to NOT think women's rights are being attacked?

[MissPrimaryCrafts]

Wanted to namechange in case this turns into a bloodbath but new users not being accepted so we'll see how it goes!

I realise this could be a bit provocative but I'm not looking for an argument, I just genuinely am finding it hard to understand the other side of this so would genuinely like a polite dicussion so I can understand better. Apologies in advance if it sparks natiness in replies

The issue being transphobia and womens rights...I've seen a lot of talk in threads recently about how 'anyone standing up for women is apparantly and transphobe and TERF' and that women are losing their rights and I just don't see how.

I assume the main issue is with allowing trans women into female only spaces, and people feeling like it's no longer really a 'female only' space as men could just say they're a woman and be allowed in?

I understand this as being a problem...but only to an extent. Firstly I feel like I wonder how much more access this would actually give men? Like honestly, if a man is going to go a commit a crime against a woman, is seeing a 'women only' sign on a changing room door really going to stop him? Is he really going to pretend to identify as a woman to enter the space, or is he just going to enter the space? Does allowing trans women really change things?

Also, if that IS your issue with allowing trans people into female only spaces, then your issue isn't with trans women, it's with men. If you're worried about men entering the space by 'pretending' to be trans, then the potential problems are because of men, not because of trans women. So surely there are better ways to address our issues with men committing crimes than to make sure trans women are excluded from certain spaces? Aren't there other ways we as a society can address the prevalence of crimes against women?

Of course - this is all if you 'believe' that being trans is a real thing, I'm aware many people don't think it's real and I think that's a separate issue. But if you think trans people do 'exist'/it is a real thing, but you want to bar them from female only spaces, I just wonder why? What do you think of the above?

Sorry this is an essay!

@OlympicProcrastinator

“I note we used the same phase smile

#ImNotHavingIt 🤣“

When we get TWAW shoved down our throats, we have a new go to phrase 💪💪

👏

^And as for rape crisis CEO being a transwomen, my god, that pisses on every single woman who has ever been raped or sexually assaulted.^

Can you explain why please?

Because they are male and in a place where women who have been sexually assaulted by males have come for refuge.

@cricketmum84

No.

Because it's fucking obvious to any woman whose been the recipient of male violence.

Ask yourself the question why any man would want to enter female only spaces?

If they genuinely "felt like a woman" they would empathise with women and respect their boundaries.

If they don't then they quite frankly don't belong in a female only space.

gluteustothemaximus
And as for rape crisis CEO being a transwomen, my god, that pisses on every single woman who has ever been raped or sexually assaulted.

Can you explain why please?

Because I believe the position was advertised for women only. But a trans woman got the position. Because 'transwomen are women'.

Having been raped, and sexually assaulted, I can confirm 100% that a biological man as CEO of a rape crisis centre, is not in any way appropriate. In the same way a trans woman (biological man) carrying out my smear test. Why would 'her' feelings, trump my real experiences (plural) of sexual assault?

Or a biological man being present at a woman's refuge.

I don't understand how anyone can't see that.

Also because - and I worked with/for RC as a volunteer for years

rape crisis was set up BY WOMEN for WOMEN - it was a response to the lack of support, belief and care of WOMEN by a patriarchal society

they where run as collectives by woman

That is our history and tradition

A man has no fucking clue about that - even if he iD’s as a woman

That is why I am pissed off

If they genuinely "felt like a woman" they would empathise with women and respect their boundaries.

Oh my god, yes, this.

www.womenarehuman.com/rape-crisis-centre-selects-male-as-ceo-despite-position-being-open-to-women-only/

Also their priority is trans rights first - so if TWAW and a female victim of a sexual assault asks for a female examiner only and is confronted with a TW, can you not see how damaging that would be to the victim? Gaslighting at its worst and not good trauma based practice.

This is a political appointment with huge ramifications for women's services in Scotland. The Scottish government take their advice from services like rape crisis. My understanding is that they have advised that having a mixed service is not an issue. Clearly that's not true.

But transwomen can get raped too? I think it is brilliant that they have a rape crisis center.

I do believe that a male sounding voice (or anyone perceived to be male) is completely inappropriate for women who have been raped. It must be beyond triggering.

