Can you be a good person if you pay for sex? [Content warning: descriptions of sexual abuse]

[Lave]

Do you think there's a grey area or are all men who pay for sex abusive?

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

A single man or indeed women wanting sex doesn’t make them the devil, does it. Prostitution is one of the oldest professions in the world. I’d do it if I got desperate I’ve no issues with admitting to that. No disrespect but you can’t have it both ways provide a service then vilify people who use it.

There is such a big difference though in what led to a woman becoming a prostitute versus a man using one. The women are often brought up in difficult circumstances. Chaotic families, abuse, lack of privacy, unable to have boundaries, little education etc. Forced or coerced into prostitution, abused, limited opportunities to gain other types of work. The men just decide they want to pay to fuck/use/rape a woman. Not really comparable.

I think it’s dependant on circumstance.

If they take precautions and the person selling the sex is doing so of their own volition and comfortable with that choice then who are we to judge? One person wants to sell something another person wants to buy. They’re both consenting adults and there are no significant follow up issues. I don’t see how it’s a great deal different to those having casual sex or choosing ‘exotic dancing’ as a career.

The issue is in many cases the person selling the sex isn’t doing so by choice and that’s what makes it morally wrong. In those cases buying it would indeed make you a bad person yes.

Lave

Well rounded and healthy individuals do not have to sell their bodies, awwwlook knows this as they would only do it if they were desperate. I guess I would if I was desperate, but then that wouldn't be consensual, I'd only be doing it as there was no other option. I do understand why people end up doing it and I have nothing but support for them. The fact that someone can be so desperate never makes it right for someone to pay.

You're falling for the 'empowered sex worker' lie rather than the 'prostituted woman' reality.

Ah yes I remember that one, I played it well at the time.

The truth was I had little option but to go out and sell my body for sex because I had a nasty piece of work at home who got nasty when he didn't have his drugs or I didn't want to take the booking.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

A single man or indeed women wanting sex doesn’t make them the devil, does it. Prostitution is one of the oldest professions in the world. I’d do it if I got desperate I’ve no issues with admitting to that. No disrespect but you can’t have it both ways provide a service then vilify people who use it.

You should have issue admitting that.

What about women paying for sex ? Are they as awful

@8monthsinandcranky - in my opinion it doesn’t make any difference whether the sex worker is being forced or is doing it of their own volition - the person buying the sex is still seeing a human being as a commodity they can purchase, not a real person - at it’s crudest, they see them as a hole they can buy to fuck.

So, for me, paying for sex demonstrates a nasty attitude towards, at best some women, and at worst, all women.

@8monthsinandcranky

I think it’s dependant on circumstance.

If they take precautions and the person selling the sex is doing so of their own volition and comfortable with that choice then who are we to judge? One person wants to sell something another person wants to buy. They’re both consenting adults and there are no significant follow up issues. I don’t see how it’s a great deal different to those having casual sex or choosing ‘exotic dancing’ as a career.

The issue is in many cases the person selling the sex isn’t doing so by choice and that’s what makes it morally wrong. In those cases buying it would indeed make you a bad person yes.

Do you really think anyone would chose to do so of their own volition, when attacks against prostituted women not only are a common occurance but also ignored by the police and society?

@Naaaaah yes that happens a lot - also human trafficking.

However there are also women who do it of their own choice (like the university girls who become escorts). Or the insta ‘influencers’ who go on all expense paid holidays to Dubai.

Furthermore different people have different levels of sexual comfort. There are women who would sleep with strangers and women who would never. It doesn’t make sense to say all prostitution involves no consent on the woman’s part.

Having said that a large majority of prostitution is by coerced women. I’d think very badly of people who paid for sex in Thailand for example, or through pimps. However I’d have a different opinion of someone who used a high class escort in the U.K (who has other options and decided that this one was a good idea).

@Thisisworsethananticpated

What about women paying for sex ? Are they as awful

To me they are yes.

No one thing makes a person "good" or "bad"

I agree that life isn’t linear

Prositituion ranges from sex trafficked women from people who exercise free choice
Users range from misogynistic sociopaths to people who simply want to fuck

I think you can hate abuse and control whilst not necessarily thinking that the whole sector is wrong

If I wanted a fuck my choices are
Go with an ex ( baggage)
Shag someone I know (shitting where I eat)
Or use a male escort (weird but no baggage)

The human urge to fuck is strong

@Awalkintime

I would say they are rapists as consent can't be bought.

