to be devastated by BIL’s secret baby?

[toastlover100]

Last week DH and I were finally let in on the family secret. His brother’s ex parter has recently given birth to his child.

Supposedly she had tricked BIL into not using contraception. The in-laws story is that BIL was tricked into getting her pregnant and that he is an unwilling sperm donor.

Whilst BIL has fessed up that this baby is his, he gone NC with the ex and not met his child owing to feeling tricked and cheated. He is refusing DNA tests, child support etc. PIL don’t view the baby as their grandchild.

DH and I were only let in on this accidentally, have been sworn to secrecy , and are denied ever meeting our nephew. It feels like I am somehow grieving for this relationship that never will be.

AIBU to feel completely at a loss with how to move forward?

If your partner wants to be safe and wear a condom, then you say yes
It really depends on the situation. If my partner said that he would be completely devastated if I was to fall pregnant, however small the risk due to complete adherence to birth control and I'd told him that in no circumstances would I ever have an abortion, then yes, I could respect his decision to wear a condom every single time.

If however he wouldn't be completely against being a dad but not yet, I assured him I'd be ok with an abortion and he still insisted on wearing a condom, I'd definitely take it that he doesn't trust be, in which case, the relationship would be over.

@vivainsomnia

Then you're ridiculous. You're saying that a man should not have free reign over wearing a condom if he doesnt currently want to try for a baby because YOU ARE happy to get an abortion? And no woman has ever changed her mind about abortion, has she? So that's totally reliable. And no man has ever found his partner getting an abortion hard, so why should he care if that ends up having to happen?

If you would break up with someone because they want to take their own responsible measures to prevent a child, no matter what else is offered, then you dont deserve that person anyway.

@Whattheactualfk

Yes, she is. But that doesnt make it any less true that forcing a man to have sex without a condom to prove he trusts you is not OK. It doesnt matter what contraception a woman is using. If a man wants to wear a condom then that's that. You dont get to say it means they dont trust you.
Contraception fails. Wearing a condom anyway doesnt mean he assumed out are lieing, which is what your post implied. It means he wants to he safe and you dont get to play the victim because he wants to use a condom.

If he was under the impression that he was having sex with someone who was using contraception and then finds out she wasn't how is that not also a crime? Surely it has to work both ways?

Maybe she was using contraception.

The only method that's 100% effective is abstinence.

A friend's former long term girlfriend admitted that she'd lied about being on the pill because she'd changed her mind & wanted children.
They split up as a result.
The child was welcomed into my friend's family, he paid child maintenance, childcare costs & towards his son's degree.
Before his son was even born, my friend also had a vasectomy. Once bitten....

if he has sex and he himself does not use contraception (condom) he cannot claim to have been "tricked"

The implication of this is that there a woman lying about using contraception should have no impact on an assessment of her or his morality. I disagree.

you'd ignore a grandchild and not give two hoots about their welfare? If you both were committed to not having children, how did you end up adopting? This isn't an area were opinions can be set in stone, or black and white, unless something is missing in a person.

IF it was a child that my son planned, wanted and was willing to play a role in their life - no. If he didn't want it and felt tricked into becoming a father then I'd support him. He's my priority. As it is he is adamant he doesn't want children and if he ended up fathering one by mistake he would pay up but not want to be involved. My daughter would have an abortion. For people who don't want children a baby is never a blessing - just a burden. I think that is not really understood on here sometimes.

Their mother was my husband's sister. She died, we inherited them.

Are you saying I'm missing something? In which case I agree - I'm missing that part that thinks babies are somehow someone's right - both men and women. I'm also missing that bit that disbelieves women are capable of messing with their contraception in order to conceive when they know their partner doesn't want kids and trusts them - I'm a doctor. Trust me I see this. I'm also missing the bit where I'm supposed to care for a grandchild that I don't want, my husband doesn't want and, more importantly, my children don't want. We'd pay, but not want to be involved.

If a woman decides she wants an abortion, a man doesn't always get a say in that and may lose out on a child he would have liked to have because of the woman's decision. You can't make her keep the baby. The reverse is true, she may carry a baby he doesn't want to parent. In that case she chose to continue despite knowing he wasn't going to be involved and do she shouldn't expect him to pay fur and be involved with that child.

I can't imagine not being involved BUT I can see that it's really shitty if you didn't want a child, she knew that and had one anyway and now expects you to be part of it.

I still don't understand why you can't be in touch with in laws that made the choice they made.

I have an in law who has children by more than one woman. I don't agree with this but I still care about him and I'm part of the family.

I don't agree with having children outside of marriage but I wouldn't write someone off for doing that etc.

The reverse is true, she may carry a baby he doesn't want to parent. In that case she chose to continue despite knowing he wasn't going to be involved and do she shouldn't expect him to pay fur and be involved with that child.

But the child exists, and he IS a father however much he stamps his feet and cries "shan't". I don't think she mentioned maintenance, but ignoring your living child is the mark of an irredeemably shitty human being.

I can't imagine not being involved BUT I can see that it's really shitty if you didn't want a child, she knew that and had one anyway and now expects you to be part of it.

If only there were things that could help a man keep his poor hunted sperm to himself. Maybe one day...

But seriously, if I was a man and didn't want to impregnate someone, I think I'd take the hit of slightly reduced physical sensation. The sheer amount of arrogance involved in men thinking "No, don't like condoms, if she gets pregnant she'll take care of it" is mind-boggling. But do not worry, most of them get their wish and the woman takes care of it, one way or another.

