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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

'Life empty without children'

410 replies

ncncncncncncncnc12 · 03/08/2021 14:32

I am married and really want a family. Two of my close are single - I think one would like children if she met the right person and one is very vocal about not wanting them and they ruin lives / relationships etc.

We are TTC and have had some set backs this year, which they know about.

Over the weekend we were talking and they said that even if it doesn't happen for us, I will still have a great life with my husband, having nice holidays and more money etc and it's nothing to be sad about. But actually, I would be very sad if it doesn't work out, I yearn to have a family. I said that of course I love my husband but we both really want to be parents and to me (not everyone) my life would feel a bit pointless without children.

It's caused huge offence and taken that I think their life is pointless. I dont think that, but yes for me, holidays and cars are not going to fill the strong urge I have to be a mother.

Who is BU?

OP posts:
CandidaAlbicans2 · 04/08/2021 14:32

If you think your life would be pointless without children you're seriously lacking in imagination or think that life is only about passing your genes on. There's a huge amount we can do for the benefit of others and society which doesn't depend on whether we have kids or not.

PurpleDaisies · 04/08/2021 14:40

@CandidaAlbicans2

If you think your life would be pointless without children you're seriously lacking in imagination or think that life is only about passing your genes on. There's a huge amount we can do for the benefit of others and society which doesn't depend on whether we have kids or not.
Come on. Not having kids is about much more than not passing your genes on. Where’s your imagination in realising that it has a massive impact on what you thought your life would be?
CounsellorTroi · 04/08/2021 14:43

It does seem a bit taboo to suggest that you can be happy without children even if you wanted them and couldn't/didn't have them. Like @UnrivaledJoyofStarGazing I feel that things worked out for the best for me.

Youseethethingis · 04/08/2021 14:49

I didn't want children for the benefit of others or society, what an odd thing to say Confused
I wanted them because of the fun and joy and love I thought they would bring into my life. I underestimated how much they would bring, if anything.
However I'm not so limited in my imagination that I can't see perfectly well why my own best friend (apart from telling me what she would call her daughter if she had one the thick end of 20 years ago) has never shown or felt the slightest inclination to have her own babies.
People are different is all. My amazing weekend with my family would be her idea of hell. 🤷🏻‍♀️

userxx · 04/08/2021 15:05

@AudacityBaby

I do have money. No volunteer work though - I work too many hours... oh god I'm the dreaded career woman!!!
You clearly need to volunteer to feel some kind of purpose. Sack your job off and get your arse down to the local cat shelter :)
AudacityBaby · 04/08/2021 15:06

@userxx My house feels like the local cat shelter... oh god I'm the dreaded career woman cat lady!!!

Louise5754 · 04/08/2021 15:36

@AudacityBaby

I'm childless, I can't drive so don't have a car, and I'm not a huge fan of hot weather so don't holiday much. I must be the most pointless woman on Earth. Shock
Again she said her life would feel pointless without kids not everyone else's should. We get you're happy you don't have kids the op isn't.
shivawn · 04/08/2021 15:41

I don't think you were being unreasonable, they sound quite oversensitive. I do believe that for some people who really yern for children your statement is true. I didn't want children for years and people would say things to me like I'd never know true joy until I had kids....I just laughed it off.

UnrivaledJoyofStarGazing · 04/08/2021 15:57

It make me sad though that woman argue with each other about this sort of stuff. For some women the thought of never having children is soul destroying, they can't help that. For other woman the thought of having children is soul destroying, they can't help that either. There are tonnes of us in between, unsure, uncertain, afraid of what will happen if we do, afraid of what will happen if we don't. It is rarely based upon cars, holidays abroad, having a lie or who will join us for Sunday lunch when we are old.

There are no right or wrong ways to feel about this subject. It is often a process, how you feel right now is not necessarily how you will feel later in life. We should be supportive rather than reactive and judgemental.

RevolvingPivot · 04/08/2021 16:00

@UnrivaledJoyofStarGazing

It make me sad though that woman argue with each other about this sort of stuff. For some women the thought of never having children is soul destroying, they can't help that. For other woman the thought of having children is soul destroying, they can't help that either. There are tonnes of us in between, unsure, uncertain, afraid of what will happen if we do, afraid of what will happen if we don't. It is rarely based upon cars, holidays abroad, having a lie or who will join us for Sunday lunch when we are old.