Yes, it can. Consent is up to the individual to decide.

And I don’t think that any of the men actually believe that the women are into it. Because otherwise why would they pay?
I believe they do think the women are into it, the lady herself wants to build up a regular clientele they'll try do a good job, plus many are rated online by clients.

I'd a friend who called sex lines regularly he was genuinely shocked the ladies weren't genuinely cumming on the phone.
Diaries of a call girl and similar shows reinforce the illusions. Then the music industry WAP feeds into their fantasy of women liking it like that.

If they take precautions and the person selling the sex is doing so of their own volition and comfortable with that choice then who are we to judge?

A man cannot know if a prostitute is truly doing so of her own volition and comfortable though, that's part of the point. He's willing to risk the fact she isn't and is in fact abused, coerced, trafficked etc. He's willing to risk that just because he wants sex. To me, that isn't a risk a decent person would take.

*You're assuming women are 'providing a service' rather than doing whatever it takes to survive/escape other abuse.

You're falling for the 'empowered sex worker' lie rather than the 'prostituted woman' reality.*

It depends on the situation. High end escorts are less common but they do exist. I've seen several documentaries on C4 etc. And the women there are happy with their choice of work. Their clients pay £££. I wouldn't say their clients are exploitative, just sad/lonely as PP said

However I think everyone can agree that paying a vulnerable woman on a street corner is awful and essentially coercion, using money

So it depends. In many cases, yes, the men are bad but it depends. For me, I don't think paying for sexual services is bad in and of itself- it's bad because women are usually desperate and it's a proper choice

Marguerite2000
If a person wouldn't consent without the payment then they aren't giving that consent freely and willingly. No 20 year old is going to have sex with a fat, smelly fat 60 year old willingly so if that wouldn't happen without payment then they really don't want to do that. Also men know this - they are going to have sex with a person they know is doing this because they have to, not because they want to, so therefore they are willingly going into this knowing this person doesn't want to do it so doesn't give full consent.

They also are going into this knowing that some will be trafficked, they do not know which ones but still go into this situation knowing the person they are with could be being forced to do this. They don't care if it is the person they are with who is being forced. They go into this with that full knowledge. It is paid rape in my opinion.

I would say they are rapists as consent can't be bought.

Same. Lack of choice is not the same as active choice and certainly isn't the same as freely given consent. It's sick and seedy, no one has a right to fuck another person simply because they've handed over a bundle of tenners.

If you want to see what sort of men use prostitutes then take a look at www.punternet.com/index.php/reviews It's vile.

Yes, it can. Consent is up to the individual to decide

Consent amd answers etc can he manipulated.

If you cant say no , whether it's because everyone is watching you with baited breath or your pimp who wants his cut is in the car outside waiting fir the money then its not really a "yes" is it.

No, they are commodified rapists.

Not all sex workers are forced into the job, some enjoy it and have chosen it. If a man chooses to pay for sex with a sex worker who consents, I don't see a problem.

@RaindropsOnRosie

Not all sex workers are forced into the job, some enjoy it and have chosen it. If a man chooses to pay for sex with a sex worker who consents, I don't see a problem.

And how pray can we know if they consent?

If they take precautions and the person selling the sex is doing so of their own volition and comfortable with that choice then who are we to judge?

And there’s the point, how many men do you think, are ensuring they aren’t paying a trafficked or coerced woman? How do you think they find out? Or could it be that they just don’t give a shit? So yeah, I’ll fucking judge these men as much as I want.

@Awalkintime

Marguerite2000 If a person wouldn't consent without the payment then they aren't giving that consent freely and willingly. No 20 year old is going to have sex with a fat, smelly fat 60 year old willingly so if that wouldn't happen without payment then they really don't want to do that. Also men know this - they are going to have sex with a person they know is doing this because they have to, not because they want to, so therefore they are willingly going into this knowing this person doesn't want to do it so doesn't give full consent.

They also are going into this knowing that some will be trafficked, they do not know which ones but still go into this situation knowing the person they are with could be being forced to do this. They don't care if it is the person they are with who is being forced. They go into this with that full knowledge. It is paid rape in my opinion.

Agree

How can you tell the difference given prostituted women are terrified to act like it's not their choice?

And no, op, I don't think someone who buys the use of a woman's body is ever a good person.