Please give it to me straight - am I a bad parent?

[NCJuly2021]

Posting on AIBU for traffic and also because there is a question of whether I’m reasonable or not.

I’m a FTM, to a nearly 4 month old. I do the majority of childcare. I exclusively breastfeed so since birth I have done all night feeds and wake ups. DS wakes between 3 and 5 times every night (plan to sleep train when he’s a little older). When DS was a newborn, DH helped for a couple of weeks with the night time nappy changes but then we slept in a different room because I realised I needed the TV on to get me through the night feeds (ie to stop me falling asleep whilst DS is on the breast). After a couple of weeks we came back to the bedroom and since then it’s just me who does all the night work.

It’s also just me who looks after baby Mondays to Fridays. DH will watch for 10 minutes every now and then in the mornings so I can shower, but that’s maybe once every couple of weeks. He also will watch him for 10 minutes in the evening so I can eat my dinner and then DS is back to me. DH has a very demanding job and he’s wfh but works very long hours.

On weekends, DH is very hands on with DS. I lie in on both days (DH is a natural early riser), he takes DS for walks so I can have some me time and we share looking after DS.

Re housework, we have a cleaner for cleaning, I do 80% of the laundry, and cooking is generally 60 / 40 to me.

When DS was small, he would usually go down for the night at 1am. We’ve now brought that forward to around 9.30 to 10pm and that’s where I’m happy with. Means we don’t wake up too early the next day, and DS isn’t alone for too long in the bedroom before I come to bed.

DH, however, is of the opinion that DS should be going to bed at 7-8pm, simply because that’s what babies do. My issue with that is purely selfish - I don’t want to wake up at 6am in the mornings and I don’t want to go to bed at 9pm either.

The issue is there have been 3 times I’ve been out late with DS and I end up like feeling the worst parent ever.

Once, I was at a friend’s house and left at 10.30pm.

The second I was at my parent’s house and left late, which meant I travelled on the train at 9pm.

The third was tonight, when I met a friend for dinner at 7pm and got home at 10pm.

Apart from those 3 times, I’m home with DS late evenings and the other very few times I have met friends, they come round to our home or we’ve met for lunch in the day.

So each time, DH has complained about DS being out late and I feel like an absolutely terrible parent. Honestly, I feel like shit. I need that time with friends to feel like myself but after DH comments about the time, I end up feeling like I’m neglecting my child. The way I see it, DS is still small and will fall sleep anywhere, but when he’s a few months older, he will need more of a routine and rigidity in his bed time but for now, it’s not the end of the world if his bedtime is 9.30 or he’s out and not in bed until 10.30pm.

Is that a normal way of approaching things or am I actually just a really bad and selfish parent? What is normal for a 4 month old?

Thank you for reading if you got this far.

I was so upset that my first baby didn’t settle until between 9:30 and 11 when he was 3/4 months old and convinced it was all my fault and he should be in bed by 7, a few months later it naturally came forward by a couple of hours. It was because of people’s expectations around the 7pm bedtime that I felt that I was doing it all wrong, he’s older now and it’s all fine. A neighbour told me that I would never get him to sleep if I kept bringing him home so late… I didn’t ask her! Please enjoy yourself where you can and well done for getting out and about so much with a young baby, it’s hard to do that and if you’re happy, the baby will be!

At 4 months I didn’t care about a routine. They can sleep in the train, in the pram, in the sling. It’s not necessary to be in bed with a story at 7pm if it makes you feel stuck in the house.
At that age we would put baby in the pram and go out for late evening meals. A few months later you might not be able to do this anymore, but if it works for you now it’s great.

Babies are very portable and sleep lots when small. I took my baby out and about lots in the early days.

You’re doing all the donkey work with the baby so sleep times needs to work for you. You could always move the sleep so it’s 9-8 as a compromise. The only time you might need to reassess things is when you’ve school or work to get to

I think there’s no right or wrong here, you have to do what’s right for you and baby. And if that means taking him with you and having a later night then so be it. Personally, I couldn’t have done that. I love a bedtime routine and with 2 children now it’s been a saviour. I exclusively breastfed but I would always give one bottle of formula at bedtime so it gave me a bit of freedom if I needed/wanted to go out. We didn’t have a routine till about 3-4 months. But after that it’s always been bath, feed and bed and both children are asleep by 7. This gives us an evening and also the freedom to go out.
But like I say, it’s what works for you. You are the main carer of the baby, unless your dh wants to take the baby for the evening and settle him down for bed at 7 whilst you go out then let him crack on! But otherwise you carry on doing what works for you. Once baby is a bit older and less reliable to sleep whilst out, you might change your mind so enjoy it whilst you can.

