'Life empty without children'

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I am married and really want a family. Two of my close are single - I think one would like children if she met the right person and one is very vocal about not wanting them and they ruin lives / relationships etc.

We are TTC and have had some set backs this year, which they know about.

Over the weekend we were talking and they said that even if it doesn't happen for us, I will still have a great life with my husband, having nice holidays and more money etc and it's nothing to be sad about. But actually, I would be very sad if it doesn't work out, I yearn to have a family. I said that of course I love my husband but we both really want to be parents and to me (not everyone) my life would feel a bit pointless without children.

It's caused huge offence and taken that I think their life is pointless. I dont think that, but yes for me, holidays and cars are not going to fill the strong urge I have to be a mother.

Who is BU?

Look, OP, sure you'd be dissapointed if it won't happen for you and you're entitled to your feelings and no doubt grief you would feel.

But don't let it rob you of the possibility of having a good life. Your life is not pointless just because it turned out quite different from what you wanted.

God a lot of people don't know what to say about miscarriage , you end up hearing some total crap like "it just wasn't meant to be" , and "oh well you'll have more money for holidays" is in the same vein - essentially insensitive , but driven by the need to say something, anything. I don't know why it's so difficult for people to just say "I'm really sorry for your loss" and be sympathetic. They seem to think they need to explain miscarriage away and it comes across like they are minimising it. Made me really angry and feel even worse at the time of my loss which was also post 12 weeks.

It's best to talk to someone who has been through it themselves. It's very isolating when noone understands. You could try the miscarriage boards on here or I'm happy for you to DM me if you like.

As for your friends, even if they thought your view was insensitive they should have let it slide as driven by grief. They possibly don't understand how much you are still grieving. TTC can become all consuming sadly , and if it didn't work out , yes you could have a good life eventually but they'd be a lot of emotions to work through before you could accept your life without children. It wouldn't be as quick or easy as your friend was trying to make out. You could try and explain this to them and that it wasn't a judgement on their lives. I'm not sure whether you will be able to get your anti child friend to understand this
though. I probably wouldn't discuss this with her again TBH.

.

@Aloethere

That's crazy. How often is constantly? I'm mid 30s too with 2 kids and who are teenagers/almost teenager now so far from the all-consuming baby days and they never really come up in any conversations, I can't imagine having constant conversations about them so I find it wild that you have to have constant conversations about not having any. How do these constant conversations and judgements come about? I can't imagine saying on a weekly basis to a coworker for example 'changed your mind about having kids yet?'

‘Constantly’ I suppose is hyperbolic, but it is very regularly commented upon. I am quite sensitive to all the throwaway comments people make, because I often think, ‘What if I’ve just told you I don’t want children, to hide the fact that I can’t have them?’.

I work in education and have been told on a number of different occasions by different colleagues that me not having children is a waste because I am ‘so good with kids’.

I’m at an age where many of my friends/siblings are having children or TTC so lots of, ‘you’ll be next’ or ‘this is good practice for you’, type comments when I’m holding a baby and cooing over it. I have also found that once someone becomes a mother for the first time, they start slipping in comments they didn’t make before about how I’ll change my mind.

My MIL used to be very accepting when DH and I said we wouldn’t have children. Now she watches me closely with our toddler niece and makes lots of comments about me having one (always when DH is out of earshot).

Certainly, I have had far more comments made about my choice not to have children than I feel is appropriate. I have a biological urge to have children and when society is regularly questioning you, or telling you you are wrong in your decision, it makes you doubt yourself. I don’t want to be pressured into doing something that I know, ultimately I could do, but isn’t what I actually want.

@Ohbeeryme

Your recent posts read completely differently to your first post.

It does doesn’t it Often happens when majority disagree with The OP

I think you were the more insensitive one to be honest.

How do you know she doesn't have kids because she knows she can't have them and doesn't want to adopt? She may have made her peace with that, then along you come saying life is meaningless without kids.

In all honesty, I think my life would be meaningless if I had children. I wouldn't get to continue the sport I love, all my money would go on the child, wouldn't get any nice holidays ever again no doubt. My life would be based around the child and nothing else. So I'm not having one, plus this world is fucked, why would I bring a kid into it?

@SmokeyDevil

I think you were the more insensitive one to be honest.

How do you know she doesn't have kids because she knows she can't have them and doesn't want to adopt? She may have made her peace with that, then along you come saying life is meaningless without kids.

