AIBU OH never *alone* with kids

[apmlee]

We have a toddler and a 6 month baby. My toddler has serious behaviour issues atm, he is very very emotional and tantrums a lot and baby doesn’t like to put down - so it’s a challenge. I’m on maternity leave and OH leaves for work at 7am and comes back 5pm mom-fri, then at the weekend usually 1 day at least he either arranges more work or he has plans. So I have both the kids by myself 6/7 days a week 7am-5 and I don’t drive. I usually try to do something with the both of them most days, we will go to the park, out for walks, to toddler groups and swimming, the farm etc but most of the time these don’t go smoothly and I spend it putting toddler on a makeshift timeout or baby crying and people looking at me.

I’m not trashing my OH for working or having plans, grateful for him working and totally agree he needs time out. However I also need a break and I rarely get one. I shower with both the kids in the bathroom with me, get dressed with them with me, go to the toilet holding the baby and cook/clean with baby in the carrier and watching the toddler. My OH wouldn’t dream of having a shower with them both in there with him and he doesn’t do any of the things above and everything else he needs to do he does with the luxury of time and without the kids. In the six months since we’ve had the little one he has had both the kids on his own for more than an hour only 3 times and all of those times he has gone to his parents where I know his mum will watch the kids, make him a tea and he’ll sit on his phone. I suppose what I want is for him to get some perspective - to start having them properly on his own, where he takes them out by himself or has them for a day so that he can understand what it is like for me because at the moment I feel like I don’t get a moment to myself and he doesn’t understand that maybe i don’t want to feel like it’s a luxury to have a shower alone. I go back to work full time in six months (I will be working very long hours) and he will then be quitting work to have the kids part time, I feel like he is going to be totally mentally unprepared and that a lot of the ‘load’ is going to remain with me, even though I’ll be working 8am-9/10pm some days and 8am-6pm on a good day. AIBU for wanting him to have them properly with no help and sometimes have them when he’s doing stuff to gain some perspective and so it’s not such a shock to the system when I go back to work?

Is the baby breastfed? If so you need to book a weekend away. Ok, maybe he'll take them to his folks but at least you'll have a full 36 hours of respite.

If the baby is bf I realise you may need to wait a little longer for that. Is there anyone else who can help on the days he's at work? Could his parents or yours pop over to help out on those days? Do you have any siblings who could give you half a day off?

When you say your plans get double booked - don't allow that to happen. Book your thing in, tell him about it and get him to agree, write it into whatever joint calendars and if something comes up for him he has to either take the children or arrange childcare for them (if that's his parents then so be it, just make sure you get your break - eventually his parents will start asking why they need to help out ir it's just an evening or whatever and he'll be shamed into it)

He’s not acting like part of the team though is he @whatk8ydid? He’s coasting along, doing his own thing, not parenting his children, planning to work less so op can not only pay for his lifestyle but also do the majority of the housework

I’m screeching ltb as usual on a daily basis because there’s so many examples of shit men who don’t take responsibility on mumsnet

@whatk8ydid - Are you auditoning for a handmaiden role?

You and your partner are a team - they're really not. Where do you see any effort that he puts in?

when life is so so busy and exhausting right now - right because she's doing 100% of the parenting

His behaviour is clearly part of the problem - it's ALL the problem

If you decide what he needs to do or change, you'll likely either end up furious he hasn't done it or resentful that he's only done it because he's been told to so it doesn't feel genuine - she has asked him to step up, he hasn't. He told her not to wash her hair instead of looking after his dc for 15 mins. That's setting the bar pretty low, no? How come OP knows what has to be done and just does it? He has eyes and a brain, surely? The he can see what needs to be done. He's just choosing not to do it, because he's a lazy arse.

Stop making excuses for behaviour that is frankly inexcusable.

@whatk8ydid - LTB cocklodger screeches - nice bit of misogyny there. Well done. So much for the sisterhood.

That's awful unless he is trying to break you mentally he needs to jump in.

So you earn more, are taking care of the kids full time with no help, he swans off out every weekend and then has the audacity to tell you what you can and can’t afford, even though driving lessons will make your life immeasurably easier? Let me tell you there is no rhyme, reason or excuse that could possibly justify this behaviour.

Honestly I would throw him out. At least then you’d get eow to you yourself. He is a lazy man child that brings nothing to the table and you can do so much better.