The OP has said in her first post that her baby goes to bed late because that suits her.

That is fine - but it is a bit annoying that those of us with babies with earlier bed times have been labelled as repressed brits wanting to keep our babies separate. I went to bed at 8 for months because that’s when ds went to bed (and I was bloody tired but that’s by the by!)

Enjoy him being little. You sound like a wonderful parent. Everyone always has different views on parenting and your routine works for both you and him. As he gets a bit older his bedtime will gradually come forwards. I learnt to go with the flow far more with my second and he slept on me in the evenings until I went to bed until he was at least 6 months old. Sometimes I’d have friends over or do something in the evening and if he’s breastfed it makes sense to take him with you. Babies aren’t automatically programmed to go to bed at 7pm and as he gets older he’ll gradually settle into an earlier bedtime follow your baby not the idea of a set routine that we are told we must follow. Enjoy this time where you have the flexibility and he’s happy to sleep anywhere time out with friends is so important for your wellbeing.

You do all the night wakings, all the feeding and all the caring (been given a lie in at weekends isn’t much really)
So you get to decide how to organise your day.

And your DH certainly has no say on how you live your life, when you go to bed or get up etc…

Tell him he will be able to have a say when he is the one to get up in the night and do the looking after said child.

DH will watch for 10 minutes every now and then in the mornings so I can shower, but that’s maybe once every couple of weeks. He also will watch him for 10 minutes in the evening so I can eat my dinner and then DS is back to me

Does your husband not want to spend time with his son? You're doing nothing wrong OP. The real question is why is your husband so fucking useless?

I don’t necessarily believe all babies need a routine. Babies are growing and changing on a daily basis. To me it’s much more important to be flexible and respond to there needs. Some days they’re going through a growth spurt and are hungrier, other days they’ve been more active and are more tired. Some days they’re teething and don’t want to eat as much. Being too stuck to a routine isn’t helpful. They need to be nurtured.

My first second not so much went to 'bed at 7-8 at that age. But 'bed' was wherever they were, be it a friend's house, restaurant, party, walk, car, sling, pram. We were able to do this easily until about 6m (I had a better social life in evenings than I'd done for years tbh) but then it got harder, and for a while we could only manage friends houses after 'bed' and by a year baby couldn't manage it at all. Make the most of it.

This is aimed more at @Scrunchies, @summersflowers and others who have commented about my baby being easy - I absolutely do not have an easy baby. He’s very very demanding and nap times are a nightmare with him. I simply can’t put him down to do anything and the only way he naps is when I’m holding him. If I put him down for a nap he wakes up within 15 minutes, which is why I really don’t get any me time at all during the week, which is why meeting my pre pregnancy friends keeps me sane. I have had the same issue, thinking there’s something wrong with my baby when I would read MN and see all the posts about “just put them down” to shower, pee, etc. I genuinely cannot do that if he’s not in the right mood, which is most days. He just fusses and screams non stop - and it’s not the moany cry babies do when unhappy. He screams and screams and barely breathes.

He is, however, an outdoor baby. I can spend a whole day out with him and the only times he will fuss is when he starts to get hungry. He happily falls asleep for long periods outside and loves looking around, so he’s very content when I’m out of the house. So going out to restaurants and cafes has been outdoor seating. The handful of times we’ve sat inside he fusses and cries non stop that I (and if DH with me, DH) end up taking him outside and barely being able to eat so I never sit indoors anymore. He therefore happily sleeps in his pram or carrier only when he’s outside, which is why I’m not fussed about being outside late, as I know he’s happy which makes things easier for me. I’m absolutely dreading it when summer is over, and days where it’s wet or too hot to take him out are tough!

