Please give it to me straight - am I a bad parent?

[NCJuly2021]

Posting on AIBU for traffic and also because there is a question of whether I’m reasonable or not.

I’m a FTM, to a nearly 4 month old. I do the majority of childcare. I exclusively breastfeed so since birth I have done all night feeds and wake ups. DS wakes between 3 and 5 times every night (plan to sleep train when he’s a little older). When DS was a newborn, DH helped for a couple of weeks with the night time nappy changes but then we slept in a different room because I realised I needed the TV on to get me through the night feeds (ie to stop me falling asleep whilst DS is on the breast). After a couple of weeks we came back to the bedroom and since then it’s just me who does all the night work.

It’s also just me who looks after baby Mondays to Fridays. DH will watch for 10 minutes every now and then in the mornings so I can shower, but that’s maybe once every couple of weeks. He also will watch him for 10 minutes in the evening so I can eat my dinner and then DS is back to me. DH has a very demanding job and he’s wfh but works very long hours.

On weekends, DH is very hands on with DS. I lie in on both days (DH is a natural early riser), he takes DS for walks so I can have some me time and we share looking after DS.

Re housework, we have a cleaner for cleaning, I do 80% of the laundry, and cooking is generally 60 / 40 to me.

When DS was small, he would usually go down for the night at 1am. We’ve now brought that forward to around 9.30 to 10pm and that’s where I’m happy with. Means we don’t wake up too early the next day, and DS isn’t alone for too long in the bedroom before I come to bed.

DH, however, is of the opinion that DS should be going to bed at 7-8pm, simply because that’s what babies do. My issue with that is purely selfish - I don’t want to wake up at 6am in the mornings and I don’t want to go to bed at 9pm either.

The issue is there have been 3 times I’ve been out late with DS and I end up like feeling the worst parent ever.

Once, I was at a friend’s house and left at 10.30pm.

The second I was at my parent’s house and left late, which meant I travelled on the train at 9pm.

The third was tonight, when I met a friend for dinner at 7pm and got home at 10pm.

Apart from those 3 times, I’m home with DS late evenings and the other very few times I have met friends, they come round to our home or we’ve met for lunch in the day.

So each time, DH has complained about DS being out late and I feel like an absolutely terrible parent. Honestly, I feel like shit. I need that time with friends to feel like myself but after DH comments about the time, I end up feeling like I’m neglecting my child. The way I see it, DS is still small and will fall sleep anywhere, but when he’s a few months older, he will need more of a routine and rigidity in his bed time but for now, it’s not the end of the world if his bedtime is 9.30 or he’s out and not in bed until 10.30pm.

Is that a normal way of approaching things or am I actually just a really bad and selfish parent? What is normal for a 4 month old?

Thank you for reading if you got this far.

Your DH doesn't get to opt out of parenting but tell you what to do.

Loads of people I know have late bedtimes for their kids, taking the "my children are so continental and sophisticated like me" line that you can see in this thread.

My older one chose an early bedtime from a very young age - at about 3 months old he decided that 6pm was it, it's gradually moved to 7ish now that he's 4. We didn't force this upon him, I would probably prefer slightly later. I honestly think it's related to our climate and daylight hours.

Yanbu in that at that age they do sleep portably and it's very easy to cart them about.

However your DH probably wants some adult time in the evenings. Also most of the people I know who kept to much later routines were the people who just can't get up of a morning, they were the same people who never really brought the bedtime earlier and ended up with school age kids who refuse to go to bed and then have to be woken for school and are invariably late.... perhaps suggest a time frame when you will work on bringing the bedtime a bit earlier? By 6-9m they get much harder to settle well out and about in the evenings anyway.

I may go against the grain here but I may also had the worst non-cot-sleeper ever.

Portable? Sleeps everywhere? Pah, they didn't meet my DD. She would be just totally overstimulated, refused to go to sleep and just would be a loud and cranky baby.

Saying that, that was for evenings, during the day I had a baby who loved to sleep in her pram for hours. Seems she had an in-built manual what to do where and when.

DD normally went to bed around 8.30pm, that was after we had dinner, she in her bouncer/playmat next to us. She then would have a wash/bath, story, song, milk and depending on age help with falling asleep or not.

But I also had a baby who would wake up around 6am regardless of what we did or how late she went to bed. So, the OP's life would be absolute havoc for us.

No not at all.

When DS was that little, if I wanted to see friends in the evening (he was EBF and bottle refused) he came with me and slept through it. At home I also used to keep him downstairs with me asleep in the Moses basket or on my tummy. I was a single parent, breastfeeding, and I wasn’t going to bed at 7pm. I had PND as it was. That would have tipped me over the edge.

Anyway- He slept 14 hours a night as a baby, used to stir a bit when I took him upstairs (but usually conincides with a feed so no big deal) and has no sleep issues now (wakes early though!)

Do what’s right for you and your baby.

