Please give it to me straight - am I a bad parent?

[NCJuly2021]

Posting on AIBU for traffic and also because there is a question of whether I’m reasonable or not.

I’m a FTM, to a nearly 4 month old. I do the majority of childcare. I exclusively breastfeed so since birth I have done all night feeds and wake ups. DS wakes between 3 and 5 times every night (plan to sleep train when he’s a little older). When DS was a newborn, DH helped for a couple of weeks with the night time nappy changes but then we slept in a different room because I realised I needed the TV on to get me through the night feeds (ie to stop me falling asleep whilst DS is on the breast). After a couple of weeks we came back to the bedroom and since then it’s just me who does all the night work.

It’s also just me who looks after baby Mondays to Fridays. DH will watch for 10 minutes every now and then in the mornings so I can shower, but that’s maybe once every couple of weeks. He also will watch him for 10 minutes in the evening so I can eat my dinner and then DS is back to me. DH has a very demanding job and he’s wfh but works very long hours.

On weekends, DH is very hands on with DS. I lie in on both days (DH is a natural early riser), he takes DS for walks so I can have some me time and we share looking after DS.

Re housework, we have a cleaner for cleaning, I do 80% of the laundry, and cooking is generally 60 / 40 to me.

When DS was small, he would usually go down for the night at 1am. We’ve now brought that forward to around 9.30 to 10pm and that’s where I’m happy with. Means we don’t wake up too early the next day, and DS isn’t alone for too long in the bedroom before I come to bed.

DH, however, is of the opinion that DS should be going to bed at 7-8pm, simply because that’s what babies do. My issue with that is purely selfish - I don’t want to wake up at 6am in the mornings and I don’t want to go to bed at 9pm either.

The issue is there have been 3 times I’ve been out late with DS and I end up like feeling the worst parent ever.

Once, I was at a friend’s house and left at 10.30pm.

The second I was at my parent’s house and left late, which meant I travelled on the train at 9pm.

The third was tonight, when I met a friend for dinner at 7pm and got home at 10pm.

Apart from those 3 times, I’m home with DS late evenings and the other very few times I have met friends, they come round to our home or we’ve met for lunch in the day.

So each time, DH has complained about DS being out late and I feel like an absolutely terrible parent. Honestly, I feel like shit. I need that time with friends to feel like myself but after DH comments about the time, I end up feeling like I’m neglecting my child. The way I see it, DS is still small and will fall sleep anywhere, but when he’s a few months older, he will need more of a routine and rigidity in his bed time but for now, it’s not the end of the world if his bedtime is 9.30 or he’s out and not in bed until 10.30pm.

Is that a normal way of approaching things or am I actually just a really bad and selfish parent? What is normal for a 4 month old?

Thank you for reading if you got this far.

Even as toddlers, our DC stayed out occasionally with us until the early hours. I'd put nappies and pyjamas on them before we left and they'd sleep in the buggy, then transfer to bed when we got home. Also, DS2's bedtime was 11.30 when he was that age. That's not what babies do.

My aunt used to say DS2 should go to bed before DD2, I'd say "why? You put them to bed for the start of their longest period of sleep."

Yanbu regarding bedtimes. My babies/toddlers slept 10 hours, their bedtime was always at 9pm, wake up at 7am. There is no reason they need to be in bed by 7pm, and wake me up at 5 am!

You know it's completely a cultural thing that people in the UK put their kids to bed at 7pm, right?

In other countries, children regularly go to bed at 10, 11, 12pm.

It really doesn't matter, as long as whatever you do works for both you and your child, and they are getting enough sleep. Obviously they need a routine so whatever you do should be the same every night.

Your husband is being a bit precious because to the baby it makes absolutely no difference.

When they get older and maybe will be starting school/ nursery, and have to be there for 8.30 in the morning, you might want to work towards having them in bed earlier so they can get up at 6.30/7am.

But really when they are so little, as long as they're getting enough sleep, it's fine!

All I can say is well done for being out with the baby and having a life. I wish I did the same with mine instead of being perpetually stressed. You are doing great. You are not a bad parent.

