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Can you be a good person if you pay for sex? [Content warning: descriptions of sexual abuse]

582 replies

Lave · 18/07/2021 14:15

Do you think there's a grey area or are all men who pay for sex abusive?

OP posts:
Frootloops4life · 18/07/2021 15:46

The sex positive movement has done a stellar job of convincing society that prostitutes just love their job and men are just doing them a favour.

The men have got a vested interest and thinking about why the women might not actually have huge amounts of job satisfaction

Frootloops4life · 18/07/2021 15:47

*in not thinking

Naunet · 18/07/2021 15:47

@RaindropsOnRosie

Not all sex workers are forced into the job, some enjoy it and have chosen it. If a man chooses to pay for sex with a sex worker who consents, I don't see a problem.
How do they find out if a woman is being forced? What research are you assuming they are doing? Or is it that you have never actually thought about this, and the % of men who are doing their research?
youvegottenminuteslynn · 18/07/2021 15:47

@RaindropsOnRosie

Not all sex workers are forced into the job, some enjoy it and have chosen it. If a man chooses to pay for sex with a sex worker who consents, I don't see a problem.
But the man runs the risk that she is abused, coerced, trafficked etc. He cannot know if she is or not. He's willing to run the risk. A decent man wouldn't be.
BlatantlyNameChanged · 18/07/2021 15:49

Not all sex workers are forced into the job, some enjoy it and have chosen it. If a man chooses to pay for sex with a sex worker who consents, I don't see a problem

Consent is not a saleable commodity, if money is changing hands then the buyer has a position of power over the seller and the consent has not been freely given.

Lave · 18/07/2021 15:50

Not one of my clients ever bothered their arse to ascertain whether I was doing it of my own accord, even when I'd turn up to bookings with bruises nobody said a thing.

I become so poorly with stress and PTSD after a year of doing it I was visibly emaciated and none of them sought to find out if I was ok.

Two of the fuckers knew with absolute certainty that somebody was behind the scenes pulling my strings because I told them as much. It didn't stop them wanting to book me.

OP posts:
CasualCucumer · 18/07/2021 15:50

I think that there is a big difference in the world pre Internet & post Internet

Of course paid sex was always there, but it has become much more mainstream

The same has occurred with betting & gambling

BiBabbles · 18/07/2021 15:50

I generally don't see much benefit in trying to qualify someone as good or bad, but I struggle to see how paying for sex could be seen as an ethical action. Even considering 'some choose and enjoy it', it's still in murky territory when it involves the ignoring of health and safety and other work protections not applied to anyone else. Systems that enable it continue to ignore that issue and I think have issues of corruption that need tackling.

I can definitely see the argument that it's an abuse at least of economic power to be able to pay to ignore basic safety for one's own pleasure.

newnortherner111 · 18/07/2021 15:50

I do not think you are a good man (or in the rare case it happens, woman) if you pay for sex.

Whilst we should not condemn prostitutes who may be forced or coerced in some way into selling sex, we should never normalise so-called sex work.

CastawayQueen · 18/07/2021 15:51

@Awalkintime

Marguerite2000 If a person wouldn't consent without the payment then they aren't giving that consent freely and willingly. No 20 year old is going to have sex with a fat, smelly fat 60 year old willingly so if that wouldn't happen without payment then they really don't want to do that. Also men know this - they are going to have sex with a person they know is doing this because they have to, not because they want to, so therefore they are willingly going into this knowing this person doesn't want to do it so doesn't give full consent.

They also are going into this knowing that some will be trafficked, they do not know which ones but still go into this situation knowing the person they are with could be being forced to do this. They don't care if it is the person they are with who is being forced. They go into this with that full knowledge. It is paid rape in my opinion.

But that’s not true. There a quite a few rich men around (40-50 aged) who aren’t ugly fucks and whom (if they wanted) could probably find a woman who would have sex with them without payment. Just that it’s a lot easier to pay a younger woman for whom while he wouldn’t be first choice isn’t a disgusting fuck. It’s not a binary choice between would fuck/would never fuck in each and every circumstance. There are gradations.

