To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

Sorry OP but you were in the wrong on both counts. It’s up to you to know how to read road marking and signs and know which lane you should be in and which you shouldn’t. Also you never enter a box junction unless the space at the other end is clear of the junction for you to totally exit it. It’s not ok to just have your tail end on the box junction. Otherwise people would just take another inch, and another and where do you draw the line? Well they’ve already drawn the line- it’s the end of the box junction.

@MotionActivatedDog do you think it's fair for someone to be charged £130 every time they make a small error? I think that I may need to sell my car. I can't really afford to pay this every month. I have had a car since December and I haven't had any issues until being slammed with these two fines in one go.

Unfortunately you were in the wrong both times there. Its frustrating, but it is what it is, sadly.

If your car was fully in the bus lane at any point, then you get a fine. And the rules are you don't enter a box junction unless there is a clear space at the other side.

It's like saying you were only going 35 in a 30, so you shouldn't get a fine. There has to be a line somewhere.

do you think it's fair for someone to be charged £130 every time they make a small error?

They’re steep charges but if those are the fines for those offences then yes, you will be charged them. Is your issue the cost of the fines or the fact you got them?

I can't really afford to pay this every month.

Why would it be every month?

I'm afraid those rules aren't guidance, they are hard and fast.
Do not enter a box junction unless you can get clear out of it, do not stop on it. That is what they are for.
Ditto bus lanes. You can't drive through a bus lane to get to a clear empty lane- I know because I got a fine.

We all make mistakes, some of them are expensive, I'm afraid.

I think that I may need to sell my car. I can't really afford to pay this every month

Don't make these errors every month then. Whilst I do think that the fines are a bit steep at £130 each, you were in the wrong on both occasions.

[quote libertybonds]@MotionActivatedDog do you think it's fair for someone to be charged £130 every time they make a small error? I think that I may need to sell my car. I can't really afford to pay this every month. I have had a car since December and I haven't had any issues until being slammed with these two fines in one go.[/quote]
You shouldn’t have to pay this every month, go and read over the Highway Code again and you’ll be fine.
One of the main themes of the Highway Code is not to blindly follow another vehicle. The rule of a box junction is you don’t enter it if your exit isn’t clear. Just pay more attention to what you’re doing

And you need to rethink your thought process, they weren’t errors, they were offences, and ignorance of a law isn’t taken as a defence

It’s two expensive mistakes but ones that will make you far more careful and observant in future.

I’m curious to know what you think the penalty should be if not a financial one?

1. If you were in a bus lane you were in the wrong. Sorry. Whether there was a bus around is irrelevant.
2. You shouldn't ever be stationary with even part of your vehicle in a box junction. You shouldn't enter it until your exit is clear.

Why would you be paying this every month? Stay out of box junctions and bus lanes. That's the point of the fines.

You won't get fined again if you obey the rules of the road. There is a place reserved in hell for people who ignore box junction - they're not just there to make the road look pretty.

The penalties are steep for a reason- to make sure people don’t repeat the offence. If it wasn’t a painful lesson people wouldn’t be bothered about doing it again.

Sounds like you need to plan ahead more when driving rather than just reacting at the last minute

Yeh, you need to read the Highway Code

On the bus lane charge, the most common defence is that the signage and markings are not clear or/and do not meet legal standards.

Yes yabu. Bus lanes are for their exclusive use unless outside any tine restrictions and a box junction has to be left clear and you only move across once there is space beyond it. Why every month, just stick to the Highway Code!

You need to stop doing stuff like this OP! It shouldn't be every month. Surely it's less than £130 if you pay it earlier?

£130 is too high but these fines are a money-making exercise so they charge what they think they can get away with.

Ultimately you broke the rules so have to pay. Not knowing the roads or only just breaking the rules isn't an excuse. If you drive you need to know the rules, read the road and be able to obey them.

Otherwise there'd be nothing to stop me claiming I only went through the red light because an ambulance was trying to get past and people were honking at me to move. It's irrelevant how little or how much you break the rules, it's irrelevant why you break the rules, it's a fine and/or points regardless.

YABU

You need to concentrate when you're driving OP

Hang on, what do you mean you can't afford it every month?!

Why would you pay 260 quid in fines every month? I don't understand?

The responsibility is on you to pay attention to the road markings etc when you're driving - it's dangerous not to. What if it was a zebra crossing you didn't notice? Or a give way / stop line?

Everyone makes mistakes, don't get me wrong, but the point is to learn from them, not just carry on regardless and do the same again, surely? You won't make these mistakes again on that road, so you won't be fined again.

I'm a nervous driver, especially in cities with multiple lanes and one way systems etc. (I live very rurally) So if I'm going somewhere unfamiliar and I'm worried then when I get directions I also look on google street view to see which exit on the roundabout / lane I need to be in.

Steep penalties but if you pay them within 14 days they are usually discounted (sometimes by 50%)

But I echo everyone else, pay more attention and don't make these mistakes again - certainly try to avoid doing it monthly

YANBU to be annoyed. These are cash cows for councils because people make minor errors every day. However, you did make those errors so sadly have to pay.

Sorry OP but you are totally in the wrong. London boroughs are notorious for their penalty charges and it is either black of white - no grey areas of “oh I only clipped the bus lane” or “my tail end was only just in the box”.

Are you planning to repeat these offences every month?

Why on earth would you do that?