4 months is the lovely, easy bit where they can't move anywhere and you can get out and about so easily. It's so much more complicated when they are toddlers and need to go to bed or have food at certain times and climb and run off every 5 seconds so you can't hang around chatting. This is the lovely stage and especially when you just have one so definitely enjoy the flexibility, at this age they don't need a set routine at all! You'll have all that to come.

That sounds fine to me. Your DH sound quite involved too, which is great.

@summersflowers

I don’t think all babies sleep everywhere. Mine certainly didn’t. I watched a newborn fall asleep on a mat at a baby class today - mine wouldn’t have done that.

I think that the issue here is that your wishes are largely superseding that of the baby, which is why I’m not really sure which way to vote. On the one hand babies have to fit in with our routine but I do think it’s unkind to keep a tired baby up so that he doesn’t wake at 6am. To be honest, you will probably find he wakes early in the future regardless of what time he goes to bed.

I personally find that rather than a set bedtime or set nap times it’s more helpful to go off wake windows, which I think are around two hours at your age. So if he wakes from his last nap at 5, he should be going down around 7. It’s harder in the summer, though.

Her wishes are superseding that of the baby? What do you think the wishes of the baby are? To be put to bed at 7pm? The wishes of a 4 month old baby are: to be fed, to have a clean nappy on, to be warm and to be cuddled, preferably by Mum, and then to drift off to sleep happily either in someone’s (Mum’s) arms or in the pram (or cot/crib when at home). All of these wishes can be granted at 8pm in a restaurant! Some 4 month olds might even have the wish to look around at other people, lights, hear sounds such as background music or people talking, see people smiling, laughing, watch them eating- all social learning experiences even at 4m (as they will begin eating themselves a couple of months later).

It was this I was responding to

My issue with that is purely selfish - I don’t want to wake up at 6am in the mornings and I don’t want to go to bed at 9pm either

Obviously if the baby will sleep wherever that’s not a problem.

@NCJuly2021 it is a totally 'UK" thing for babies to go to bed early.

You will regret it when they get up at 5am! I am always amazed at people who are wailing over 5am wake ups when they have spent years training their little ones to be asleep at 730 -

In Europe it is far more normal for babies to go to bed much later - and children in fact.

It is far more convenient if the baby fits in with you - do what suits you and stop worrying about it.

re. getting them used to it for school - god, school routine is so incredibly restrictive and it lasts for YEARS. I loathe having to wake my tired kids at 8 every morning and love the holidays when they can relax in the evening and get up when they like.

Enjoy it now when you are not in a hurry in the morning -

None of my babies would have gone to bed at 7pm aged four months.. fat chance! Enjoy taking him out and enjoy your evenings. Your dH is clueless.. and he’s being a nob

I actually find it odd that anyone thinks you are being unreasonable.

Our three generally go to bed early but they are adaptable and if we want to go out for an evening, we go together so they will stay up late. They’ve had some great experiences through doing this. Life if for living imo, not sleeping.

In Europe it is far more normal for babies to go to bed much later - and children in fact.
This is a southern European thing and presumably related to the weather. It makes perfect sense to nap in the middle of the day when its scorching and stay up late when its pleasant and mild. In the Netherlands, where the climate is similar to ours, children generally follow a similar bedtime routine.

Anyway OP if your baby is getting enough sleep then you're doing fine. You'd know if he was over tired and bad tempered; he certainly wouldn't be chill enough for you to enjoy the evening. My DS used to go batshit if he wasn't in his cot at 7pm, and my DD just never fucking slept, all babies are different and you know your own baby. Tell DH to wind his neck in.

If Dh wants Ds to be put to bed at 7pm then he can crack on and do that and if that means ds gets up at 6am then he can deal with that.
If he has work or is unwilling to suffer the consequences then he has no say in how you deal with it

you will be weaning at 6 months, that will tie you down
enjoy your freedom now

I did the same as you with my first. He was a late sleeper and I didn't see the problem taking him out late as he would sleep wherever we were. I co slept too ! He's 10 and sleeps really well now, will go to sleep on his own. Sounds like you are an attentive mum, always seeing to your baby's needs. I used to put my babies in their bouncy chair in the bathroom while I had a shower if husband was out. From when he was able to sit up and reach for toys he was happier to play on his own . Keep it up and you and your baby will have a good bond. Its hard when you and your husband have different views on parenting but if you explain about needing the social contact hopefully he will have some empathy for that.