There are no right or wrong ways to feel about this subject. It is often a process, how you feel right now is not necessarily how you will feel later in life. We should be supportive rather than reactive and judgemental.

👏👏👏👏
BlithePilgrim · 04/08/2021 16:40

There are tonnes of us in between, unsure, uncertain, afraid of what will happen if we do, afraid of what will happen if we don't. It is rarely based upon cars, holidays abroad, having a lie or who will join us for Sunday lunch when we are old.

Yes, I think that's the key point that gets too often overlooked. Some people have utterly wanted children for as long as they can remember. Some people have known for as long as they can remember that they don't want children with a similar clarity and conviction. But for quite a lot of other people, it's a difficult and fraught decision, something to be pondered and worried about for quite some time, and not a straightforward yes/no.

And not often the kind of patronising bollocks women without children still too often get 'Oh, you'll change your mind when you're older!' as if broodiness hits all thirtysomething women alike like a tidal wave but a genuinely major life decision about what you want that life to be like, where you have to weigh up pros and cons about something that, by its nature, you can't experience until or unless you do it.

And I also get cross with the frequent riposte on here to posts about trying to decide whether or not to have a child that if you're ambivalent, you shouldn't bother, with the implication that if you have to give it any thought, parenthood is not for you.

It's a huge life decision -- it's hardly surprising that it's not a straightforward yes or no for many people, and it's certainly not any indication that if you haven't had ovaries screaming out for babies since puberty you shouldn't have a child.

What I tend to say on threads from people trying to make up their minds is that I don't recognise anything from a lot of the threads about motherhood on here, because I'm an individual who is mother to her own individual child in her own individual circumstances. There's no standard experience of parenthood. You will do it your own way, and if remaining at the top of your field in work/continuing to run marathons/going to festivals/needing time alone/travelling/living a life not exclusively defined by motherhood in whatever way is important to you, you will find a way to make it work. It is in most cases very possible to combine ordinary parenthood with other stuff.

CandidaAlbicans2 · 04/08/2021 20:06

I expressed myself clumsily and can see why my post didn't come over quite as I hoped. What I meant was if we go right back to our basic animal side, then the point of life is to mate and pass the genes on. Oh, and to be food for other animals. Just like the whole purpose of viruses is to mutate and survive. Of course we've evolved to think a little more deeply about life since then, to be far more emotional, but that's the bottom line.

Also, that if someone feels their life is pointless if they don't have children I disagree. I'd hope that the aim of parenting is to raise well adjusted and pleasant adults, which is the "benefit to society" I was thinking of. But if someone can't/won't have children they can still leave a positive mark on society in other ways, eg volunteer work, mentoring, etc. which can give their life some purpose and a point.

EastWestWhosBest · 04/08/2021 20:37

What is this obsession with women without children bloody volunteering?

I shall ask my male child free friends if anyone has ever suggested to them that they should volunteer.

Porcupineintherough · 04/08/2021 20:41

I live my kids but I take umbrage at the idea that my life would be pointless without them. That's a pretty offensive choice of words tbh. Maybe keep those thoughts private.

LawnFever · 06/08/2021 08:20

@CandidaAlbicans2

I expressed myself clumsily and can see why my post didn't come over quite as I hoped. What I meant was if we go right back to our basic animal side, then the point of life is to mate and pass the genes on. Oh, and to be food for other animals. Just like the whole purpose of viruses is to mutate and survive. Of course we've evolved to think a little more deeply about life since then, to be far more emotional, but that's the bottom line.

Also, that if someone feels their life is pointless if they don't have children I disagree. I'd hope that the aim of parenting is to raise well adjusted and pleasant adults, which is the "benefit to society" I was thinking of. But if someone can't/won't have children they can still leave a positive mark on society in other ways, eg volunteer work, mentoring, etc. which can give their life some purpose and a point.

Why does not having children mean women need to volunteer? Ffs it’s such a sexist position.

Why is volunteering the only way to ‘leave a positive mark’ and give life purpose?

Why can’t women just live their lives fulfilled for themselves, through friends, work, art, fun, enjoying their lives putting themselves at the centre of their world?

It’s all part of the bizarre concept that not having children is ‘selfish’, which it isn’t, it’s a perfectly valid choice or for some people (like me) not a choice I made myself but one I’ve had to come to terms with.

But why do women’s lives need to be dictated by what they can do for other people/society, and be judged if they just put themselves first - it’s not ‘selfish’ when men do that.