In all honesty, I think my life would be meaningless if I had children. I wouldn't get to continue the sport I love, all my money would go on the child, wouldn't get any nice holidays ever again no doubt. My life would be based around the child and nothing else. So I'm not having one, plus this world is fucked, why would I bring a kid into it?

I very much doubt that anyone with children think the world is “fucked”

I sure as hell don’t

@Marmitemarinaded @Ohbeeryme how do they 'read' differently?

Other than I gave more information as apparently saying we'd had setbacks with TTC wasn't indication enough of what has happened.

I think when you are TTC and it is not going well, this is one of the emotions you feel. I think the anxiety grabs onto your worst thoughts and bangs a very loud drum in your mind.

I remember when I was going through TTC and then fertility treatment. It was hell. I remember constantly thinking that on a base level my job as a woman was to have a child and that I was failing. I remember thinking what was the point of my existence if I couldn't do that? It was all very depressing. Of course, I am not saying any of this is true. It is just how I felt.

Every person is different. I used to have a great job, lots of fab holidays and a great life. I swapped it for 2 DC. I am happier with my DC.

I think you need to keep these types of comments to yourself. I know a few women without DC who wanted them and I wouldn't say anything like that to them.

@Marmitemarinaded

I sure as hell don’t

Don't then? Doesn't bother me.

Personally I’d just apologise.

Something really big has to happen for me to actually continue an argument or disagreement with someone, usually I’m happy to just take it on the chin!

I’d say something like ‘I just wanted to apologise if you felt I was suggesting that I felt your life was pointless. I meant that I’d personally feel my life was pointless as I’ve always just known I’d wanted children. This was really poorly worded by me and the last thing I wanted was to upset you. I completely respect and support the fact that you don’t want children and understand that it’s just as valid as me deciding I want children, again I really am sorry and I hope we can put this behind us’

@SmokeyDevil

Is it depressing to live life thinking the world is “fucked”?
Genuine question

[quote ncncncncncncncnc12]**@Marmitemarinaded* @Ohbeeryme* how do they 'read' differently?

Other than I gave more information as apparently saying we'd had setbacks with TTC wasn't indication enough of what has happened.[/quote]
Because a TTC “setback” and a miscarriage aren’t the same.

You did conceive. But had a miscarriage at 12 weeks (for which I’m very sorry)

I don’t anyone would assume a OP was referring to a 12 week miscarriage as a TTC “setback”

Something really big has to happen for me to actually continue an argument or disagreement with someone, usually I’m happy to just take it on the chin!
Like a miscarriage of a much wanted baby then your friend says "at least you can go on more holidays" in response to your grief?
Why should OP have to take that on the chin? Isn't life giving her enough of a kicking right now without giving her friends permission to add to it?

Increasingly sounding like tit for tat to me

You were hurt by what friends insensitively said the holidays etc
So you took a swipe

[quote Marmitemarinaded]@SmokeyDevil

Is it depressing to live life thinking the world is “fucked”?
Genuine question[/quote]
No I just don't bother concerning myself with anything like trying to save it. Live my life how I want and enjoy it while it lasts. My generation is probably the last to be able to enjoy that luxury, and even that isn't great as my retirement is probably going to be shite. It will be nothing like the retirements some people currently have at least. I'll probably have to work until at least 70, and after that live frugally or keep working until I die. More and more people can't afford to buy a house, your children therefore are extremely unlikely to be able to buy so will be renting their whole lives, and those prices go up as well but wages don't.

But I don't fret about it, what will happen, will happen. I am just enjoying my life. Kids would also mean I couldn't, so double benefit to not bothering.

I don't think life is necessarily "fucked" but I do think its going to get harder to provide a high standard of life and it'll be the minority who dont struggle with housing, finding jobs and have financial and mental health difficulties as a result.

I think its something to be mindful of, people who opt out of parenting may do it as they know the challenges going forward are very real and difficult. If you choose to have children then it means you plan ahead for those challenges, push towards good careers, teach creativity and resilience, possibly save up if possible to assist with deposits/training/additional education.

The decision to have children should factor that in. I want a child and I will likely have one, but I have considered how tough the future may get and know it is a risk. Some people just may feel that risk is not something they are comfortable with.

@Mreggsworth

I don't think life is necessarily "fucked" but I do think its going to get harder to provide a high standard of life and it'll be the minority who dont struggle with housing, finding jobs and have financial and mental health difficulties as a result.