Weaning doesn't necessarily tie you down either, just means you have to carry a little lunchbox.

At 4 months you just go with the flow. My experience of babies is that they dont read all the manuals which get written. They come with their own internal operating system which may or may not coincide with one of the many theories.

In the Netherlands, where the climate is similar to ours, children generally follow a similar bedtime routine.

When we lived in the Netherlands I remember hearing our neighbours DCs screaming the house down as parents tried to get them to sleep at around 7pm while our DCs were happily still quietly playing. Through the evening we would slowly wind things down. DCs went to bed when they were tired. For us bedtime wasnt a hill to die on.

You are most definitely not a bad parent, what a ridiculous suggestion! However, I wouldn’t be ok with no routine and still up to 5 wakes a night at 4 months old but you’re the one dealing with it and given your husband just isn’t available to help at all, I don’t think his opinion really counts for anything. If he wants to start finishing work earlier and doing bedtimes then he might get a say but right now it’s important that you do what works best for you and baby.

Also, I’m really big on routine and it worked for us because both of mine were sleeping through by 3 months old. However, I do take them out in the evening, I just do the routine at 7pm wherever I am then put them down in the stroller. Transfer to bed when we get home. Which is similar to what I did when they were too tiny to go into their own rooms and they slept in the pram in the living room until we went up to bed. It is so much easier to have a portable baby than one that will only sleep in a cot in the dark!

At 4 months old the sheer joy of them is that they sleep anywhere

AHAHAHAHAHA 🤣😩 that was not AT ALL my experience. You all clearly have magic babies/ sleepers. From 6 weeks mine only slept in a dark quiet room with white noise, swaddled and rocked at that stage. wouldn’t sleep elsewhere if our lives depended on it.

Enjoy your flexible baby @NCJuly2021, we aren’t all as lucky!

I think he is being unreasonable here TBH. You sound great to me .He is being overly optimistic to think you "should" get babe down for a certain time .4 month olds sleep when they sleep! They and you are still getting into a routine together and it takes some while,do not put pressure on yourself to "have it licked " by a certain age! Likewise expressing milk ,never got the hang of it even though BF for over a year!

it doesnt sound like you are out late every night op, just 3 times you mentioned.
relax

Also @NCJuly2021 wanted to say it sounds like you are doing really well, you should be proud of yourself. Getting out and about like that at 4 months is a triumph rather than something to worry about xx

Does your DH's belief in the routine that baby 'should' be sticking to also include how often baby should be fed? Say, only every 4 hours?

More importantly- has he told the baby of his routine obligations?

I'm a very strong believer in putting children to bed at a regular time (and in having evenings to myself) but even I didn't do this until they were at least 6 months old. As most pps have said, the joy of a tiny baby is that they're easily portable.

Also, your mental health is equally important - getting out and seeing your friends and family is good for you.

Your DH is being a bit precious, imo.

Your DH would have called social services on us. Our lg was an absolute dream, she slept anywhere and we took her everywhere. I was baffled when people asked if I'd been out of the house yet, life continued as normal except I was on maternity leave. I absolutely loved that period, went out exercising, dinners, lunches, brunches, visiting houses, shopping. I was travelling on the train in those days or by taxi. She slept, woke up for a feed, I'd cuddle her, often strap her to me in the restaurant and continue on. I really don't know what the problem is. She's three now and haven't seen any lasting trauma, people always always comment on what a happy easy child she is and particularly on how chilled out she is in company, not pulling at me or having meltdowns.

Sorry I'm no expert. I only have one child and didn't have much experience with kids before. I also didn't read any manuals or check expert advice unless I was having a specific problem but I really think your instincts won't put you wrong.