I don’t need to validate my existence by volunteering to give my life purpose, women don’t need to apologise for their existence by paying penance through volunteering.

Why does this concept prevail that women are only here on this planet to give something to other people, that they can’t just ‘be’ and they have to be giving something/their time/their energy to some kind of greater good?

There a million ways life can have purpose and point without children and without the pressure of society feeling as women if we don’t have children we should put our own selves on the back burner because it’s somehow more important to give give give.

Nobody ever has this expectation of childless men, they can just live their lives as they please.

LawnFever · 06/08/2021 08:28

@CandidaAlbicans2

If you think your life would be pointless without children you're seriously lacking in imagination or think that life is only about passing your genes on. There's a huge amount we can do for the benefit of others and society which doesn't depend on whether we have kids or not.
Why is it, that if women don’t have children then immediately they should be benefiting others or giving something back, why is a woman only of value to society if she’s putting herself second?
Marmitemarinaded · 06/08/2021 08:31

I have children

I have a good job, friends, a wonderful family, love running and sport and socialising. Go on spectacular holidays!

But yep…. If I didn’t have children, I honestly think my life would be, well… yes, a bit pointless!

EastWestWhosBest · 06/08/2021 08:39

@Marmitemarinaded

I have children

I have a good job, friends, a wonderful family, love running and sport and socialising. Go on spectacular holidays!

But yep…. If I didn’t have children, I honestly think my life would be, well… yes, a bit pointless!

But don’t you see how even you saying your life would be pointless without children is offensive to childless/free people? By saying that you are saying that without children life is pointless.
CounsellorTroi · 06/08/2021 08:47

*Why does not having children mean women need to volunteer? Ffs it’s such a sexist position.

Why is volunteering the only way to ‘leave a positive mark’ and give life purpose?

Why can’t women just live their lives fulfilled for themselves, through friends, work, art, fun, enjoying their lives putting themselves at the centre of their world?

It’s all part of the bizarre concept that not having children is ‘selfish’, which it isn’t, it’s a perfectly valid choice or for some people (like me) not a choice I made myself but one I’ve had to come to terms with.

But why do women’s lives need to be dictated by what they can do for other people/society, and be judged if they just put themselves first - it’s not ‘selfish’ when men do that.

I don’t need to validate my existence by volunteering to give my life purpose, women don’t need to apologise for their existence by paying penance through volunteering.

Why does this concept prevail that women are only here on this planet to give something to other people, that they can’t just ‘be’ and they have to be giving something/their time/their energy to some kind of greater good?

There a million ways life can have purpose and point without children and without the pressure of society feeling as women if we don’t have children we should put our own selves on the back burner because it’s somehow more important to give give give.

Nobody ever has this expectation of childless men, they can just live their lives as they please.*

Bravo. It’s this view of women as primarily nurturers and caregivers. The view that even if a woman doesn’t have children she must be a frustrated mother.

Marmitemarinaded · 06/08/2021 08:51

@EastWestWhosBest

** But don’t you see how even you saying your life would be pointless without children is offensive to childless/free people?
By saying that you are saying that without children life is pointless.**

Absolutely.
I would never say it in RL

On an anonymous chat forum? Sure

userxx · 06/08/2021 09:09

@Marmitemarinaded

I have children

I have a good job, friends, a wonderful family, love running and sport and socialising. Go on spectacular holidays!

But yep…. If I didn’t have children, I honestly think my life would be, well… yes, a bit pointless!

I find that quite sad really. I suppose it depends how strong the desire to reproduce is, whether or not that is the point of your existence.

Youseethethingis · 06/08/2021 09:18

Why is it sad that what gives one individual the most joy in purpose is different than what another person might find?
Why must anyone feel sad for anyone that is happy? Confused

CounsellorTroi · 06/08/2021 09:26

@Youseethethingis

Why is it sad that what gives one individual the most joy in purpose is different than what another person might find? Why must anyone feel sad for anyone that is happy? Confused
Well not everyone can have children. So if someone feels that the one thing that would give them the most joy in life is the one thing they can’t have, and they feel unable to take any joy from anything else life has to offer, then that is sad.
userxx · 06/08/2021 09:26

I find it sad that someone would think their life is pointless just because they didn't have children. Not hard to understand is it?

Porcupineintherough · 06/08/2021 09:28

@CounsellorTroi you have a very altruistic view of volunteering. Most people - men and women- volunteer because they get something from it, just not money. It's not some great saintly act.

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