I think its something to be mindful of, people who opt out of parenting may do it as they know the challenges going forward are very real and difficult. If you choose to have children then it means you plan ahead for those challenges, push towards good careers, teach creativity and resilience, possibly save up if possible to assist with deposits/training/additional education.

The decision to have children should factor that in. I want a child and I will likely have one, but I have considered how tough the future may get and know it is a risk. Some people just may feel that risk is not something they are comfortable with.

Some parents don't even plan ahead in how they are going to afford food for their children, but you expect them to think forward enough for home ownership? Most of them won't even own their own homes anyway. The people who will become parents in the future have a lower chance of owning a home themselves, they won't be able to afford to get their kids a home or anything really.

The rich are fine. The average and poor are screwed.

[quote Goatinthegarden]@Aloethere

That's crazy. How often is constantly? I'm mid 30s too with 2 kids and who are teenagers/almost teenager now so far from the all-consuming baby days and they never really come up in any conversations, I can't imagine having constant conversations about them so I find it wild that you have to have constant conversations about not having any. How do these constant conversations and judgements come about? I can't imagine saying on a weekly basis to a coworker for example 'changed your mind about having kids yet?'

‘Constantly’ I suppose is hyperbolic, but it is very regularly commented upon. I am quite sensitive to all the throwaway comments people make, because I often think, ‘What if I’ve just told you I don’t want children, to hide the fact that I can’t have them?’.

I work in education and have been told on a number of different occasions by different colleagues that me not having children is a waste because I am ‘so good with kids’.

I’m at an age where many of my friends/siblings are having children or TTC so lots of, ‘you’ll be next’ or ‘this is good practice for you’, type comments when I’m holding a baby and cooing over it. I have also found that once someone becomes a mother for the first time, they start slipping in comments they didn’t make before about how I’ll change my mind.

My MIL used to be very accepting when DH and I said we wouldn’t have children. Now she watches me closely with our toddler niece and makes lots of comments about me having one (always when DH is out of earshot).

Certainly, I have had far more comments made about my choice not to have children than I feel is appropriate. I have a biological urge to have children and when society is regularly questioning you, or telling you you are wrong in your decision, it makes you doubt yourself. I don’t want to be pressured into doing something that I know, ultimately I could do, but isn’t what I actually want.[/quote]
My MIL did this with me told only the whole of my H’s family would watch me with any kid, like a hawk. It was fucking hideous. The comments were constant. And then my inlaws progressed to randomly touching my fucking stomach. It absolutely sickens me that they thought that that was in any way ok to do. Absolute maniacs. All it did was make me withdraw entirely from any family event on their side. A move for which I am not forgiven. 🤷🏼‍♀️ But I cannot understand why people feel they can get involved with our wombs, and why they feel they have some sort of right to comment on them?

Also, some women (please note ‘some’) that I have encountered have taken it extremely personally when I have said I don’t want children. It’s so strange. They seem to take it as a personal attack on their desire to have kids. 😳 I don’t feel attacked when they say they do, so why does my decision not to make them so angry?

Is it just a highly emotive subject? And just for info, it’s not something I routinely announce or say in response to anyone else’s remarks about wanting them, I’ll only share if directly asked. Which I frequently am.

I'm childless, I can't drive so don't have a car, and I'm not a huge fan of hot weather so don't holiday much. I must be the most pointless woman on Earth.

@AudacityBaby

I'm childless, I can't drive so don't have a car, and I'm not a huge fan of hot weather so don't holiday much. I must be the most pointless woman on Earth.

You must have £££ in the bank though surely.

Joking.

@AudacityBaby

I'm childless, I can't drive so don't have a car, and I'm not a huge fan of hot weather so don't holiday much. I must be the most pointless woman on Earth.

As pointed out on this thread you must do some volunteer work.

I do have money. No volunteer work though - I work too many hours... oh god I'm the dreaded career woman!!!

I don't think either side is being unreasonable. I think you just need to be clear that you just think that 'your' life would feel pointless without children. That is a valid viewpoint, as it is your life and only you would know how it would feel for you to not have children.

I don't have children. I went through a very difficult phase accepting that. During that phase, to be honest I would have been quite sensitive on this topic and easily hurt by other people's remarks. I am fine now and actually on-balance happy it has worked out this way for me, for a variety of reasons.

Now, I would not take offence at what you said but that is because I am at peace with the fact that I don't have children. I would actually just feel sad for someone who felt that their life would be pointless without children - not in a patronising way but because I understand the inner turmoil they must be going through.