Can you be a good person if you pay for sex? [Content warning: descriptions of sexual abuse]

[Lave]

Do you think there's a grey area or are all men who pay for sex abusive?

'Most men think sex is an essential part of their life… hence the entitlement. Those men care nothing but their own satisfaction and gratitude. Part of that … is the self belief they give enjoyment in return! Ha!'

Again I don't think it's most tbh.

With the normalisation of the sex industry it's increasing I imagine. Mainly in situations like stags overseas.

But even with that I wouldn't say most.

And those who do at a stag, it's a very different scenario to booking up for yourself at home.

I'm not defending men in general here but equally the all men do it idea is just incorrect.

Lua they don't want to know.

EG for these men the idea that them being paid to be alone with a man twice their size who has paid them for a fuck- I've never seen one say well of course that would be fine by me!
Just like being paid for any other work and it's good money. I've got zero problem with that!

@NiceGerbil

Lua they don't want to know.

EG for these men the idea that them being paid to be alone with a man twice their size who has paid them for a fuck- I've never seen one say well of course that would be fine by me!
Just like being paid for any other work and it's good money. I've got zero problem with that!

You keep mentioning that but how is that at all relevant? The same man who might never agree to sell sexual services for money, can still hire another person who does consent. What does one person's reluctance have to do with another's consent?

If you needed cash urgently. That you would do odd jobs like mowing lawns, assembling flat pack, washing cars. Without the cash you won't have food/ make your rent etc.

Then you'd take the money from a man for sex? It's a service no different to any other.

So you would, obviously. Right?

It is relevant because you say for the women who sell sex it's no different to doing some cleaning or leafleting or doing s few hours in a friend's shop.

If it's like that for them in terms of work. Then it's the same for men. Obviously. I think you're a man? So....

The same man who might never agree to sell sexual services for money, can still hire another person who does consent. What does one person's reluctance have to do with another's consent?

Because it clearly shows that you consider that "below" you somehow. It shows that despite all of your protestations, you DO consider sex to be different. You just won't admit that because you like justifying rape.

Again, what's your point? If I needed money, I personally would probably do odd jobs. Some men would/do sell sex.

Same thing for women. Some who need money do odd jobs, others sell sex.

But YOU will buy it but never consider selling it.

Because YOU are above that. Sex is different for YOU. YET you use other people's bodies.

Nice.

Probably more like wouldn't consider it

For those who wouldn't, and I've never had a poster of the it's just work type say yeah no problem.

The reason given is often well I'm straight.

The answer is of course

So what? For the seller, sexuality is irrelevant. It's about sex you don't want. With men you don't want. For many/ most performing sex acts that they would not want in consensual sex.

That seems to be Different though. How do they know the sexual orientation of the women? They don't.

It's assumed they are straight and therefore 'just' having sex which they would have anyway (??!!) and so.. what's the problem.

Gay for pay is a thing in gay porn, chaps! Why the reluctance?

It's a service like any other.

Just seen recent response.

Like a host of other posters in the past with the same view.

They could just say of course I would! Checkmate.

It's anonymous.

But the idea of even lying to say yes on an anonymous forum doesn't happen.

Because they can't even bring themselves to write it...

Or because they're being very honest. Strong possibility.

So on that basis.

Upstream.

Why wouldn't you do it, even to save yourself from going hungry?

You'd do odd jobs. Mow the lawn. Paint a fence. This is no different. It doesn't require qualifications or anything.

So be honest. Why not? Even if you were totally desperate for money, not eaten for 3 days type situation.

Why on earth not?

Upstream whatshisname is just really invested in us thinking you can be a good person and pay for sex.

It really annoys him that most women don’t think this is possible.

I don't think it's about being annoyed.

I get the feeling (may be wrong) it's to do with an underlying discomfort with it. Guilt.

@Megasausagehead

But YOU will buy it but never consider selling it.

Because YOU are above that. Sex is different for YOU. YET you use other people's bodies.

Nice.

What exactly is your point? At this point in my life I'm fortunate enough to not have to work in a warehouse, say. And I wouldn't take that job if you offered it to me now. But I still buy off Amazon.

The fact that I wouldn't do X for money, doesn't preclude me from employing someone else who would. As long as they choose to do it.

I'm not getting what you're not getting.

This is an exercise in putting yourself in someone else's shoes. It's not an unusual thing to do!

Imagine. Ignore thinking that would never happen. It has.

Imagine you have not eaten for 3 days. You have no way of getting money. There is no one you can ask/ no social support / no way of getting cash. No odd jobs. No nothing.

The point is not to think about how that could have happened. It has happened.

I dunno imagine there's been a massive disaster. It's like mad Max or something.

Everything is fucked.

You have an offer for cash. A massive bloke will pay you in food for an hour with you.

Ok imagine that conversation. How much you need the money.

What do you say and how do you feel about it?

Does it feel different than mowing s lawn or similar?

You need the food.

If you say yes it's a fair transaction for a service like any other.

Come on this isn't difficult! Just use a bit of imagination.

@nicegerbil

You can't make any assumptions about my sexuality or proclivities. For all you know I might be gay and have employed male prostitutes. Or not. What we're discussing is the principle, not my personal activities and potential transactions.

