said was misplaced/ badly judged.

Erm no not at all. Totally fine to say it’s something she really wants for her life. But to say her life would be pointless without children- the inference is rude. No need to say that at all to single, childless friends; especially since one might not be childless entirely by choice. But either way it’s insensitive. Each to their own of course. People are free to be unkind and rude to others, but they shouldn’t be surprised when offence is taken!

There is no inference at all, except what you're choosing to infer.

My friend is an incredible pianist and fully feels that's what she's made to do –she'd quite confidently say her life would feel pointless without being able to play.

And I can quite happily hear that without thinking she's saying MY life is pointless because I can just about manage Chopsticks on the piano, nor do I have any inclination to learn more.

And yes, before the outrage brigade jumps on the analogy, I am fully aware that a baby is not a piano.

It’s like someone saying “I hate package holidays, so boring!” in front of friends who love package holidays and go every year

Yes you are giving your opinion.
But it’s just thoughtless isn’t it

Erm no not at all. Totally fine to say it’s something she really wants for her life. But to say her life would be pointless without children- the inference is rude. No need to say that at all to single, childless friends; especially since one might not be childless entirely by choice. But either way it’s insensitive. Each to their own of course. People are free to be unkind and rude to others, but they shouldn’t be surprised when offence is taken!

There is no inference unless you're someone who actively seeks to find offence though. Nobody is being rude or unkind.

Person A makes a statement about how THEY feel about an element of THEIR life based on THEIR experiences and THEIR aspirations and THEIR feelings
If Person B hears Person A talking about A's feelings and does mental gymnastics to decide that obviously A is rude, incentive, has been offensive then they're probably a self-obsessed drama llama.

It’s like someone saying “I hate package holidays, so boring!” in front of friends who love package holidays and go every year

Yes you are giving your opinion.
But it’s just thoughtless isn’t it
Not really. Somehow me and my friends manage to discuss the fact our holidays look very different and about the fact we'd not enjoy some things that each other do.
I couldn't imagine taking offence that someone said they'd not enjoy my type of holiday or would find it boring because they're not me and should be able to discuss the topic without having to think "oh crap, talking holidays with Lola, I better watch what I say in case she decides my holiday preferences are a slight on her as a person".