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Original poster

to NOT think women's rights are being attacked?

999 replies

MissPrimaryCrafts · 09/07/2021 15:53

Wanted to namechange in case this turns into a bloodbath but new users not being accepted so we'll see how it goes!

I realise this could be a bit provocative but I'm not looking for an argument, I just genuinely am finding it hard to understand the other side of this so would genuinely like a polite dicussion so I can understand better. Apologies in advance if it sparks natiness in replies

The issue being transphobia and womens rights...I've seen a lot of talk in threads recently about how 'anyone standing up for women is apparantly and transphobe and TERF' and that women are losing their rights and I just don't see how.

I assume the main issue is with allowing trans women into female only spaces, and people feeling like it's no longer really a 'female only' space as men could just say they're a woman and be allowed in?

I understand this as being a problem...but only to an extent. Firstly I feel like I wonder how much more access this would actually give men? Like honestly, if a man is going to go a commit a crime against a woman, is seeing a 'women only' sign on a changing room door really going to stop him? Is he really going to pretend to identify as a woman to enter the space, or is he just going to enter the space? Does allowing trans women really change things?

Also, if that IS your issue with allowing trans people into female only spaces, then your issue isn't with trans women, it's with men. If you're worried about men entering the space by 'pretending' to be trans, then the potential problems are because of men, not because of trans women. So surely there are better ways to address our issues with men committing crimes than to make sure trans women are excluded from certain spaces? Aren't there other ways we as a society can address the prevalence of crimes against women?

Of course - this is all if you 'believe' that being trans is a real thing, I'm aware many people don't think it's real and I think that's a separate issue. But if you think trans people do 'exist'/it is a real thing, but you want to bar them from female only spaces, I just wonder why? What do you think of the above?

Sorry this is an essay!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
chickenyhead · 09/07/2021 22:14

@OlympicProcrastinator

Please read TRANS by HELEN JOYCE op and anyone else who truly wants to learn why so many of us are saying NO.
Thanks, will look on the river site.
Lemonmelonsun · 09/07/2021 22:15

It terrifies me.

Can a third space be created? A third changing area for this new regime?

Lemonmelonsun · 09/07/2021 22:19

De rigour mortis

👌👌♥️.

DeRigueurMortis · 09/07/2021 22:21

@Lemonmelonsun

It terrifies me.

Can a third space be created? A third changing area for this new regime?

Why?

Seriously.

The issue is about men and male entitlement.

Men need to find space and acceptance for trans women.

Trans women need to accept it is not up to women to validate their dysphoria.

Women are not fodder for men's fetishisation.

Avocadowoman · 09/07/2021 22:21

I think women who want to use women’s spaces want to use them as there are no men present.

I think transwomen want to use women’s spaces because there are women there. We are part of the facility they wish to use. For validation, or for power.

I may of course be wrong. And not all transwomen would think like that.

A third space might work. I would certainly be happy to back any campaign for it. Not to start one - that would be for men and transwomen to do.

littlbrowndog · 09/07/2021 22:22

Me neither 💪💪💪💪

DrSbaitso · 09/07/2021 22:26

'The hardest thing about being a woman is deciding what to wear in the morning,' said Caitlin Jenner.

What?

Jux · 09/07/2021 22:26

I'm quite sure that Stonewall has the funds to set up at least one, prob more, Trans Refuges; except they don't want to.

DeRigueurMortis · 09/07/2021 22:30

@Jux

I'm quite sure that Stonewall has the funds to set up at least one, prob more, Trans Refuges; except they don't want to.

Yep - funny that....

DeRigueurMortis · 09/07/2021 22:40

@Lemonmelonsun - apologies.

I read my post back and it sounded aggressive to yourself.

That wasn't the intention.

I appreciate your input to the discussion.

Being honest I've been through these debates many times and learned that 3rd spaces are not the answer.

This is not because women are not in favour of this approach but because TW and allies are not.

They don't want compromise.

gluteustothemaximus · 09/07/2021 22:51

It's so scary how this is in schools. Our safeguarding lead is well and truly stonewalled but it's just surface scratching.

At the start, I said yep, crack on being whoever you want to be, lets all live in peace. Delving in deeper, something far more sinister is going on, and any debate or discussion is met with 'transphobia'.

Sex is a protected characteristic, and so is gender. But one is stomping on the other.

We have 5 non binary females at school now, and 2 transboys renamed and pronouns changed. Their view of what this means is very simplistic. Such as, not wearing pink, or having short hair.