I’m sorry but you are delusional. He WILL NOT look after HIS children - he will take them to his mothers and you will have to put up with that.
Whatever he wants trumps what YOU want.
He wants to pack in his job - he’s a very very lazy man.
How the f is he going to look after them when he can’t have them for 10 mins whilst your in the shower??????
When someone shows you who they are - believe them!!!
This is him.
Why does what he want thumps what you want.
He’s a free loader.
I’d be very careful - he’s no ambition by the sounds of it and wants to live off you.
He will have the children for 3 days a week?
He will have 4 days to himself.
He will carry on doing what he is doing.
A straight forward conversation needs to be had - he needs to be left alone with the children so he can prepare for what’s to come.
He needs to stay in at the weekend a watch what you do and participate in FAMILY life. You need to feel confident in his abilities.
You will not feel settled at work.
Could you afford a live in nanny or au pair?
You need to have a voice as at the moment he’s calling the shots and you are letting him for some reason.
Keep posting. 💐

@WizardOfAus

This is a post from another parenting site, but it relates to your current position.

(This post is specifically geared at women in heterosexual relationships.) Ok ladies, we need to talk.

Every few weeks there's a post that makes the admin team spend a day debating if we should say something or not. These posts are always on the same theme; husbands who are not pulling their weight.

Well, after just reading a post from this week were a whopping 4 HUNDRED of you commented in solidarity with the OP I've decided today is the day we say something.

Household chore inequity and child care inequality is a form of domestic abuse. It forces women to work themselves into exhaustion and illness, whilst men buy their free time with female exhaustion.

No one wants to see themselves as being in an abusive relationship. It means acknowledging that someone you love, someone you married or committed to, someone you chose to have children with is taking advantage of you and that hurts on so many levels.

it's heartbreaking to acknowledge, but acknowledge it we must.

If your husband or partner is capable of working at their job without being micromanaged and given extremely explicit instructions, then they are capable of contributing fairly at home without being given extremely explicit instructions and micromanaged. If they act like they are incapable they are gaslighting you.

If they were capable of living independently without living in a rat-infested pigsty without any clean clothes and living off pizza, then they are capable of ensuring children are fed and clothed, groceries are done, and household chores are shared equally. If they act like they are incapable they are gaslighting you.

If they claim they love you and yet your health comes secondary to their leisure, they're gaslighting you.

If they claim they can't possibly function and it would be unsafe for them to work with broken sleep, but it's totally fine for you to have to work, drive and do all the household chores and childcare on broken sleep, they're taking advantage of you.

If they say they are going to get up in the night and help but when the time comes the pretend to be asleep/complain, they're gaslighting you.

If they don't even actually try to settle the baby and had bub back almost immediately with "they just want you:", they're gaslighting you.

If your health, sanity, sleep, work, or self-esteem are suffering because you are the one doing everything, whilst they leverage your exhaustion into their free time, they're abusing you.
Like other forms of abuse, it will not get better on its own. It's not an accident.

So please ladies. Please stop laughing it off as "just men"

It's not just men. It's purposeful.

It might not be consciously purposeful, but it is still purposeful. They know they can get away with it.

one of you being on antidepressants because your husband won't help raise the children he fathered is one too many. 400+ of you being exhausted to the brink of PND and breakdowns is heartbreaking for us to watch.

You can't fix this by night weaning. Or sleep training. Or bedsharing, or chore charts, or even kicking hubby into the spare room. There are only two things that will fix this - therapy, or leaving.

I am sorry.

I know this message has appeared twice on here now but I feel this needs to keep being reposted!

This is insane. He won't look after both kids now, but in a few months he'll have both for multiple days a week. What will change between then and now? Can't he take a few days off so you get a rest and he sees what it's like? Then arrange childcare even if its expensive, if he doesn't want to be a SAHD.

It should be non-negotiable that he has to have both on his own sometimes to give you a break. At least a morning a week.

@apmlee

Ok so going to push the issue of driving lessons because that would help loads. And on the baby subject, honestly there have been a few incidents that have scared me when I’ve left baby for a moment - for example my toddler got his drink and tried to feed her it whilst she was lying down in her cot - she basically got waterboarded. I had only gone for a moment. So I tend to always have one with me so they’re not left alone together, and baby cries whenever put down.

And on the OH, we are not married but we have been together a long time and our relationship pre kids was great. He also does do house admin like grocery shopping but for example I have asked him to take the kids with him on occasion so I can have a break and he’s said no because it’s too difficult. He will have the kids separately absolutely fine, so for a break I will go out with just the baby.

We discussed nursery and went to visit one. I was pro nursery but OH isn’t as he thinks our littlest will be too small for nursery. He is the one that wants to quit and have the kids, I just think he’s going to be totally unprepared because he’s not pushing himself out of his comfort zone and doing it now.

Don't marry him. You will end up leaving at some point when you crack and you will end up supporting him. If he is SAHD, he may well end up with full custody and keeping the house.

