To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

Yeah, I was just going to say, don't bother with Mumsnet, get straight onto the Money Saving Expert forums to see if there is any room for appeal.

Box junction is clear cut, you should never stop in one

Wrong - you can enter a box junction if you are waiting to turn right.

www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-junctions.html

It is gutting, especially when it’s a lot of money that you can’t really spare. Although, as other posters have said, you can often get a 50% reduction if you pay within 14 days. I got a penalty charge notice for parking a few months back.. I’d paid, but entered my license plate number wrong. I did appeal, but - annoying as it was - it was my error, and I still had to pay, albeit a reduced amount. So I do have sympathy for you.

@HilaryBriss

I think that I may need to sell my car. I can't really afford to pay this every month

Don't make these errors every month then. Whilst I do think that the fines are a bit steep at £130 each, you were in the wrong on both occasions.

Surely only £130 if you don't pay within a certain time period?

It is annoying and driving in London can feel a bit like It's A Knockout with all the bus lanes, hatching, new bike lanes popping up without so much as a by-your-leave and other drivers being both selfish and a bit crap sometimes. However making a mistake that ends in a fine is the risk you take when you get in the car isn't it. I think you were unlucky to have done it in two places with cameras but the more you drive the less you will do it.

Ending up in a box junction is usually caused by impatience (sometimes the person behind you's because they beep or whatever but you have to ignore that). You just have to suck it up and pay up.

I got caught doing 23 in a 20 zone recently and had to do a speed awareness course so I know it's easily done but you have to try not to do it innit.

DS entered a bus lane by mistake in an area he was unfamiliar with, but the charge was £60 if paid within 14 days. There was a photo. He was in the bus lane. He paid the charge.

@VerticalHorizon

That link doesn't work so I'm not sure but wouldn't you be exiting the roundabout into the left hand lane if you were doing it correctly anyway?

The b'stards get us all the end!

It's common in the north to park a little on the kerb to keep roads slightly wider. In London, it's a definite no go.

Another common myth is that where double yellows are marked, if your tyres are clear of it, you're ok. That's not true. The entire length of your vehicle has to be clear (so any overhanging parts at the front or rear cannot be over the double yellows.

I sympathise on the bus lane, they can be rotten — around here there used to be two lanes, one for turning left, and one for right or straight on. The left hand lane is now a bus lane, apart from two car lengths at the end, so there are massive tailbacks at the junction, while everybody waits to get across because you're fined if you move across to early. If lots of buses used it I could understand it, but they don't!

Sorry, YABU, you made the mistakes and got fined for it. Like everyone does. I live in a London Borough, and yes I've had a wheel go into a bus lane before, not the whole car, just the back wheel when I was filtering into the lane where the bus lane ended. It was a pain in the ass but my mistake so I paid. I don't get why you'd expect these charges every month, unless you plan to deliberately do the same thing each month?

@Xoxoxoxoxoxox

I really don't think that you should be driving.

Oh please this is too much.
London drivers get tested and charged to a much higher standard than other cities, and I know a few companies that have stopped driving in London Boroughs because of the over surveilence and overcharging of fines.

I know a few companies that have stopped driving in London Boroughs because of the over surveilence and overcharging of fines. Which companies ?

[quote libertybonds]@MotionActivatedDog do you think it's fair for someone to be charged £130 every time they make a small error? I think that I may need to sell my car. I can't really afford to pay this every month. I have had a car since December and I haven't had any issues until being slammed with these two fines in one go.[/quote]
Entering a yellow box unless you are 100% certain you have a clear run through it is not a small error. Even if you see traffic moving ahead, if there isn’t a space ahead large enough for your vehicle, just don’t proceed.

I’ve been caught out on both the same issues you have. I’m afraid you have to own and pay up - pay early to reduce the charge. It hurts and you probably won’t do it again.

That link doesn't work so I'm not sure but wouldn't you be exiting the roundabout into the left hand lane if you were doing it correctly anyway?

www.google.com/maps/@53.4115372,-2.1635065,3a,75y,55.63h,83.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTWTewfSiJT453Z-34QV6Tw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DTWTewfSiJT453Z-34QV6Tw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D92.601814%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Not sure it it will work.

Regarding exiting the roundabout - not necessarily - the road is two lanes wide, so no reason not to exit on the outside line... (other than it's a damn bus lane!)

Road markings 'cutting off the lane' are there - but only visible if the lane is empty. If you follow a bus, you're done for. There SHOULD be prior warning, but there isn't.

[quote libertybonds]@yourestandingonmyneck obviously not! But frankly it seems difficult to avoid getting a PNC given how minor these offences are. What other terrible things might I accidentally do?[/quote]
You haven't done anything accidentally though?

Assuming your description is accurate, the mistakes you describe are human error & don't cause the problems these penalties are there to prevent i.e. you didn't block the junction & you didn't obstruct a bus. A minor mistake was made & you sought to correct it sensibly.

Sadly It's a cash cow & you have to pay. Driving is an increasingly horrible experience. I do 25k+ miles a year for work and Im beginning to hate it.

A similar situation occurs where lane markings on the floor exist... but you can't see them when traffic is over them. It's very easy to end up in a right turn lane only because the signage was not visible.

To get to my dads house I drive down a road with a school entrance. The council recently made it illegal to dive down there at certain times of day and put up road signs up accordingly. The first time I drove there after that I was on autopilot, didn't even notice the signs and drove down there at the wrong time. Quite rightly I got a ticket. People urged me to challenge it but it was a fair cop . I hadn't been paying proper attention to the road signage. I paid up and won't make the same mistake again.

You'll do lots of things accidentally. In most cases, you get away with it and learn. Particularly if it's a route you'll use often. You're more likely to have issues on unfamiliar routes in notoriously troublesome locations (like London!)

@MotionActivatedDog I’ve never used the phrase ‘a bunch of people’ in my life so not sure where that came from. I meant replies LIKE that;
‘just learn how to drive’
‘Read the highway code’ ‘I don’t think you should be driving’.
But you know that and are being purposefully obtuse. But I took the bait to ‘well done’ I suppose. 👏

Challenge them. If ever I saw an income generating scam it’s this.

LBWF is my home borough, the local Facebook pages often moan about the traffic cameras. At my end of the Borough almost all box junctions have cameras as do the many no right turns between 7.30am - 9.30am.

The general consensus is the council hates cars with the 20mph zones and mini Holland (not to mention all the new houses with no parking that are being built)

Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone who has managed to over turn the fines but people just tend to be really careful going forward.

I've been to this beauty!

[quote libertybonds]@MotionActivatedDog do you think it's fair for someone to be charged £130 every time they make a small error? I think that I may need to sell my car. I can't really afford to pay this every month. I have had a car since December and I haven't had any issues until being slammed with these two fines in one go.[/quote]
You're a new driver, you will live and learn like the rest of us.

There's no reason you should keep getting PCNs unless you don't learn from your mistakes.

[quote Onehotmess]@MotionActivatedDog I’ve never used the phrase ‘a bunch of people’ in my life so not sure where that came from. I meant replies LIKE that;
‘just learn how to drive’
‘Read the highway code’ ‘I don’t think you should be driving’.
But you know that and are being purposefully obtuse. But I took the bait to ‘well done’ I suppose. 👏[/quote]

I don’t think you even know what you said or what you wanted to say.

@VerticalHorizon

I've been to this beauty!

I don't understand this roundabout! Is there two way traffic on each bit?