Our daughter was not portable in the evenings. She was colicky and screamed every day from around 5-9pm. If she had been then we absolutely would have gone out for walks etc a bit more. As it is we settled to 7pm bedtimes when she was maybe 8ish months old and finally not colicky. So make the most of it. Our second probably would have slept anywhere. He's the sort of baby that liked to be put down so a pram, cot, whatever but older sisters routine and pandemic meant we again didn't get out with him. Do what works for you, they change so quickly at that age and being adaptable and making the most of summer evenings is not a crime, and as other have said quite a western fixation.

So much guff about routines being necessary for development! Do you think babies the world over have a strict bath, story, bed at 8pm routine? Or do you think that all babies worldwide with different lifestyles are poorly developed?

You do what works for you.

Mine always had late bedtimes because that way they saw their dad in the evening and they slept until a human time in the morning!
We also had enjoyable holiday with them from an early age because they would sleep in their pushchairs at a restaurant and there was none of the ' sitting in the dark in a hotel room at 8pm' nonsense that you read about on here. Routines are good if they work for YOU.

And my kids are grown up and healthy and strong and clever and sociable so it did them absolutely no harm and did my dh and me a lot of good!

@reluctantbrit I’m relieved to read your post.

Reading the rest I thought I had a broken baby.

Both of my kids had completely random bedtimes til they were around 5-6 months when they started to naturally fall into the routine of a 7-8pm bedtime.

Until then they were happy to crash wherever we were. They also don't need a bath every night.

I don't think there has been any outcome on their sleep patterns. My eldest was a crap sleeper from day one and only slept for 2 hour stretches, my youngest slept like the dead from the first night.

Some babies wouldn't cope with that, even at 4 months. You would absolutely know for definite if your babies was one of those!!

I could see his point if you're arriving him at 11pm with an hysterical, over stimulated, over tired baby, and he then can't get to sleep until 1am, and it completely ruins your partner's night's sleep. But if the baby is fine with it, then it's fine 🤷‍♀️

Totally fine. It’s only on occasion. We did this. For us the change naturally happened around 6 /7months when they were eating regular meals. Then it’s more important to have a bedtime routine/ story/bedtime IMO.

Try to take easy. Yes, little baby need our care and love. So you did. However, it's ok to let him stay and play by himself while you can do your laundry/work, have your meal or a cup of coffee.

@CallMeRisley I completely agree. I had one of those babies too, couldn’t put her down and certainly wouldn’t sleep anywhere as PPs on this thread seem to take for granted. I know it’s my own issue, but I get the rage with posters on MN who have ‘easy babies’ and think it’s because of their parenting.

I just feel like saying - Your baby sleeps out and about? Perfect crack on. But that’s because of LUCK. Not because of your relaxed attitude. I had a relaxed attitude until a horrendous birth where we both nearly died and an unwell baby who screamed non stop and wouldn’t sleep more than 10 mins. And they can put their baby down? Perfect, good for you. But again LUCK. That’s just the type of baby they got, and it frustrates me that people can’t see their are different types of babies who aren’t flexible.

This isn’t aimed at the OP by the way, just a general theme I’ve noticed where posters are so flippant about their easy babies and patronising to those that can’t put their baby down/ be out at 10pm. Again - NOT the OP.

In other countries babies just do what their parents do. So 3 am would be fine.

@summersflowers not at all, it’s nothing you’re doing. ITS HARD. That’s why I posted my rant above because I remember reading these threads thinking I was doing everything wrong, my baby must be broken or have something wrong with her.

I’m hoping I get an easy baby next time round. But even more I hope my Nct who are so feckin smug about their easy babies get a non sleeper like I did! 🤣

[quote Scrunchies]@CallMeRisley I completely agree. I had one of those babies too, couldn’t put her down and certainly wouldn’t sleep anywhere as PPs on this thread seem to take for granted. I know it’s my own issue, but I get the rage with posters on MN who have ‘easy babies’ and think it’s because of their parenting.

I just feel like saying - Your baby sleeps out and about? Perfect crack on. But that’s because of LUCK. Not because of your relaxed attitude. I had a relaxed attitude until a horrendous birth where we both nearly died and an unwell baby who screamed non stop and wouldn’t sleep more than 10 mins. And they can put their baby down? Perfect, good for you. But again LUCK. That’s just the type of baby they got, and it frustrates me that people can’t see their are different types of babies who aren’t flexible.

This isn’t aimed at the OP by the way, just a general theme I’ve noticed where posters are so flippant about their easy babies and patronising to those that can’t put their baby down/ be out at 10pm. Again - NOT the OP.[/quote]
I was at a baby class yesterday where a very lovely seven week old next to me fell asleep on the mat. I could not believe it.

I don’t even think ds was particularly difficult but he definitely needed to be held for naps until five months (or in the pram / car etc.) Slings are always pushed as the answer here but while ds loved the sling it was only when he was being walked around.

MN can be a bit dangerous to read when pregnant! You think it will be rather easy.