That’s not me refusing to take a compliment - just clarifying that he’s not easy and it’s very very exhausting, hence why those freedoms of going out and about have stopped me from having a breakdown, which I was very close to before I realised how happy he is outdoors.

Sorry, that sounds like an aggressive post! Doesn’t mean to come across that way...just quickly posting whilst my hands are free!

I wouldn't have done what you do. Evenings were for me and my partner so ds was in bed for 7pm. What do you do on evenings you aren't out with friends? You don't get an evening to relax on the sofa / watch TV etc. I know your dh works late so you're on your own but I'd still need that time for me.
You're not a bad parent at all but I just don't know how you cope without baby free time in the evening

It goes against safe sleeping guidelines to leave a baby under six months alone to sleep, so either the baby would have to be up with OP and her husband (and OP says he doesn’t sleep then) or left alone to sleep.

@NCJuly2021 not aggressive at all, bless you. Honestly as we have all said, they are all different. Do whatever works for you without any guilt, you are definitely not a bad mum.

The only thing I would say is that night sleep/ bedtime and naps are actually all linked. You might find that a routine helps naps during the day, but it might not. Just do whatever works for you. What I would say if he is still waking multiple times overnight and not napping in the day in a few months, might an earlier bedtime might be worth a try but that’s purely to see whether it helps you. You sound like you’re a great mum and don’t feel guilty for doing what works for you.

(For what it’s worth, my comments where mainly directed at other posters who were saying ‘babies are so easy and portable at that age, they sleep anywhere’) because this can make other readers feel they are doing something wrong

@MitheringSunday

Yes yes to the poster who commented that these are socially constructed norms. The British rigidity and obsession with 'routine' seems to me to be largely about keeping the baby separate, at (IMO) too young an age. When they're that tiny they need closeness to their parents and immediate responsiveness to their needs, not the holy trinity of bath-'story'-bed at 6.30pm in a dark room alone. That closeness and responsiveness, at that age, can be achieved on a train at 9pm just as much as it can at home. I, like others, think there's something else going on here, and IIWY I would be looking at my dh's attitude rather than my own parenting.

I also - having had three children, none of whom would ever have gone to bed at 7pm or even 8pm - think it's entirely fair enough to do what suits you and not become a slave to the 7pm bedtime if it means you're up for the day at 5am and that's your worst nightmare (though if you're a natural lark, why not?).

I know these babies exist and I was very jealous that it seems my baby ticked completely different.

There are tons of variations around and while I do agree, babies need to be secure and a close bond helps, not all babies like to be carried around and stay close to the parents happily and calm.

My one wouldn’t settle in a busy room with TV or radio on low or people talking, or not fully dark for night. She would happily fall asleep during the day anywhere.

It is down to luck in my opinion.

Mine never has either @reluctantbrit

@NCJuly2021 your ds sounds similar to mine. Mine is better out and about.

You basically described my (now 1 year old) baby and I! I took him here, there and everywhere and the 'routine' was non-existent. He never slept more than 2 hours anyway, had to be held, so for my sanity I was always with my family and took turns comforting him (colic). We started trying for an 8pm bedtime at about 10months, which did eventually work, but the other side to this is he has become the most adaptable baby imaginable. Can be settled and sleep anywhere. Just took him on holiday and he has slept through no dramas. Will sleep at nanny's house/nursery/anywhere asked of him. Posting this as supportive light at the end of the tunnel?!

Thank you to everyone for your comments, that’s really really helpful and I feel much better. I still have a niggling doubt that I’m doing things wrong, but much less than I felt last night. I think a big part of it is DH and I have different approaches to raising a baby. DH read many books and is a strong believer in babies needing a routine, whereas I read the books to understand what I need to know, but have gone with what feels right. So from when DS was 4 weeks old DH was going on about how we need to do a routine, and the few times I tried, DS refused to cooperate and the nights and days were worse than when I went with the flow. It got to the point of me snapping at DH and telling him to not talk about routines again, especially as I was the one dealing with it! That then backfired as DH then didn’t talk to me at all about child rearing strategies, and would only listen when I was talking about approaches, and when I pointed that out he said it’s because he didn’t think I was interested in his opinion!