@Whydidimarryhim

I’m sorry but you are delusional. He WILL NOT look after HIS children - he will take them to his mothers and you will have to put up with that. Whatever he wants trumps what YOU want. He wants to pack in his job - he’s a very very lazy man. How the f is he going to look after them when he can’t have them for 10 mins whilst your in the shower?????? When someone shows you who they are - believe them!!! This is him. Why does what he want thumps what you want. He’s a free loader. I’d be very careful - he’s no ambition by the sounds of it and wants to live off you. He will have the children for 3 days a week? He will have 4 days to himself. He will carry on doing what he is doing. A straight forward conversation needs to be had - he needs to be left alone with the children so he can prepare for what’s to come. He needs to stay in at the weekend a watch what you do and participate in FAMILY life. You need to feel confident in his abilities. You will not feel settled at work. Could you afford a live in nanny or au pair? You need to have a voice as at the moment he’s calling the shots and you are letting him for some reason. Keep posting. 💐

Every single word of this.

You think your MIL will be only taking care of her 2 days. HAHAHA! He will be at hers every single day.

On his phone.

And you will have zero choice in the matter because "what the fuck is your problem with my Mum??!"

@whatk8ydid

Gosh, I know it's mumsnet but I'm astonished by the number of LTB cocklodger screeches that have come out this morning.

You and your partner are a team, it sounds like you could do with reconnecting - which is so hard when life is so so busy and exhausting right now. His behaviour is clearly part of the problem, so let him help come up with solutions. If you alone decide what he needs to do or change, you'll likely either end up furious he hasn't done it or resentful that he's only done it because he's been told to so it doesn't feel genuine. And he's likely to feel resentful either way - as I'm sure you would be if he suddenly came home and told you about his expectations for the way you should behave. Now is a brilliant opportunity to set the foundations for how you'll both deal with conflict within your relationship for hopefully the next few decades.

In what way are the op and her husband a team?? Teams pull together. His behaviour is the problem. He is a problem. It's okay to recognize when someone just isn't good enough, and to say it out loud. It is okay for women to tell other women what a good relationship looks like, because so so many women settle for the absolute minimum and then try to adjust their expectations downwards until finally they're at a point where they just think, it's better than nothing. It isn't good enough.

Would you put up with a man like the one described in this thread? I would not. I am 41, I have been around the block, I'm not willing to settle for shit like this, and I feel for anyone who would.

You're a lawyer. You're an intelligent, resourceful woman. I'm struggling to understand why you would put up with such a man baby. Have an argument. Have many arguments, but do what it takes to make him understand that he can't go through life freeloading on your time and effort, and he owes more to his children.

I think him not working will turn out to be a massive mistake. We all know he’s just going to get his mum doing all the childcare so he still won’t have to look after his kids and I’m sure you’ll resent him more.
Also as others have pointed out if you split he could use the fact his is a SAHD to his advantage to gain more custody.

I think it would be best if he carries on working and you use his mum for childcare 2 days a week and you (both) pay for a nursery/childminder for the other 3 days.

As for the shower thing, when he’s with the kids just say your going for a shower. Ignore any excuses he comes up with.
Also where does he go at weekends? Is it a hobby or out with his mates? You should get to go out at the weekend too so try and arrange something.

In reply to the several people that have @'d me - not everything needs to be a battle cry. My point is purely that there is a middle ground between passive aggressive allowance of unsupportive behaviour, and leaving him straight off the bat.

OP clearly chose to have children and build a life with this man so he can't have always been a complete muppet, and hopefully there is hope still yet. If things still don't change, then that's another post really isn't it.

She knows the behaviour from him isn't right or supportive or acceptable, nothing I've said has countered that in any way. I don't think it's unreasonable to offer up some strategies to help OP make some lasting changes in the relationship and some coping mechanisms for the interim. Assuming she does want to stay and try and change things (which I read to be the tone of the initial post), then I think that is women supporting women.

In answer to someone, no - I wouldn't tolerate such behaviour from my partner, but that's not to say it's always been easy to find the balance we have and communicate effectively to get us there. I don't think it's fair as a peer group to give the impression that relationships are either perfect or broken. Realistically, we all know there is a huge middle ground.

This sounds like strategic uselessness on his part. If he quits his job he’ll be round to his mums every day with the kids, while he fannies about, and you work hard to support them all.

Seriously think where this is leading and protect yourself. You do not want to be stuck financially supporting this lazy, selfish man.

He's totally taking the piss out of you, he won't get any better, he'll quit work and his mum will end up having the kids every day. What a mess.

He needs to learn, if you had to stay in hospital or away for any reason, he'd have to know.
Avoiding the agro of his toddlers behaviour issues isn't going to help longterm he needs to involve himself.
If you need a break for a few weeks until he decides if he is going to step up or out, it can't continue as it stands.

Have I read it correctly that in a few months time he is supposed to be a SAHD but he isn’t capable of spending any sort of time with his children.

