To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

@VerticalHorizon

How is it hard to wait until you can clearly exit the box? Or to not drive in a bus lane.

There is a bus lane I sometimes pass in the right hand lane immediate off a roundabout:
www.google.com/maps/@53.4115372,-2.1635065,3a,75y,28.71h,72.35t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sTWTewfSiJT453Z-34QV6Tw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!9m2!1b1!2i40

If you happen to be behind a bus and do not know the area, you're done for. There is NO prior warning of it either.

Except it is very clearly marked on the approach that only the left hand land should be taking the exit where one lane is a bus lane.

I'm a very experienced driver in another part of the world where slightly different traffic rules apply, and where there is no CCTV enforcement.

So you're free to make mistakes with impunity there. I don't think that makes you a good driver, if that's what you mean by experienced.

Stockport bus lane

It’s never nice to get a penalty notice but most people don’t make these offences “on purpose”. The council doesn’t care why. If you pay within 2 weeks it’s £130 for both. If you appeal within two weeks and get refused, you can still pay half the fine as the appeal stops the time count so you get an extended time to pay the leaser charge.

@tallduckandhandsome what a rude response.

My UK driving instructor said I'm a great driver.

Stockport bus lane - really easy to avoid if following road markings.

@libertybonds I was told that as well.

So you learnt on your exam routes which bus lanes weren't in operation all the time.

Day-to-day when I was a tweenie and younger teenager, I use to keep an eye out for the hours of operation for bus lanes for family members who were driving. London boroughs are notorious for changing them to 24-7 ones.

Where does it say in that photo that the left hand lane is a bus lane?

[quote libertybonds]@tallduckandhandsome what a rude response.

My UK driving instructor said I'm a great driver.[/quote]
Why is it rude? It's a fact. I didn't say you are a bad driver, just that being an experienced driver in a country with no enforcement doesn't make you a good driver.

You could try appealing- you never know. But I wouldn't get your hopes up- a friend of mine had to move into a bus lane to let an ambulance through and her fine wasn't cancelled, despite it being clear from the camera what had happened. They tend to be pretty strict but you might get lucky.

I mean in photos 1&2? It only shows it’s a bus lane as you’re coming off the roundabout in photo 3.

@DynamoKev

Stockport bus lane - really easy to avoid if following road markings.

I disagree. You can only see the floor marking if there's no vehicle on it, same with the bus lane. There is no prior notice of an impending bus lane either.

@MaMelon

Where does it say in that photo that the left hand lane is a bus lane?

On the approach it's marked left land for turning left - so if you do that, you won't be heading into the bus lane. If you are in the right hand lane on the approach you shouldn't be taking the exit to the left which has a bus lane on the right of the two lanes. Follow the markings - no problems.

Don't understand the Stockport photos — looks as though you hit the bus lane automatically if you stay in the right hand lane?

Ah I see now thanks

If lots of traffic on the road markings a sign would help!

OP - YABNU. Those fines are completely disproportionate to the ‘crime’.

The left hand bus lane to Whipps Cross hospital (which sounds like this junction) is really very clearly marked. Must say, I've never seen it with no buses around the area.

Box junctions, you must wait until there is space for you at the other side before you start crossing them. It only took me doing this once to learn the lesson. I've not done it again.

Also, with Waltham Forest, if you pay within 14 days, it will only be £130 total, not £260.

Am I right that you are at least new to driving in the UK and maybe had to take a UK driving test? Because that's an argument for being even more careful.

I disagree. You can only see the floor marking if there's no vehicle on it, same with the bus lane. There is no prior notice of an impending bus lane either.
So If I found myself in the right hand land intending to turn left, I will see the straight ahead arrow unless I am not paying attention or really aggressively tailgating the vehicle ahead. AT that point I have to decide to obey the arrow or move lanes. It's not hard if you try and make an effort to drive properly.

It sounds as if you didn’t understand the thinking behind the thing your instructor said about being sure to drive in non-operational bus lanes. It’s about performative sign-reading for the purpose of your driving test.

Outside of a driving test it is still a good thing to use them because it makes best use of the road space but only if you are 100.000% sure it’s legal, which normally means on a road you use regularly or which is really well signed.

On the approach it's marked left land for turning left - so if you do that, you won't be heading into the bus lane. If you are in the right hand lane on the approach you shouldn't be taking the exit to the left which has a bus lane on the right of the two lanes. Follow the markings - no problems

Where is it marked? Can’t see that on the photos you’ve posted.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Don't understand the Stockport photos — looks as though you hit the bus lane automatically if you stay in the right hand lane?

Yes, because you shouldn’t be in the right hand lane to go left.

Left hand lane for left, right hand lane for straight on. No penalties.

If however, you decide to ignore the massive road arrows, and go left when in the right hand lane, you’ll end up in the bus lane and probably get fined.

@DynamoKev

I disagree. You can only see the floor marking if there's no vehicle on it, same with the bus lane. There is no prior notice of an impending bus lane either. So If I found myself in the right hand land intending to turn left, I will see the straight ahead arrow unless I am not paying attention or really aggressively tailgating the vehicle ahead. AT that point I have to decide to obey the arrow or move lanes. It's not hard if you try and make an effort to drive properly.

A sign would help!