I don't know what I'd do of I hadn't eaten for 3 days and was desperate. Probably very little I wouldn't do to be honest. But how is this relevant?

The fact is there is a person who has chosen to offer sexual services for money, and they have done so out of their own free will. What is your argument for a punter to not employ their service?

Just to be clear, if anyone mistreats a prostitute they are definitely not a good person. But the OP's question wasn't about clear arseholes. It was whether there is something inherently wrong in using a prostitute, and I don't think there is.

By all means, if you have a clear argument why it's wrong, please present it. No silly what if questions, and no loaded terms calculated to evoke an empty emotional response. Just a straightforward moral/ethical/logical argument why it's wrong.

You have an offer for cash. A massive bloke will pay you in food for an hour with you.

Ok imagine that conversation. How much you need the money.

What do you say and how do you feel about it?*

I wouldn't like it, because a cock up my arse would be quite painful. But would I do it? Who knows, quite possibly. If I was desperate enough. What's your point though?

Around the world and all over the place that is the choice.

When universal credit came in there were plenty of press items about women who had started selling sex in order to pay the rent/ feed their children etc.

They made that choice.

@LimeRedBanana

Upstream whatshisname is just really invested in us thinking you can be a good person and pay for sex.

It really annoys him that most women don’t think this is possible.

To be honest I couldn't give a flying fig what you think of me hypothetically using a prostitute. I'm posting because I don't like the false narrative of someone employing a consensual service being lambasted for it.

@UpstreamSwimmer It is a pity you won't open your mind to the scenarios posted by pp's.
I'm a firm believer "when you know better, you don't better" every day is a school day, you've been given the opportunity to learn from this thread and you are adamant paying a woman for sex is acceptable.

Typo above. "When you know better you do better"

@NiceGerbil

'Most men think sex is an essential part of their life… hence the entitlement. Those men care nothing but their own satisfaction and gratitude. Part of that … is the self belief they give enjoyment in return! Ha!'

Again I don't think it's most tbh.

With the normalisation of the sex industry it's increasing I imagine. Mainly in situations like stags overseas.

But even with that I wouldn't say most.

And those who do at a stag, it's a very different scenario to booking up for yourself at home.

You miss understand what I mean…

Sex is very important to men … more so than women. It’s a biological need. They are only a few with strong constitutions who can withstand these urges. Most men would put it’s importance high up, following food, water, shelter, warmth and sleep.

The man that do pay for sex … only care for their own sexual gratification. Their justification is that it’s a necessary part of life and it’s an essential entitlement. I don’t know if these men and women that do pay for sex are bad/good… I don’t believe it’s as black/white.

I have read a few ukpunter thread and they are vile. These men are perverts and see women as only sex objects.

I don’t know how I would react if a close friend said she was a sex worker? If I know a male acquaintance paid for sex… I would not want to engage with them alone or ever again.

'To be honest I couldn't give a flying fig what you think of me hypothetically using a prostitute. I'm posting because I don't like the false narrative of someone employing a consensual service being lambasted for it.'

Why?
What does it matter to you?
This is a single thread on a single board in a corner of a very large chat site?

How did you even find it?
Why is it so important to you that you decided to post and keep posting? None of this is pointing at any individual. What is said here will have no impact on the freedom to pay for sex here. The vast majority of men whether punters or not would not know or care about what's said here.

What's your interest?

If you can't bear to see groups of people 'lambasted' on the internet then you must be busy! I mean on pretty much every topic you can think of, there's going to be a chatboard somewhere with lambasting going on.

Why this topic? How did you come across this thread? Do you have other topics you get stuck in, on other sites, to protect the innocent?

I found it under the trending threads. And because I'm invested in the argument, I keep going. I could ask you the same question, why do you keep posting?

Because we know what it is like to be in that position and make those "choices".

What I will never understand is how men or women can justify using another person's body like a peice of disposable trash. And thinking that this is ok because you paid money. Without that money, they wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire. It is exploitation.

Don't want my kids to do it, or me to do it personally, but fine to treat others like a wank sock.

Oh and to the PP above SEX IS NOT A BIOLOGICAL NEED FOR MEN. Its 2021, wake up sleepy head. Nobody has a right to sex. Ever.

'Sex is very important to men … more so than women. It’s a biological need. They are only a few with strong constitutions who can withstand these urges. Most men would put it’s importance high up, following food, water, shelter, warmth and sleep.'

You don't think much of men as a group do you.

In all the their massive range of personalities etc.

They are all... Essentially driven by their urge to fuck...

All of them. Every single one in the world. Irrespective of age. Sex drive. Etc.
Every single man on the planet.

There seems to be a pretty strong suggestion that if any man, that's any man on the planet. Apart from the very rare ones who are happy with their imagination and a wank and can overcome this apparently overwhelming need to fuck an actual person. Will rape if they can't find another way to fuck into an actual person.

If that's what you meant? I mean it was quite clear to me.

That throws up an array of questions but I won't ask them until I'm sure that's what you meant.

In general you have a really awful view of men.

Most are fine. Pretty much.

Honestly.