While these cases are very small they do exist.that’s why I can’t logically condemn them compared to something like paeodophilia (which in each and every case is unequivocally bad bad bad no matter what).

CastawayQueen · 18/07/2021 15:54

@Frootloops4life

The sex positive movement has done a stellar job of convincing society that prostitutes just love their job and men are just doing them a favour.

The men have got a vested interest and thinking about why the women might not actually have huge amounts of job satisfaction

The bigger issue is convincing women that sex is just a commodity. And that everyone spends their youth sleeping around and having one night stands and this is perfectly normal.

Then you get loads of women wondering what’s wrong with them when they haven’t found what they’re looking for after this endless cycle of flings , being used and then thrown away. Especially when men care so little about female sexual pleasure.

RaindropsOnRosie · 18/07/2021 15:54

This reply has been deleted

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Megasausagehead · 18/07/2021 15:56

I always thank my lucky stars that I didn't end up as a prostitute. It was a close thing. Instead I was used and abused for free.

After the first few times you are raped, you stop trying to fight back, something dies inside. You know that it will happen no matter what you do or say. Often they seem to be enjoying it more if you show you don't want it.

It is such a horrific feeling of having no control, that sometimes it is preferable to pretend to yourself that you are actively choosing to do this. That way you can fake some degree of control. However, every single man who thinks he can throw you some money and use your body for sex, increase the damage to your self esteem.

I was attached to an abuser on fabswingers. We had reviews and it was always about the woman. Me. I cannot list the vile assaults and entitlements those men took. Women's bodies are meat. At sex clubs I could tell from eye contact who was there from abuse, women. We knew from the eyes. We never touched each other, but looked out for each other.

So yes I'm afraid, men or women paying for sex would be a massive red flag for me. I would consider them morally bankrupt and abusive.

OP, you can and will heal from the trauma. Whilst you need to acknowledge what you have been through, you need to hand the guilt back to those who wilfully abused your vulnerable position for their own needs. You need to forgive that traumatized version of you, who did what she needed to do to survive.

I had spent years trying to integrate the traumatized me in to who I now know I really am. I thought that accepting what I had done meant that it had to be part of the now me. It isn't. The traumatized me has a separate safe space inside me, where I defend her to the death. She was vulnerable and abused and she survived how she had to. I however am strong and capable and I can keep her safe.

I hope you understand what I mean. Sending you love and compassion ❤

youvegottenminuteslynn · 18/07/2021 15:56

@RaindropsOnRosie

I agree not all prostitutes are abused, coerced, trafficked etc. But the man runs the risk that she is abused, coerced, trafficked etc. He cannot know if she is or not. He's willing to run the risk. A decent man wouldn't be.

BlatantlyNameChanged · 18/07/2021 15:59

I'm not anti-sexworker or pro-misogyny. It's a fact that sex work goes hand in hand with trafficking, addiction, violence, murder, rape, physical health problems, mental health problems, and so on. No woman (or man, for that matter) should have to sell their body for money and the men (because it is mainly men) who support this "industry" (used loosely, a woman's body is not a workplace) are supporting all of those issues I just listed. Do they care? No, they don't because a woman is just a collection of holes and heaven forbid they be bared from sticking their dick in any of them.

Lave · 18/07/2021 16:00

Also, I can testify to the fact that there's often more too it than somebody just being lonely and wanting a connection. Many of them are just seedy fuckers who wouldn't have the nerve to inflict their perversions on anybody they know irl. They wouldn't dream of sharing their fantasies with Suzanne from the office after the Christmas party because they care what she'd think of them.

No prizes for guessing what the most popular roleplay was..

It's always the 'naive young teen' they want you to act out, the 'neice' or 'babysitter' .. the school 'bike' or even their son/daughters school friend.

I would never age play as anything under the age of consent but that didn't stop them pushing boundaries.