I can't get my head around how regressive and stereotypical this is, and how seemingly very intelligent people (far more than me!) cannot see this.

Why are we changing the rules for gender? If gender is a social construct (which I accept) then base things on biological sex. Separate based on sex, not how you feel.

How have we got here? When I have to share a space with someone who 'feels' like a woman. When all that entails for them is pink lipstick and long hair/short skirts/high heels.

Is that what women are?

gluteustothemaximus · 09/07/2021 22:53

And as for rape crisis CEO being a transwomen, my god, that pisses on every single woman who has ever been raped or sexually assaulted.

Lemonmelonsun · 09/07/2021 22:55

Glue agree.. Is that all women are.

A distillation of fake eye lashes, nails and lipstick.

DeRigueurMortis · 09/07/2021 23:04

Is that what women are?

No.

See my previous post.

I could add so many experiences to that.

No trans woman has undergone the trauma for example of sitting on a toilet for hours and flushing away a much wanted pregnancy.

Or worse at a later stage catching a tiny foetus in bloodied hands.

Men do not have the right to claim
a female life.

TalkingOutYerArse · 09/07/2021 23:04

[quote Waitwhat23]@littletopknot because spaces such as you describe, often called third spaces, are considered 'othering' and transphobic. Somehow.[/quote]
Plus, it's not our problem to solve.

Penistoe · 09/07/2021 23:05

This pose is the equivalent of farting into a lift full of people as you get off, leaving the others to argue about who did it.

DeRigueurMortis · 09/07/2021 23:08

@Penistoe

This pose is the equivalent of farting into a lift full of people as you get off, leaving the others to argue about who did it.

Ok - so make your point then rather than farting and leaving...,

Helleofabore · 09/07/2021 23:11

I am not surprised by the poll, currently 85% to 15%.

However, if you are part of the 85%, be fully prepared to be told you are the extremist minority. That no one agrees with you and that your voice should not be heard outside the new board that contains the voices out of hearing range of the supposed majority.

Unfortunately, there are many in the 15 % who believe that they are in the majority, through either existing ironically in their own echo chambers or wishful thinking.

TalkingOutYerArse · 09/07/2021 23:11

@Jux

I'm quite sure that Stonewall has the funds to set up at least one, prob more, Trans Refuges; except they don't want to.
Totally
TalkingOutYerArse · 09/07/2021 23:14

@gluteustothemaximus

And as for rape crisis CEO being a transwomen, my god, that pisses on every single woman who has ever been raped or sexually assaulted.
Disgusting isnt it.
littlebilliie · 09/07/2021 23:15

@gluteustothemaximus

It's so scary how this is in schools. Our safeguarding lead is well and truly stonewalled but it's just surface scratching.

At the start, I said yep, crack on being whoever you want to be, lets all live in peace. Delving in deeper, something far more sinister is going on, and any debate or discussion is met with 'transphobia'.

Sex is a protected characteristic, and so is gender. But one is stomping on the other.

We have 5 non binary females at school now, and 2 transboys renamed and pronouns changed. Their view of what this means is very simplistic. Such as, not wearing pink, or having short hair.

I can't get my head around how regressive and stereotypical this is, and how seemingly very intelligent people (far more than me!) cannot see this.

Why are we changing the rules for gender? If gender is a social construct (which I accept) then base things on biological sex. Separate based on sex, not how you feel.

How have we got here? When I have to share a space with someone who 'feels' like a woman. When all that entails for them is pink lipstick and long hair/short skirts/high heels.

Is that what women are?

Agree it is regressive and it's leading women back to where they were 100 years ago without rights or voice.
DrSbaitso · 09/07/2021 23:16

A woman is an adult human of the reproductive sex class that is capable of producing ova.

OlympicProcrastinator · 09/07/2021 23:17

“I note we used the same phase smile

#ImNotHavingIt 🤣“

When we get TWAW shoved down our throats, we have a new go to phrase 💪💪

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 09/07/2021 23:18

’The hardest thing about being a woman is deciding what to wear in the morning,' said Caitlin Jenner.

I remember a MtF vicar in the UK, who said the same thing about their first meeting with the church congregation after transitioning. The sheer contemptuous shallowness of it.

How does anyone fail to see how regressive this is? How the endless publicity given to transwomen and their 1950s attitudes is teaching children to see women as a brainless parody?

cricketmum84 · 09/07/2021 23:24

@gluteustothemaximus

And as for rape crisis CEO being a transwomen, my god, that pisses on every single woman who has ever been raped or sexually assaulted.
Can you explain why please?