Is DS being an arse or am I nosey?

[Stirfriedbrian]

DS is 20, still lives at home, doing fine at his apprenticeship, drives, etc.

Since he turned about 16/17 he’s become very moody and defiant. He’s often very short and rude, not a bit helpful, won’t put himself out for any of us. For instance if you need a short lift somewhere he’ll be very evasive as to whether he can do it until last minute, he seems to love the power of you not knowing until last minute.

He’s very secretive, I have little clue who his friends are, I have no idea where he goes, he may just say he’s going bowling or to play snooker if your lucky to have him in a good mood that day.

He’s been out very late in the evenings lately and he’s let slip he has a girlfriend. Fine, I’m pleased for him. I asked the usual questions about her, where she’s from etc. That day he was obviously in a good mood as he volunteered the fact he’d booked a hotel tomorrow for them to have a night away.

I’ve just got in from work and casually asked whether tomorrow was still on and what hotel he was staying in.

Cue a big huff ‘here we go again, you’ve got to know everything I do, everywhere I go etc’ I’m just interested in his life! It’s common courtesy to say roughly where you’ll be I’d think, I don’t want a full breakdown of their itinerary, just an idea of where they are staying.

I reminded him that if he’s not mature enough to be open and honest about his whereabouts then maybe he’s not mature enough to do these things.

Apparently I’m not a ‘normal’ parent for asking.

By the way he lives at home rent free whilst he’s on his apprenticeship and he’s saving.

I feel I should tell him if he feels so secretive and childish maybe he’d be better off getting his own place, he can do what he likes without any questions then 🤯

@Stirfriedbrian

you're not being unreasonable 🌸

All I’ve done is try to be a good mum, myself and DH are a good team and between us we manage easily all the household stuff, DS is up really early for work and is always tired after work, it’s no hardship to us to stick a wash on or sort a bit of food.
DD is 18 and is a completely different person, she’s kind and appreciative of everything we do. She will cook for herself but we always do the washing and ironing as there’s no need for them to do it, it’s no hardship to us.

We don’t charge either of them ‘rent’ as they are both either studying with a PT job or apprenticeship. They save a lot. I just don’t understand why DS feels the need to be so bloody awkward.

Perhaps it's time he flew the nest 🌸

@Stirfriedbrian

All I’ve done is try to be a good mum, myself and DH are a good team and between us we manage easily all the household stuff, DS is up really early for work and is always tired after work, it’s no hardship to us to stick a wash on or sort a bit of food. DD is 18 and is a completely different person, she’s kind and appreciative of everything we do. She will cook for herself but we always do the washing and ironing as there’s no need for them to do it, it’s no hardship to us.

We don’t charge either of them ‘rent’ as they are both either studying with a PT job or apprenticeship. They save a lot. I just don’t understand why DS feels the need to be so bloody awkward.

He has a different personality than you and that’s ok. Just because you are happy making chit chat and offering details, doesn’t mean he is. I’m a very private person and I don’t offer out details of my private life to my family. Allow him some privacy of ask him to move out. It can feel really suffocating when you are so private but are constantly asked to share details.

He is awkward because he has been allowed to behave like like this.

It isn't complicated.

You sound lovely as does your husband but that doesn't mean you can't have reared a selfish, rude pup.

You have allowed this situation to continue and now he feels completely entitled to treat you both like shit.

You are the parents here, and you both have accepted this rudeness and disrespect over an extended period of time.

He has ZERO respect for you.

Why would he?

You don't behave like people that think they deserve respect, so he treats you like he does.

This isn't complicated.

We teach people how to treat us.

At times my teens might not like me when I have laid down the law, and give me guff, but they know better than to try and treat me with disrespect.

As I said to my eldest years ago "I love you dearly but I won't be treated badly by ANYONE, not even you, so be very careful how you speak to me"

OP,
Your son needs to learn respect before its too late.

It's abundantly clear he has none for either your husband or yourself.

That is on you both.

Why do you need to take annual leave to drive your dd to her job.

I do feel sympathy for you but at the same time I do feel you brought this on yourself.