But this should be easy to fix. Surely this rape crisis centre is split so that born women always can speak to female rape counsellors and transwomen can have speak to transwomen counsellors? And in different buildings?

Or trans women could fund raise, staff and run their own support centres - like women do

But that's not what this is!!!
This is the rape crisis Centre in Edinburgh for women!!!!!! There is no separate centre for trans women. Women will.no longer be allowed to ask for women practitioners or therapists as TWAW.

@LittleMyTopKnot

But transwomen can get raped too? I think it is brilliant that they have a rape crisis center.

I do believe that a male sounding voice (or anyone perceived to be male) is completely inappropriate for women who have been raped. It must be beyond triggering.

But this should be easy to fix. Surely this rape crisis centre is split so that born women always can speak to female rape counsellors and transwomen can have speak to transwomen counsellors? And in different buildings?

They won't agree to that, that would be "othering them" they are women remember, they must deal with the women. 🙄

I do not want any males in safe spaces for females

Trans women are not women or female they are males even if they tell me they are

I want to feel safe and I want the space to be safe for women and girls

It’s awful - as a survivor of rape and sexual abuse and as a woman who worked for years to run a support line, support women in court, in sexual health clinics and in recovery it’s appalling to me that men can encroach on this because they want to

Also I never think I will have to escort a trans woman through a line of screaming anti abortion protesters to get the MAP or post rape abortion support like I did so many WOMEN

@cricketmum84 are you fishing? Pretty obvious why.

I had written out a long post about Rape Crisis Edinburgh providing services for various groups of people (including transgender people) so why it was a curious decision to employ a transwoman after invoking the occupational exemptions allowing only females to apply as allowed under the Equality Act 2010 as part of the job description.

And then I read this on their website -

*Women only spaces

We offer women only spaces (which are inclusive of trans women) in our centre on Tuesdays 4pm – 7pm, Wednesdays 12.30pm – 4pm and Fridays 9am – 12.30pm. The rest of the week we offer appointments to people of all genders.*

For fuck's sake.

Some males feel more comfortable identifying themselves as what they imagine women to be, which is okay up to a point. Gender nonconformity is a fine thing. But it should have fuck all to do with women. Males don't belong in women's spaces.

Also there has been women who have posted on MN that this person is hugely unprofessional during counseling sessions when they have done them. They look at their phone and are uninterested.

Also it is worth reading their own words in old interviews. This person enjoyed the ‘power’ of being in a call centre in India, choosing a female name and being able to decide whether poverty stricken women in the US got funds to feed their families.

This is evident in the tone of their interview. Absolutely no compassion for the women involved shown at all.

And as PP mentioned resigned from the SNP because the bill removing the choice of traumatised females to insist on a female examiner. What person who had any empathy for raped women would do that?

What person who represented and was responsible for the running of a rape crisis centre would ignore the voices of the women who have been raped?

I’d love to hear how anyone could actually support such a person ?

As I've said before, Mirdul Wadhwa's appointment is a political appointment. It's meant to send a message, along with the recent court decision on prisons, that trans rights take priority over womens rights and our safety.

All I can say is if Katy M is behind this, it's a massive own goal. Bringing plenty of sunlight to the issue.

To help their friend’s MN article?

Can’t wait for that to come out!!

I think one of the problems is that “ most” people think that trans women are like harmless Hailey Cropper in Coronation Street and not a strapping 6 foot + person with a beard , dress, make up and still fully intact penis and balls.

@RadandMad

All I can say is if Katy M is behind this, it's a massive own goal. Bringing plenty of sunlight to the issue.

Here comes the sun 🌞

@Rhannion

I think one of the problems is that “ most” people think that trans women are like harmless Hailey Cropper in Coronation Street and not a strapping 6 foot + person with a beard , dress, make up and still fully intact penis and balls.

Indeed they don't.

This is an interview with a Stonewall advisor and transwoman in Wales, who is open that they don't intend to have any surgery or hormonal treatment.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/there-no-legal-bars-woman-10297113

@RadandMad

All I can say is if Katy M is behind this, it's a massive own goal. Bringing plenty of sunlight to the issue.

Yep. Zero kudos to Monty Mate.