So DS going down for the night at 1-2am when he was around 2 months old was a bugbear for DH! But that’s slowly and naturally come forward to 9 to 10pm being the time that DS goes down for the night and does his first stint of 2/3 hours before he wakes up for a feed. If he goes down any earlier, it’s more like a nap and he’ll wake up after half an hour.

Those 3 times when I wasn’t home by 9pm to put DS in bed, his bedtime was later. But he slept outside, so he wasn’t over stimulated or sleep deprived. He woke up either on my way home or when I got home, but as soon as I got in, DH changed him, and I followed the bedtime routine of lullabies and a feed and he went down as normal.

Obviously when he’s older (I’m thinking 7-8 months) I will work to implement more of a routine, in preparation for me going back to work when he’s a year old, but for now, the way things go work for me and I think DS too.

I think the point that some posters have made about culture playing a part might have a point. DH is from the UK and had no experience of children at all before DS so the books are gospel for him. I was born here, but my heritage is from a much warmer country, and I have a large extended family so have spent a lot of time abroad with babies and young children.

I do have a question that I could do with some advice on. How do you decide on strategies as a couple? On one hand, I do most of the childcare so the final say on strategies should be me, but on the other hand, DS is our child so obviously I can’t ignore what DH wants.

In terms of deciding your joint parenting strategy, you need to decide whether your DH is an equal partner with you in parenting your DC. So, yes he may work long hours atm, but does he share the parenting when he's off work, weekends and holidays, does he change nappies, does he do night wakings? Is the plan for him to help with nursery drop-offs and pick-ups when/if you go back to work? Does he "have your back" when it comes to parenting so you get equal free time to him to be your own person and feel human (without the baby) sometimes?

If the answer to the above questions is yes, then you agree a joint strategy together that works for you both (and you may have to compromise). If his main contribution is holding the baby for 10-20 minutes a week and nothing else, than he's essentially "directing" you (like he would an employee) how you should raise his child and I'd tell him where to go with that.

You sound like a great mum, babies don't have a set bedtime at that age, mine would go to bed anytime after 9pm at that age. Do whatever works for you and don't forget that you need self care and human interaction too even if it means on an off night the babe is awake later than usual. You sound like a great mum!

@NCJuly2021 - definitely not the only one with the nap situation!
When DS1 was tiny, he would NOT nap for more than half an hour at a time, maybe twice a day if I was lucky.
DH used to come home from work, wondering why stuff wasn't done, since I was at home all day and "Babies sleep all day"
I had to buy a sling just so I could get essential paperwork done, because he wouldn't sleep long enough for me to get into it unless he was "on me".

He settled down by about 6m and was better then.

Re. your question about making joint decisions - I have to say I went with "ok, tell me what you think will work, and I will listen, and then I will tell you how I can incorporate what you suggest into what does work, because I am the one dealing with the baby on a daily/hourly basis and you are not". This was largely because most of the suggestions my DH had were highly impractical and did not fit with the baby we had, as opposed to any ideal baby that he might have seen in films or read about.

Ideas and theories are all very well - but you have to work with the baby you have and that's something that both you and your DH will realise over time (you probably already have!)

If he likes books so much, then I suggest Libby Purves' book, "How Not To Be A Perfect Mother" which is the most reasonable and sane book I read as a new mum.

Ugh, I hate them saying what "we" should do, when it's clearly you who should be doing it

Regarding a joint parenting approach, yes it's good to have a discussion about approaches and listen to each other's point of view, but at the same time, my DH recognises that it's me who spends the vast majority of time with the baby, so perhaps I might know what suits them a bit better than he does? It's not a negative statement or a criticism, just a fact! If your roles were reversed, he would know more about baby's likes and dislikes than you. As it is, he spends a couple of days a week with your baby, but wants to dictate what time you have to be home for the "routine"? I wouldn't agree to that.

When my DD was a baby we ran a pub. So bedtime was late for all of us generally between midnight - 1am. It suited us just fine and she would sleep through beautifully. So yes, routine is good, but that routine needs to suit you & your family. One size ( going to bed at 6/7 pm) does not suit all

@Shuffleuplove

Your husband is a dick. And it’s quite controlling what he’s saying. Do watch for that...

This. Your husband is the one whop isn’t a great dad as he spends every evening working. You’d think that he would want to spent time with his child after being at work all day.