to be devastated by BIL’s secret baby?

[toastlover100]

Last week DH and I were finally let in on the family secret. His brother’s ex parter has recently given birth to his child.

Supposedly she had tricked BIL into not using contraception. The in-laws story is that BIL was tricked into getting her pregnant and that he is an unwilling sperm donor.

Whilst BIL has fessed up that this baby is his, he gone NC with the ex and not met his child owing to feeling tricked and cheated. He is refusing DNA tests, child support etc. PIL don’t view the baby as their grandchild.

DH and I were only let in on this accidentally, have been sworn to secrecy , and are denied ever meeting our nephew. It feels like I am somehow grieving for this relationship that never will be.

AIBU to feel completely at a loss with how to move forward?

My son is ignored by all his aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents on his fathers side. Ex decided he didn’t want to see him anymore and they decided to support that decision and he also told them not to. Reach out to her.

What a horrible family.

@PiersPlowman so many men will do ANYTHING to wriggle out of wearing a condom, whining "because it doesn't feel as good". They'd rather pump us full of hormones 24/7 affecting our weight and moods and whatever else rather than have 7/10 sex.

I've had men say they would rather use a coat hanger on a woman than wear a condom if she got knocked up.

Male hormonal contraceptives have been slow (impossible) to get to market because the men in trials complain of 'side effects'. You know, the exact same side effects women get. But to men, they are unacceptable.

Bottom line is, society gets women to put up and shut up, and men can wriggle out of anything they don't like.

The most intelligent thing you've said is the suggestion of contraception for everyone at puberty, and only remove when TTC. Man's automatic state of inertia would mean they'd never remove it tho and humankind would probably die out...

@Sparklfairy

I was initially going to write a thoughtful reply, but I’ll just skip to the end.

Read back your post and then switch genders. Did you cut and paste that from an incel website?

My take on this is that your ILS have no right to dictate with whom you have a relaitonship. You and your DH are both adults and free agents. So I would reach out to the mother and try and build a relationship with her child- your nephew - if that is what the mother is happy to accept.

Whether you make that known to your disgusting ILS is another story of course. If they are all about family secrets then maybe that can be your secret from them. But they have absolutely no right at all to tell you what you can and cannot do.

@PiersPlowman I think you mean sex.

Society has us all trained that its the woman who gets stuck 'holding the baby' - pardon the pun - should an accidental or unwanted pregnancy happen. So, despite the numerous drawbacks, its ultimately up to us as women to ensure our contraception is watertight (as it can be).

There's no denying that men on the whole simply 'don't like' the reduced sensation of condoms, know they can walk away should the worst happen, wriggle out of child support... they're not the ones carrying a baby or going through the traumatic abortion. Ultimately a pregnancy to men is nothing more than a logistical headache.

I've only had one sexual partner who would wear one without a fuss. He understood that if HE did not want a kid, then it was up to him to use contraception.

At the end of the day, you can't trust anyone, even those you sleep with. Society needs to change so that the buck stops with you, as the individual, male or female, if you do not want sex to result in pregnancy. Not leave it up to the woman and blame her when it all goes tits up.

Curious to know what thoughtful reply you came up with though. I get the feeling that if you actually had one, you're the type to put the effort in shutting an argument down with your wisdom.

I've read so many stories on MN about women who say the man took his condom off or whatever without permission and the comments are always the same, that he committed a crime and should be punished ect.

Should that not also apply in this situation then? If he was under the impression that he was having sex with someone who was using contraception and then finds out she wasn't how is that not also a crime? Surely it has to work both ways?

Obviously I feel very sorry for the child in this situation but I also feel for the BIL because he has been given a responsibility he did not want or ask for. If the tables were turned the woman would have a choice to carry on with a pregnancy or not if she had been tricked about contraception but a man does not have that same choice.

You can still meet your nephew if you want. He will be your blood relative, regardless of how he was brought into the world.

@EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall

If he didn't want responsibility for a child he should have taken responsibility by putting a condom on. Don't leave it up to someone else them bitch and moan

So if a woman doesn't want a child it's her responsibility? If she thought the man had a condom on and he didn't, then bad luck her and she should stop moaning because it's her fault for not looking after her own contraception? No, it's rape.