But that aside if it works for the OP it is not a problem. I do think as a general point you do have to adapt as a parent and that does mean getting up at 6/ going to bed at 9 sometimes —or earlier—

Mine is quite easy by the standards of my NCT group!

I think we had a faulty batch

You're fine, OP.

So long as the baby is getting enough sleep, with naps and so on, then there's no issue.

Not all babies conform to rigid bedtimes as set down in parenting books, especially if you're in the UK with the sun not setting until 10pm at the moment!

Mine were both late to bed, late to rise babies - if I tried to get either of them in bed any time before 8:30pm, then they'd wake up an hour later and be WIDE awake until minimum 11pm.
So I stopped trying - their natural rhythm was to go to sleep around 8:30/9pm and wake up around 8am - suited me just fine, so I didn't see any need to try to force the change "just because".

All babies are different - a friend of mine, her DS would wake up at 5am regardless of when he went to bed - she tried keeping him up as late as she possibly could, but he was STILL up and wide awake at 5am.

Your DH needs to wind his neck in and stop making you feel bad.

But the op doesn't HAVE a difficult baby who won't settle. That is the point. So why she should live her life as if she does have a baby who won't settle?

If you're the one doing majority of the childcare, all the wake ups etc then you do what is right for you. Personally my son had a 7pm routine at that age but that's because I preferred evening time over sleeping in in the morning but there's no set rules, especially not at that age!

Me and DP were saying this just at the weekend. We had a couple of events to go to on the weekend and we were saying when they're younger they fall asleep anywhere so much easier to keep them out later.

Our DS is 2 so we left around 7pm to get him showered and ready for bed.

Your DH is out of order and it's perfectly okay to keep them out a bit later at that age if you need to recharge. Don't see him offering to come and get the baby or keep the baby with him?

When they're a bit older is when a routine comes into it and you stick to it with the odd slight adjustments. I'm not really strict if I'm out about his routine but I do like him home by around 8/8:30.

But if we're on holiday it will be around 10/11 as a lot of families are still out at this time and entertainment etc is still on.

@fedupandfiredup

You are absolutely reasonable. I'll never understand this British obsession with hiding children away at 7-8pm. The beauty of newborns is they are so portable. All they need is the safety and security of you and they'd much rather be out and about with the security of mum nearby than at home with a babysitter. Yes, children need a stable routine but at 4 months old, that basically boils down to a consistent primary caregiver, baby isn't keeping an eye on the clock and feeling unstable if it goes past 8pm. You're absolutely right that the social interaction will do you good. Enjoy the freedom and enjoy being a new mum xx

I was going to write this too.

My ds was born abroad is a hot country.

It was very usual to go out for a coffee with friends at 8pm. Sat outside when it was cooler.

Babies just went in pram. They either slept or got held by whoever took them! Babies were seen as a joy and great addition to a group and not something to be shoved away in a room due to a routine.

And it didn't affect my sons sleep. In fact - his lead was horrified that at 4 months he slept through without a feed.

The stuff about babies needing routines and early bedtimes is bollocks. Some parents might choose to do this, and that's totally fair enough, but it isn't the only "right" way.

If your baby is happy and healthy, then do what works for you. We never really got into a routine with dd, either with mealtimes or with bedtimes. She's a teenager now and I can categorically say that it doesn't appear to have impacted on her development!

I think it sounds totally fine op. Also people's responses will be shaped by their own dc. My first was a blinking nightmare - wouldn't settle until about midnight for the first 6 months, regularly woke up, early starts....we were shattered! If we'd had the energy, we could definitely have taken him out for meals etc as evening was his most awake time. My second was totally different - from a few weeks old, he needed his bed at 7pm and got very fractious/upset if I kept him downstairs in the light and noise. So his bedtime routine was much earlier and easier! It doesn't mean much in the long-term- my oldest is a fantastic sleeper now and my youngest (who is only 18mo but still) is a right pain in the butt currently. I also had a friend who deliberately put her dc down at 10pm so that she got to sleep in til 9am-10am on maternity leave! Again, her dc is fine with sleep now. Do what works for you and your baby I say.

A bad mum is a mum that abuses her child, takes drugs while pregnant, leaves a baby alone, lets the child be abused by another, doesn't feed her baby or neglects their child.
You are not a bad mother because you want to live your life and god forbid have some kind of interaction with your parents and friends.
You're baby is four months old. Enjoy your freedom of no routine, which you already said you didn't have.
Having a baby in a global pandemic and during lockdown is hard enough.
Enjoy your baby while he's little and don't think you're a bad mum xxx

Yanbu. I would have loved ds1 to have slept anywhere. Unfortunately he had "colic" so from about 5pm until 9/10pm he would scream his head off in obvious pain. He also wouldn't nap for more than 20mins and had to be walked in a pram to get him off. I couldn't take him anywhere. HV and GP said it was normal.
Enjoy your tiny, portable baby. You don't really need to get into a routine until they start school if it doesn't suit you. Ds2 was much more portable and would sleep anywhere. However I had ds1 to look after.