It's strange how they never ask you to pretend you're a mature and successful woman with your shit together.

OP posts:
lokomojo · 18/07/2021 16:01

Given that the majority of all women working as prostitutes are forced or groomed into it as children, and that odds are the woman has been trafficked as well, it's odds on you are raping someone when you see a prostitute.

It's pretty hard to see someone who thinks that's a reasonable risk to take as a good person.

You know, there are some people who willingly enter into slave contracts. They love it. They seek out masters on the internet. Is slavery ok then? The slave markets of Libya are actually progressive, I guess, these days.

TreesoftheField · 18/07/2021 16:02

It's not feeble to be controlled by a pimp FFS. it's not misogynistic to acknowledge the power and control men can have over women.
I haworked with groomed young women, it is horrific how they have been groomed into this stuff by someone who they think they love. The sexist attitudes in our society make it easier for men to control women.

MaryBoBary · 18/07/2021 16:02

It disgusts me to know a man pays for sex and I would want nothing more to do with them.

MaryBoBary · 18/07/2021 16:03

That goes for men who attend strip clubs too. I find it offensive as a woman. I don't judge the women.

Lave · 18/07/2021 16:03

@Megasausagehead

I always thank my lucky stars that I didn't end up as a prostitute. It was a close thing. Instead I was used and abused for free.

After the first few times you are raped, you stop trying to fight back, something dies inside. You know that it will happen no matter what you do or say. Often they seem to be enjoying it more if you show you don't want it.

It is such a horrific feeling of having no control, that sometimes it is preferable to pretend to yourself that you are actively choosing to do this. That way you can fake some degree of control. However, every single man who thinks he can throw you some money and use your body for sex, increase the damage to your self esteem.

I was attached to an abuser on fabswingers. We had reviews and it was always about the woman. Me. I cannot list the vile assaults and entitlements those men took. Women's bodies are meat. At sex clubs I could tell from eye contact who was there from abuse, women. We knew from the eyes. We never touched each other, but looked out for each other.

So yes I'm afraid, men or women paying for sex would be a massive red flag for me. I would consider them morally bankrupt and abusive.

OP, you can and will heal from the trauma. Whilst you need to acknowledge what you have been through, you need to hand the guilt back to those who wilfully abused your vulnerable position for their own needs. You need to forgive that traumatized version of you, who did what she needed to do to survive.

I had spent years trying to integrate the traumatized me in to who I now know I really am. I thought that accepting what I had done meant that it had to be part of the now me. It isn't. The traumatized me has a separate safe space inside me, where I defend her to the death. She was vulnerable and abused and she survived how she had to. I however am strong and capable and I can keep her safe.

I hope you understand what I mean. Sending you love and compassion ❤

I understand completely, and I'm so sorry for what you've been through too. Sending you love also Flowers
OP posts:
CastawayQueen · 18/07/2021 16:03

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@RaindropsOnRosie

I agree not all prostitutes are abused, coerced, trafficked etc. But the man runs the risk that she is abused, coerced, trafficked etc. He cannot know if she is or not. He's willing to run the risk. A decent man wouldn't be.[/quote]
He can though - if she has only a small number regular clients, dictates her hours, terms and conditions it’s quite clear that she’s doing it of her own volition.

I know of one high end escort who is very upfront that she will only do 3 very specific positions. Is to be entertained at specific restaurants and have a certain amount of money deposited in her account every month. She is most definitely with all of those rules neither desperate nor trafficked.

ShortBacknSides · 18/07/2021 16:03

Short answer:

No

If a man has paid for sex, he is not a good person.

PineappleMojito · 18/07/2021 16:04

Not necessarily all abusive, but not good men either

BlatantlyNameChanged · 18/07/2021 16:05

I know of one high end escort who is very upfront that she will only do 3 very specific positions. Is to be entertained at specific restaurants and have a certain amount of money deposited in her account every month. She is most definitely with all of those rules neither desperate nor trafficked.

Still at high risk of being beaten, raped, and/or murder though, isn't she?

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