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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to NOT think women's rights are being attacked?

999 replies

MissPrimaryCrafts · 09/07/2021 15:53

Wanted to namechange in case this turns into a bloodbath but new users not being accepted so we'll see how it goes!

I realise this could be a bit provocative but I'm not looking for an argument, I just genuinely am finding it hard to understand the other side of this so would genuinely like a polite dicussion so I can understand better. Apologies in advance if it sparks natiness in replies

The issue being transphobia and womens rights...I've seen a lot of talk in threads recently about how 'anyone standing up for women is apparantly and transphobe and TERF' and that women are losing their rights and I just don't see how.

I assume the main issue is with allowing trans women into female only spaces, and people feeling like it's no longer really a 'female only' space as men could just say they're a woman and be allowed in?

I understand this as being a problem...but only to an extent. Firstly I feel like I wonder how much more access this would actually give men? Like honestly, if a man is going to go a commit a crime against a woman, is seeing a 'women only' sign on a changing room door really going to stop him? Is he really going to pretend to identify as a woman to enter the space, or is he just going to enter the space? Does allowing trans women really change things?

Also, if that IS your issue with allowing trans people into female only spaces, then your issue isn't with trans women, it's with men. If you're worried about men entering the space by 'pretending' to be trans, then the potential problems are because of men, not because of trans women. So surely there are better ways to address our issues with men committing crimes than to make sure trans women are excluded from certain spaces? Aren't there other ways we as a society can address the prevalence of crimes against women?

Of course - this is all if you 'believe' that being trans is a real thing, I'm aware many people don't think it's real and I think that's a separate issue. But if you think trans people do 'exist'/it is a real thing, but you want to bar them from female only spaces, I just wonder why? What do you think of the above?

Sorry this is an essay!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ghostyslovesheets · 09/07/2021 17:55

Only transphobes think women are being attacked - seriously I can't work out if that's scary or hillarious

claralara42 · 09/07/2021 17:55

@RaindropsOnRosie

It's only transphobes who believe women are being attacked. The same people who use the sex/gender excuse to hide their transphobia. Bunch of idiots who should stay in their own lanes and ever so kindly fuck off.
I'll stay in my own womens lane if you could keep men out of it. Thanks so much.
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/07/2021 17:56

Question for the OP.

If a woman is raped and she is assigned a transwoman as her medical examiner, should she have the right to request a female examiner, without risking being prosecuted for a hate crime?

DocDog · 09/07/2021 17:56

@chickenyhead

Or you agree the the protected right of biological women is less relevant than that of biological males.

Exactly

Tinysalmonswimminginastream · 09/07/2021 17:56

@RaindropsOnRosie

It's only transphobes who believe women are being attacked. The same people who use the sex/gender excuse to hide their transphobia. Bunch of idiots who should stay in their own lanes and ever so kindly fuck off.
What a reasoned and articulate argument Hmm
ArabellaScott · 09/07/2021 17:56

ooh, is there a woman's lane again? Brilliant, I was missing it. Ta, Raindrops, great we've cleared up the misunderstanding!

anon12345678901 · 09/07/2021 17:57

@RaindropsOnRosie

It's only transphobes who believe women are being attacked. The same people who use the sex/gender excuse to hide their transphobia. Bunch of idiots who should stay in their own lanes and ever so kindly fuck off.
My Lane is for women, if men could kindly stick to their line that would be wonderful.
SlipperyDippery · 09/07/2021 17:58

@RaindropsOnRosie

It's only transphobes who believe women are being attacked. The same people who use the sex/gender excuse to hide their transphobia. Bunch of idiots who should stay in their own lanes and ever so kindly fuck off.
Your arguments would not stand up to scrutiny, hence why you resort to abuse. Your arguments wouldn’t last 30 seconds if you weren’t able to shout “transphobia” to shout down anyone who believes sex plays a part in oppression and shouldn’t be disregarded.

It’s a shame people like you don’t believe in equality.

Feelingoktoday · 09/07/2021 17:58

I’m in the women’s lane then.

PurpleDaisies · 09/07/2021 17:58

@ArabellaScott

ooh, is there a woman's lane again? Brilliant, I was missing it. Ta, Raindrops, great we've cleared up the misunderstanding!
You need to look for the pink, sparkly road markings and mascara on the cats’ eyes.
ArabellaScott · 09/07/2021 17:59

Also, if that IS your issue with allowing trans people into female only spaces, then your issue isn't with trans women, it's with men. If you're worried about men entering the space by 'pretending' to be trans, then the potential problems are because of men, not because of trans women. So surely there are better ways to address our issues with men committing crimes than to make sure trans women are excluded from certain spaces? Aren't there other ways we as a society can address the prevalence of crimes against women?