@Sparklfairy

"I get the feeling that if you actually had one, you're the type to put the effort in shutting an argument down with your wisdom."

Yes, well you see, in order to shut down an argument, there must first exist a coherent one to respond to. I will concede that the part about pumping women full of hormones did raise a chuckle.

"Society has us all trained that its the woman who gets stuck 'holding the baby'"

You may not like it, but this is biology, Sparklfairy. Mother nature ordained that women should bear children, and also that, biologically speaking, the man's involvement ends with him emptying himself. Of course responsible fathers will stick around and raise their child, but the inescapable fact is that it is only the good character of the man which impels him to be a responsible father. Unlike the woman, he is not being held to a biological imperative. Feminism can spin gender politics any way it likes, but my point is a fundamental and irrefutable truth.

That men do not like wearing condoms is not a revelation! Take control of your own contraception. Insist that they wear condoms. Refrain from sex. You have choices. You have agency.

Stop being the victim.

I would make your own decision about contact OP. Your in laws and BIL are vile. I have no doubt that my exP told his family that I had tricked him. I absolutely did not. My child resulted from a second pregnancy with him. His behaviour did not change in any way after I lost the first pregnancy. Our relationship (which ran for 4 years) ended because he had a long affair with his assistant. I saw their messages and he was also having unprotected sex with her at the same time. He is now engaged to her and they play happy families with his three older children who know nothing about their younger sibling. My situation is slightly different in that his family and sister keep in touch and make an effort with our child. There will be a horrendous fallout in the future when this all comes out and his other children find out there is another child. I can't tell you how horrible it is to have a partner who told you they loved and wanted you and your child run off and cut contact with the child. It is absolutely hideous and anyone who condones this deserves to be publicly shamed. I don't usually comment on threads like this as my child and I have a really good life without her father but I have been completely honest that there are other siblings and if my child wants to contact them when they are older I would support it. The PIL and aunt in my case have 'tried' to convince my exP to tell his other children but he refuses and they don't want to upset him. I guess in your situation that your BIL is married? Please don't punish the child for the actions of a feckless shitty parent. If you want to get to know the child, the mother may be very pleased to hear from you.

I wouldn't want anything to do with my in-laws or BIL if they behaved liked that, absolutely disgusting.

If he was under the impression that he was having sex with someone who was using contraception and then finds out she wasn't how is that not also a crime? Surely it has to work both ways?
Nope. His stupidity is the real crime.
If avoiding pregnancy is the top priority, one must actually and actively take precautions. The lazy option of relying on someone elses say so despite pregnancy being an absolute no go is stupid and done for no other reason than his own pleasure.

Or how about the party that wants absolutely NO chance of a child actually makes sure that it won't happen.

I dont blame you for being upset!!

What tossers they are to absolve their son and blame his xgf

If he didn't want a baby he shouldn't have had sex with her. He did, now there's a baby and it's incredibly cruel for the family to wash their hands of him. I wouldn't be going along with their nasty little charade. What does your dh think?

I reckon you need to take an enormous step back.
Unless you know this woman you dont actually know what has gone on. There are a huge number of variations, all of it filtered by others.
I would very firmly state you want no part of this "secret". Its got nothing to do with you. And that means no discussion.
It will resolve itself.
If she claims maintenance and he refuses a DNA test, they will take the money from him anyway. You are not their conscience, they are all adults.

@CJsGoldfish

If he was under the impression that he was having sex with someone who was using contraception and then finds out she wasn't how is that not also a crime? Surely it has to work both ways? Nope. His stupidity is the real crime. If avoiding pregnancy is the top priority, one must actually and actively take precautions. The lazy option of relying on someone elses say so despite pregnancy being an absolute no go is stupid and done for no other reason than his own pleasure.

Or how about the party that wants absolutely NO chance of a child actually makes sure that it won't happen.

I agree that both parties should be responsible for contraception. My comment was more directed at all of the comments saying how out of order the BIL was, but on most other threads where this has happened to a woman people are in uproar that a crime has been committed. There just seems to always be a lot of double standards on this site.

@Juststopasking

If he didn't want a baby he shouldn't have had sex with her. He did, now there's a baby and it's incredibly cruel for the family to wash their hands of him. I wouldn't be going along with their nasty little charade. What does your dh think?

