Can you be a good person if you pay for sex? [Content warning: descriptions of sexual abuse]

[Lave]

Do you think there's a grey area or are all men who pay for sex abusive?

I wouldn't say they are necessarily abusive (though I'm sure many will be) but I think they often share a huge lack of awareness in terms of what they're doing. The sense of entitlement is always astounding amongst those men and I think they share a belief that women are not really human in the way that men are. It's misogyny at its deepest.

I think the men who pay for sex are thinking purely for their own satisfaction and nothing else. It doesn’t cross their minds to wonder why a woman would give up her body for money. I have watched many documentaries on this and it always amazes me that these men actually genuinely believe the woman enjoys it.

I cant think why a good person would want/need to pay for sex

I don't think it's helpful to think about people as 'good' or 'bad'. It's way too simplistic.

Most people are just people, and they make decisions. Sometimes those are good decisions, sometimes they are bad ones.

Personally I don't think that paying for sex is a good decision, for anyone. But I don't think that in itself it marks someone out as a 'bad person'. I think it says, this is a person who sometimes makes bad decisions.

@HollowTalk

I wouldn't say they are necessarily abusive (though I'm sure many will be) but I think they often share a huge lack of awareness in terms of what they're doing. The sense of entitlement is always astounding amongst those men and I think they share a belief that women are not really human in the way that men are. It's misogyny at its deepest.

That's a really good post, Hollow. Thank you.

Ex sex worker here - hence the topic.

I'm in the process of healing and have alot of unanswered questions like this one. It's helpful to hear what other women, who weren't in the industry, think.

@Thewholeshackshimmy

I think the men who pay for sex are thinking purely for their own satisfaction and nothing else. It doesn’t cross their minds to wonder why a woman would give up her body for money. I have watched many documentaries on this and it always amazes me that these men actually genuinely believe the woman enjoys it.

Yes!

The cognitive dissonance is real.

I think they have to tell themselves that, because to acknowledge the fact that the woman isn't into it, would force them to look at themselves in ways then don't want to see themselves.

@BIoodyStupidJohnson

I don't think it's helpful to think about people as 'good' or 'bad'. It's way too simplistic.

Most people are just people, and they make decisions. Sometimes those are good decisions, sometimes they are bad ones.

Personally I don't think that paying for sex is a good decision, for anyone. But I don't think that in itself it marks someone out as a 'bad person'. I think it says, this is a person who sometimes makes bad decisions.

Another good perspective there BSJ, thank you.

I don’t think any man who pays for sex is a decent man, no. He is, at the very best, a selfish misogynist, and at the worst he actively chooses the objectification, sexualisation and abuse of women.

I wish you all the luck in your healing, OP.

Paying for sex is an abusive act. So yes, men who abuse prostituted women and children are abusers.

Most men who do this, do it many times.

So yes, repeatedly, deliberately and knowingly abusing others makes you a bad person. Even if you also give to charity, don’t drop litter, like kittens or are vegetarian.

I think often it's cognitive dissonance and those same people might have to make themselves believe the sex worker enjoys it, or because they pay hundreds to a woman who owns property on adultwork they're morally superior to those who pay 40 quid to someone walking the streets with an addiction problem.

There are people who think eating dogs in China is barbaric but eating pigs is okay, or who will only buy fair trade bananas/coffee etc but shop at stores known for using sweat shops. I don't think many people are just good or bad, as above it's about choices.

And I don’t think that any of the men actually believe that the women are into it. Because otherwise why would they pay?

They complain bitterly if the woman isn’t good enough at pretending she enjoys it or if she looks ill or injured. They know it’s abuse, they are paying her to pretend it’s not.

It’s just the story that they tell themselves / their mates so that they can go on justifying it.

It’s the same as men who sexually abuse children. They say it’s not abuse, it’s loving and consensual. It’s just Pearl clutchers and bigots who don’t understand .

And that it’s better that a lovely man who loves and cares about the child does this than a nasty rough teenaged boy. And that what they and the child have is special and different and the usual rules don’t apply to them.

Johns say all the same things but they know it’s a pack of lies.

Aren't they all objectifying women @Writersblock2 ? they reduce them down to their sole purpose of providing a vagina (or whatever) for their pleasure. They are objectified, dehumanised and degraded.

So no, imo, you cannot ever be a good person and pay for sex.

What about women that pay for it? I know it is a smaller proportion but still interesting. And then more so women who will pay a surrogate, I personally see both paying to rent a uterus and paying to enter a vagina as broadly the same, and definitely abusive.
So yes I think abusive but I think the people taking part in this wouldn't see themselves as abusers.

I wish you the best as you heal.

I think often they are just sad or lonely or both .

A single man or indeed women wanting sex doesn’t make them the devil, does it. Prostitution is one of the oldest professions in the world. I’d do it if I got desperate I’ve no issues with admitting to that.
No disrespect but you can’t have it both ways provide a service then vilify people who use it.

I would say they are rapists as consent can't be bought.

I don’t think that all men who’ve paid for sex are bad. I’m sure some of them are complete and utter scum bags, but the ones I know are nice men. Stupid and young, in a macho environment where it was normal behaviour, and it’s not something they’ve repeated since.

But I guess that’s easy for me to say as I’ve not been paid by them for sex and the sex worker that they saw will have a completely different opinion perhaps.

I couldn’t be with someone who thinks it’s ok to pay for sex. They would not be a good person in my opinion and it’s abusive behaviour. Using someone else’s body to satisfy your selfish needs is abusive.

I strongly disagree with surrogacy as well.

No disrespect but you can’t have it both ways provide a service then vilify people who use it

Fair comment, however when I started out I wasn't doing so willingly. I was 18 and in an abusive relationship.

Alot of sex workers are also survivors of child rape, neglect and abuse. Many are coerced, trafficked or dependent on the money.

I'm sure there are a % who are well rounded and healthy individuals, but those women are the exception and not the rule IME.

You only have to spend a few minutes reading punting sites to see what some of these men think of the women they see, they have no respect for them.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

A single man or indeed women wanting sex doesn’t make them the devil, does it. Prostitution is one of the oldest professions in the world. I’d do it if I got desperate I’ve no issues with admitting to that. No disrespect but you can’t have it both ways provide a service then vilify people who use it.

I bloody can. It is not providing a service like a fucking cafe serving drinks. It is not a profession. People imaging they could do it are also abusive imo.

I don’t think it automatically makes them bad people.
The world is too complicated for that.

Yes, it is possible to be so.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

A single man or indeed women wanting sex doesn’t make them the devil, does it. Prostitution is one of the oldest professions in the world. I’d do it if I got desperate I’ve no issues with admitting to that. No disrespect but you can’t have it both ways provide a service then vilify people who use it.

You're assuming women are 'providing a service' rather than doing whatever it takes to survive/escape other abuse.

You're falling for the 'empowered sex worker' lie rather than the 'prostituted woman' reality.

Could you imagine having casual sex with somebody then going online afterwards and writing an in-depth review of their anatomy and rating their performance for the world to see, for the purpose of influencing others to go and pay them for sex too? It's grim.

I don't know one woman that would behave that way about a ONS, FWB or whatever.