The point of parenting is to prepare children for the adult world. Your son is now an adult he’s not contributing anything and although he’s on a low wage he should be contributing something to get him used to the principle.

He should be doing his own washing and he should be sorting his own food. It’s fine if you’re putting a wash on to put in something of his, or if you’re cooking to make something but he needs to understand that he is contributing fundamentally as an adult.

He is behaving like a very spoilt entitled child. Not even doing the basic adult courtesy that if you’re living in a house with someone they have some idea when you’re going to be out what time you’re coming home.
He’s not even bothering to contribute with lifts.

He seems to feel put upon that he has to live with his parents, when he absolutely could get a room in a shared house somewhere. If his wage is super low he may be claim the housing element of universal credit.

So you and your husband need to sit down and stop this entitled brattishness.

Give him a choice - that his behaviour is so bad either moves or he pulls himself together and contributes - but this can’t go on. You are not doing him any favours if be cannot wash his clothes, cook his food or consider other people around him.

I reminded him that if he’s not mature enough to be open and honest about his whereabouts then maybe he’s not mature enough to do these things

Why the fuck would a 20 year old need to tell you what hotel they’re staying at? I would definitely be moving out if I was him.

@TatianaBis

I do feel sympathy for you but at the same time I do feel you brought this on yourself.

The point of parenting is to prepare children for the adult world. Your son is now an adult he’s not contributing anything and although he’s on a low wage he should be contributing something to get him used to the principle.

He should be doing his own washing and he should be sorting his own food. It’s fine if you’re putting a wash on to put in something of his, or if you’re cooking to make something but he needs to understand that he is contributing fundamentally as an adult.

He is behaving like a very spoilt entitled child. Not even doing the basic adult courtesy that if you’re living in a house with someone they have some idea when you’re going to be out what time you’re coming home.
He’s not even bothering to contribute with lifts.

He seems to feel put upon that he has to live with his parents, when he absolutely could get a room in a shared house somewhere. If his wage is super low he may be claim the housing element of universal credit.

So you and your husband need to sit down and stop this entitled brattishness.

Give him a choice - that his behaviour is so bad either moves or he pulls himself together and contributes - but this can’t go on. You are not doing him any favours if be cannot wash his clothes, cook his food or consider other people around him.

That is all good advice but it still doesn't mean he has to discuss his plans, why does his mother need to know the hotel? If he tells her the hotel what will the next question be?

@Stirfriedbrian

All I’ve done is try to be a good mum, myself and DH are a good team and between us we manage easily all the household stuff, DS is up really early for work and is always tired after work, it’s no hardship to us to stick a wash on or sort a bit of food. DD is 18 and is a completely different person, she’s kind and appreciative of everything we do. She will cook for herself but we always do the washing and ironing as there’s no need for them to do it, it’s no hardship to us.

We don’t charge either of them ‘rent’ as they are both either studying with a PT job or apprenticeship. They save a lot. I just don’t understand why DS feels the need to be so bloody awkward.

My MIL would have said the same about all she tried to do was be a good mum. She drove my DH round the bend with her questions and needing to know every detail of his life. He reached a point where he didn't share anything with her because one question led to another and another and another.

He did go no contact at one time, she was better for a while and it was possible to have normal contact but she soon reverted.

She was the same with out children and I heard her asking them inappropriate questions and that was it for me and I made it clear if I ever heard it again she wouldn't see them.

He shoudl be respectful but so should you.

I don't think a 20 year old needs to tell you his plans but I think you've blurred the lines as he is still treated like a child at home.

Being a good mum doesn't mean that you treat your children like they're 15 for the rest of their lives.

DS is up really early for work and is always tired after work, it’s no hardship to us to stick a wash on or sort a bit of food.

It may be no hardship for you - but he is working, he is tired. This is life. Life also encompasses sorting out your own life admin - food, laundry at a minimum. You are not allowing him to become an adult.
You may think you are treating him as an adult and you do the same for the other adult in your home - your DH. But he has never been independent, has no concept of the amount of slack others are picking up for him and therefore doesn't appreciate it because he does know.