OP -

Do you think all spaces should be mixed sex? Prisons, sports, toilets, hospital wards, changing rooms, naked spas, etc?

NotMyCat · 09/07/2021 17:59

See if I say I'm a man and go in the men's toilets, I can see the men would be "get away with you" and laugh and tell me to use the women's toilets
If a man comes in the women's toilets and says he's a woman, how many women are going to say "actually you're not, get out"
I wouldn't, because I would be worried about their reaction and it would probably end up in the paper as me being transphobic

TalkingOutYerArse · 09/07/2021 17:59

@RaindropsOnRosie

It's only transphobes who believe women are being attacked. The same people who use the sex/gender excuse to hide their transphobia. Bunch of idiots who should stay in their own lanes and ever so kindly fuck off.
Fab. We can keep our lane and the TIMs can keep theirs too.
WrongWayApricot · 09/07/2021 18:00

@Blossomtoes so then the other posts started in AIBU should also stay in AIBU.

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/07/2021 18:00

For those who do think OP is being unreasonable, there are some petitions over on the petitions board you might want to support

e.g.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/4289181-please-sign-petition-to-protect-women-s-sport

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/4292095-Require-sex-of-violent-sexual-offenders-be-recorded

dyslek · 09/07/2021 18:01

Ok, imagine being locked in a prison cell with a rapist.

Thats it really, just that.

SilenceOfTheNaans · 09/07/2021 18:02

I meant, to clarify, that at the moment there are no specific safe places for transwomen either (unless we are of course happy to tolerate violence against them)

Why is the campaign for transwomen to be allowed to use female space instead of a safe third space?

Jux · 09/07/2021 18:02

Would you like your daughter to be looked after on brownie camp by an 18 year old male born person who claims to be female and who is sleeping in the same room as them?

But what is the issue here? Do you think this man is pretending to be trans so he can get access to young girls? Do you think the nature of being a trans perseon makes someone a pervert who shouldn't be around children? Would love to know more about your issue with it

Do you think this man is pretending to be trans? Not necessarily, but the problem is that how can I tell? How can I tell that my dd is safe with this person who is obvs a man but says she's a woman? And what effect does contradicting the evidence of her eyes have on dd's boundaries? When is she allowed to say she is uncomfortable with having a strange man sleeping in her room? When, if not at GG?

Please think about that, it's very very serious. If youmess with children's brain development like that, blur their boundaries, make them feel uncomfortable like that, then it's just grooming. Why are you OK with children being groomed?

DrSbaitso · 09/07/2021 18:03

I have so much sympathy for trans people. They don't fit in with the gender stereotypes of this world.

Nor do several billion other people.

dyslek · 09/07/2021 18:03

Why is this thread allowed to stay in AIBU but others arnt? just curious.

Ooodlesofboodles · 09/07/2021 18:04

I will only concede to spacegoats in female spaces.
No men whatever they identify as (including spacegoats)

CiaoForNiao · 09/07/2021 18:05

@RaindropsOnRosie

It's only transphobes who believe women are being attacked. The same people who use the sex/gender excuse to hide their transphobia. Bunch of idiots who should stay in their own lanes and ever so kindly fuck off.
I must have imagined my abuser telling me he would volunteer as a guide leader if he was allowed then. Maybe I imagined the abuse too.

Oh no... I know. I should just get over it like I've been told on here before.

I'll happily stay in the womens lane. Men can stay the fuck in theirs too.

TalkingOutYerArse · 09/07/2021 18:06

@SilenceOfTheNaans

I meant, to clarify, that at the moment there are no specific safe places for transwomen either (unless we are of course happy to tolerate violence against them)

Why is the campaign for transwomen to be allowed to use female space instead of a safe third space?

Why are they not opening their own refuges like women did?
Spacegoats · 09/07/2021 18:07

@Ooodlesofboodles

Spacegoats are the best thing about this thread.

Oh hi.

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 09/07/2021 18:08

This reminds me of when was it Madigan or Harrop who suggested Terf spaces Grin
Bring it on. They'd be full of women

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