I think a serious conversation is in order to point out that unless he starts stepping up with caring for his children on his own even just whilst you go and wash your hair then this isn’t a viable plan

I would be looking at taking your mother up on her offer of few days per week childcare and a few days per week nursery and both of you working. On the nursery days you are both going to have to adjust your work hours so one does drop off and one does pick up or hire in some early morning childcare or pay for limited hours childcare each day and have your mother doing the drop offs and pick ups. Mine used to go to a nursery that did 9.30- 12.30pm you could extend the time till 2pm and they got lunch. Or you could extend the time to 4pm if you wanted a longer day.
Or even get a live in au pair

I know you think your mother doesn’t discipline your dc and doesn’t have boundaries but I wouldn’t let that be a stumbling block.

Ultimately if he thinks he is going to sit on his phone all day whilst his parents look after his children, I presume without pay as he is the one who is supposed to be looking after them instead of working. They are going to get very fed up very quickly.

Talking hasn't worked and it won't work. He is hardwired to believe that you are the default parent and will do ANYTHING and say ANYTHING to retain the status quo.

From experience, someone this entrenched in their ways needs quite an extreme shock to wake them up. 'Asking' to shower is just reinforcing the idea that he is 'doing you a favour' by minding his own kids. This has to stop.

In your shoes, starting today. I would tell him that you have been trying to approach this gently with him but he is not getting it and that you are on your knees and no longer prepared to continue like this. Tell him that his behaviour is the most extreme example of non-parenting that some mners have every come across and that if he doesn't step up, he can step out.

Have a calendar ready with any 'free time' already shared out between you. A lie in for each of you on alternative weekend days. And that lie in trumps everything for BOTH OF YOU and is not to be disturbed because of 'perceived issues' that can wait. If the baby is sick, he can clean up etc

You also get a minimum of one hour a day to shower/wash hair/do fuck all.

You get a night off to stay in/go out once a month.

Most importantly, ask him why he doesn't want to give you a break? Seriously get him to explain to you how he can watch his partner struggling every day and not want to step up and support her. Unless he admits to being terrified of parenting both (possible but tough shit, he has to learn just like you have) then he is an asshole.

If you allow him to stay home with those children and you want to split up he can go for primary parent.

Do you not understand basic law OP?

You are about to make a life changing mistake that could cost you your children.

He is miles ahead of you.

Miles ahead of you.

You need to cop yourself on and stop being so passive.

Unless of course you aren't pushed about keeping your children and fancy this waster threatening you down the line with taking them because he gave up his job🙄.

Your children need one decent parent.

Stop allowing him to make an absolute idiot out of you.

Your children and you deserve better.

@billy1966 great advice.

I doubt he'd go for being primary parent, he has no interest in them.

I did not expect this post to get so many comments so I really appreciate everyone’s input. I have thought about leaving if I am honest. However I don’t think I would, yet. He has an older son from a previous relationship and with him he’s such a good dad. So I’m pretty confident that when the kids grow up he will do a lot more with them. He has repeatedly said he finds the baby / toddler stage very hard. I now think I know why his previous partner left him when their child was very young. He’s not a bad person and I also know from how he dealt with his previous split that he wouldn’t take the kids or demand maintenance. So I don’t have concerns there. The post was really to get an anonymous sounding board on whether I have a good reason to really have a much needed go at him, which I think I definitely do and I will do so. Baby is bf but takes a bottle of pumped milk so I can leave her. I was thinking about staying over with friends somewhere on a girls weekend so I think I’ll do this and leave him with the kids but also just have a word with his mum privately about backing off a bit so that he is doing at least some of it solo.

I definitely have enabled this behaviour. For personal reasons I associate house dirt (I.e dirty kitchen floor, counters) with neglect so it is very triggering when the house is unclean - which happens if I leave it with the expectation that he will do it. He will eventually but it takes a long time and a lot of nagging.

I have also said to him that his mum is not to have them more than 2 days a week, and if she does end up then I will have the awkward conversation with her about the fact that I don’t want her having them because her easy life approach for her causes behaviour issues in the long term. His mum is lovely so I really don’t want that conversation and neither does he.

I don't mean this in a rude way at all, but just don't put up with it.

Tell him you are going for a shower on your own because you are sick to death of having the children there with you. Lock the bathroom door and tough, he will have to do it. Book days out with your friends and if he double books, tough shit. You made the plans first. Just go.

I think you need to be a lot tougher with him. If it ends in an argument then so be it. He deserves for you to have a go at him for not helping. I'm a very passive person but I would be going ape shit at my partner for this.

I would actually leave a relationship for this. I have so many friends who have relationships like this and I just don't get it. Why on earth would someone stay with a man like that? Blows my mind