Personally I think given his limited income, you are right to allow him to continue living at home. But I think you and your DH need to have a discussion with him about his contribution, and as it can't be money it needs to be his time. And there needs to be a general conversation about civility - and he needs to be allowed to tell you you are being intrusive - and that seems to be what he feels.

My DM is like this. Constant barrage of questions, because as someone said upthread one question leads to another and another. It's like being interrogated.

Your DS is an adult. If he decides to share his plans with you, great, if not then leave off. Some people like to share every aspect of their life with family, some don't!

People saying ‘FFS it’s a perfectly normal question; OP is just making conversation’ or ‘I am 110 and my mother still asks where I am going, lol’ are missing the point. The son has made perfectly clear that he doesn’t enjoy being questioned about where he’s going, what he’s doing and who with. None of that is relevant to whether he gets his washing done or not - it’s not some weird laundry-based quid pro quo.

Of course it’s not particularly outlandish to say ‘Ooh, that’s nice; whereabouts?’ or similar when someone tells you they’re going away for the night. But why would you need to know the specific hotel? If someone asked me where I was going, I’d say Bath or York or Brighton… wherever. I wouldn’t say ‘The Crown Hotel, 17 Highway Road, Brighton BG2 7RE’. Also, I’ve had my own home for 20 years, so if I’m going to a hotel for the night, it’s because I’m treating myself to a night away somewhere nice (or travelling for work). For a 20 year-old with his first serious girlfriend, it’s more likely to be a night of shagging without the worry of being overheard by their parents, to be blunt. Has it not occurred to those of you saying he should of course tell his mother that maybe he’s embarrassed? That he doesn’t want to say ‘I’m going to a cheap hotel three miles down the road’ because it’s obviously not a spa day or a trip of historical interest?

OP - your son not tipping up financially and not doing more around the house are completely separate issues to him not telling you the details of his life. You’re a grown woman with adult children - if you’re not happy, tell him you want rent, or for him to do his own laundry and cooking, or to contribute in some other agreed way. Why haven’t you? Is it because you want to hold it over him when he won’t tell you what you want to know?

You say everything has to be a battle with him. Well it takes two to create a battle. You don’t have to push to know where he is, with whom and why he’s there. You have a choice - make it.

You say everything has to be a battle with him. Well it takes two to create a battle. You don’t have to push to know where he is, with whom and why he’s there. You have a choice - make it.

This is not true...

and you have completely changed OP's narrative..

you also sound very very angry 🌸

QueenBee52, the OP said :

’I have no patience with the controlling aspect of deliberately withholding information, even as a small child he wanted the upper hand, he’d starve himself as he knew refusing to eat would upset me, everything has always been a battle with him.’

@QueenBee52

You say everything has to be a battle with him. Well it takes two to create a battle. You don’t have to push to know where he is, with whom and why he’s there. You have a choice - make it.

This is not true...

and you have completely changed OP's narrative..

you also sound very very angry 🌸

I haven’t changed the OP’s narrative at all. And where is the angry bit?

You’ve already tried the passive aggressive ‘Awwh, are okay? Sorry everything is clearly so awful for you 🌸🌸’ line on another poster on this thread. It didn’t come off the first time. The second time, it just looks naff and desperate.

@Ghosttile

QueenBee52, the OP said :

’I have no patience with the controlling aspect of deliberately withholding information, even as a small child he wanted the upper hand, he’d starve himself as he knew refusing to eat would upset me, everything has always been a battle with him.’

Thank you @Ghosttile.

@QueenBee52 - would that be a different kind of ‘not true’ to the one I’m used to? The true kind?

Not true 🌸

Are you unbalanced in some way? You’ve already claimed something I said wasn’t true, then completely ignored the quote from another poster proving it WAS true. Now you’re pretending you haven’t tried this rather cheap tactic before.

@QueenBee52

But if you've been questioned on almost everything since you were a child, it's not general chitchat. It may seem small, but it's yet another micro intrusion on your private life and it's absolutely stifling.

You can't understand if you haven't experienced it. If you can only see this as polite conversation, consider yourself lucky.

Have you sought therapy for what happened to you? it sounds like you might need support 🌸

Here it is. You must be remarkably forgetful.