So nobody should have sex unless they want to make a baby?!

I think if IF a woman actively lies to increase the chances of getting pregnant (e g. saying she's on the pill when not) then that's an awful thing to do. However, I think that the majority of the time "she tricked me" is code for either "contraception failed and I don't like the consequences so it must be someone's fault" or "I changed my mind and want to make myself look less like a bastard".

I think it's hard to keep a secret like this - my dad was a secret child (albiet not until adulthood). My aunt was nearer my age than his. She was told about our existence on her 18th birthday by her own aunt. Her relationship with her parents never recovered.

So nobody should have sex unless they want to make a baby?!

Well given that no form of contraception is 100% we should always be aware it's a possibility, right?

That shouldn't be shocking.

[quote PiersPlowman]@Sparklfairy

"I get the feeling that if you actually had one, you're the type to put the effort in shutting an argument down with your wisdom."

Yes, well you see, in order to shut down an argument, there must first exist a coherent one to respond to. I will concede that the part about pumping women full of hormones did raise a chuckle.

"Society has us all trained that its the woman who gets stuck 'holding the baby'"

You may not like it, but this is biology, Sparklfairy. Mother nature ordained that women should bear children, and also that, biologically speaking, the man's involvement ends with him emptying himself. Of course responsible fathers will stick around and raise their child, but the inescapable fact is that it is only the good character of the man which impels him to be a responsible father. Unlike the woman, he is not being held to a biological imperative. Feminism can spin gender politics any way it likes, but my point is a fundamental and irrefutable truth.

That men do not like wearing condoms is not a revelation! Take control of your own contraception. Insist that they wear condoms. Refrain from sex. You have choices. You have agency.

Stop being the victim.[/quote]
It seems you're unable to have a reasoned debate without resorting to being patronising.

I do take control of my own contraception. I've got this far without having a child, so I think I'm doing pretty well on that front. I'm not a 'victim', and never said I was. But now I'm older and wiser, I've become pretty fed up with male entitlement and the consequences for women. As an example, I am terrible at remembering to take the pill. At the time, the boyfriend's 'solution' was not to double up with a condom, but for me to go on the depo injection. Then he got arsey when I put on weight and didn't want to have sex because I was having unpredictable bleeding. Surely it would have been easier all round to wear a condom...

As for your condescending spiel about biology, I clearly meant literally and figuratively 'holding the baby'. Can you explain why it is, that if a man walks out on his child (at any point in their lives), it's just shrugged at by others (and often must be the mother's fault somehow), yet if a woman does the same they become a social pariah? It's assumed they're heartless and cold at best, or mentally unstable and incapable at worst. Men don't get that. Why?

Men may not like wearing condoms, but speak to any woman and ask if they 'like' the mood swings, weight gain, headaches, erratic unpredictable bleeding, depression and more that comes with hormonal contraception? Yet we still have to use it. Men get a slight loss of sensation and somehow the possibility of a child is preferable, purely because it's socially acceptable to just not acknowledge its existence in a way women cannot.

I will concede that the part about pumping women full of hormones did raise a chuckle. - I'd really like to know why?

Personally I'd stop grieving, reach out and begin a supportive relationship with the mum and your nephew. I'm sure she'd love that, having been so savagely turned away by the rest of the family. The little one is your family! Your BIL has blown it IMO. What a horrible piece of work and I have no words for grandparents ignoring their own grandchild. Unbelievable.

Your BiL has a bit of a shock coming if he thinks he can evade responsibility for this child forever. He can be forced to have a DNA test through the courts. Does he realise that?

@themummylovescake

Anyone walking into this thread must think that sex is the equivalent of a game of Russian roulette with five of the six chambers filled!

Posters here are talking as if condoms are some sort of magical get out of jail card where, in fact, next to other methods of contraception, they are comparatively ineffective. Even the withdrawal method used properly, is 96% effective! With that in mind, shouldn't all women be on the pill?

There seem to be a few women here who would quite happily snap their fingers for their men to indulge them with a bit of muff diving, and afterwards tell the guys to jerk off under the shower!

Horrible behaviour.

Yet we are somehow OK with a Prime Minister who in effect does almost the same?