I think it is your business op. Your inlaws have turned out to be cunts and what could have been an exviting addition to the family is treated like an outsider.

But the child exists, and he IS a father however much he stamps his feet and cries "shan't". I don't think she mentioned maintenance, but ignoring your living child is the mark of an irredeemably shitty human being.

Are women who give up their babies for adoption (or have abortions) shitty human beings?
There are lots of reasons why women give away their babies. And why women have abortions. It doesn't make them bad people.
Women should have the choice to carry and care for their babies or not. But so should men.
And, I think it's best not to have a shitty unwilling father in our lives.

@Lweji I think anyone who has unprotected sex, knowing a baby could be the outcome and ignores their child when they are here is a shitty person.

Abortions are slightly different - they don't result in a human being who has to live with the turmoil and complicated feelings that come with having an absent parent/s.

My dad decided he was too young to have me (24) whilst also admitting that him and my mum didn't use any protection. I have no relationship with him, he then went on to have another 4 kids. He is indeed a very shitty person.

Take responsibility for your choices.

@HellHasNoFur

Oh come on. If a woman says she can’t have kids or she has the coil fitted or she’s on the pill a man might have sex with her thinking he can’t get her pregnant. If she has lied about those things and does get pregnant then she has ‘tricked’ him.

It’s not the child’s fault though and to just ignore them because you didn’t plan them is shit. If the mother is that unhinged the child will need the balance of a sensible parent. Women get pregnant unintentionally all the time and they don’t (or very rarely) get to just tantrum, say they didn’t want it and walk away and pretend they don’t have a child

This.

I think anyone who has unprotected sex, knowing a baby could be the outcome and ignores their child when they are here is a shitty person.

Anyone? Really?
No empathy at all towards all those who have found that, for one reason or another, they couldn't care for the child?

If this man being in the child's life would mess it up even more, then he's better off being away.
It's the people who insist on being in the children's lives but without really being there that I think do the most damage and find the least sympathy towards.
If they never met the child and never created a relationship, it's having "a" child that they rejected, not the child personally. When they reject the children after creating a relationship with them, then it's personal.

Women get pregnant unintentionally all the time and they don’t (or very rarely) get to just tantrum, say they didn’t want it and walk away and pretend they don’t have a child

But they do. Either by having an abortion or by giving away the child.
The thing is, though, that women tend to develop a relationship with the baby growing inside them. Walking away is much harder.
Women are not inherently better than men.

@Lweji

I think anyone who has unprotected sex, knowing a baby could be the outcome and ignores their child when they are here is a shitty person.

Anyone? Really?
No empathy at all towards all those who have found that, for one reason or another, they couldn't care for the child?

If this man being in the child's life would mess it up even more, then he's better off being away.
It's the people who insist on being in the children's lives but without really being there that I think do the most damage and find the least sympathy towards.
If they never met the child and never created a relationship, it's having "a" child that they rejected, not the child personally. When they reject the children after creating a relationship with them, then it's personal.

my empathy lays with the child who didnt ask to be here far more.

and truthfully, no the distinction didnt help me feel any less rejected in my teen years when I found out about him. now I'm an adult I can see him for what he is but my teen years were emotionally tough because of it. not all, but often men who do this in my experience go on to have other children which makes it even more tough on the child who was abandoned.

the only exception to this is if someone was raped/deliberately misled because someone tampered with birth control (ie. holes in condoms).

not adults who had unprotected sex knowing full well what the possible outcome could be.

@Lweji

Women get pregnant unintentionally all the time and they don’t (or very rarely) get to just tantrum, say they didn’t want it and walk away and pretend they don’t have a child

But they do. Either by having an abortion or by giving away the child.
The thing is, though, that women tend to develop a relationship with the baby growing inside them. Walking away is much harder.
Women are not inherently better than men.

I know 5 absent parents. genuinely - only one is a woman and she had them removed from her care because she was a drinker. you can't argue with the stats - men are far more likely to be the parent who leaves.

So sorry op. He’s a shit.

you can't argue with the stats - men are far more likely to be the parent who leaves.

I can actually argue with the stats. Statistics can be used to show whatever you want if not interpreted correctly.
Women have the option to about their babies. Men don't. If a woman decides to carry on with a pregnancy, then of course she's more likely to keep the baby. But women still carry on and give up babies.
There's also huge social pressure on women to keep the children, even if they become bad parents.

And I didn't argue that women were less likely to give up babies once they are born. I argued that they are not inherently less inclined, but that there is a set of circumstances (including the bonding during pregnancy) that leads to women rejecting their children less than men.

@SecretSpAD

I'm also missing the bit where I'm supposed to care for a grandchild that I don't want, my husband doesn't want and, more importantly, my children don't want. We'd pay, but not want to be involved.

I guess my thoughts on this question would be that if your son fathers a child then he may not want it but that doesn't actually stop him from being responsible for it. If he is certain that he doesn't ever want children then has he had/will he have a vasectomy (I appreciate he may be too young for this now), does/will he ALWAYS use a condom or will he remain abstinent? Because contraceptive failures do occur, even in couples where the chosen method(s) are being used completely correctly.

If he chooses have sex (however well protected) there is a risk that it may result in a pregnancy. I find it odd that you'd support him in responding to that theoretical scenario with, "Well, I don't want it, so I'll do the bare minimum required by the law and not care about the actual human being I've contributed towards creating." It's not any resulting child's fault if they are conceived in that way.

P. S. I can't find a way of writing this that doesn't come off really sarcastic sounding, but I think it's amazing that you and your husband committed to raising the children even though you had never wanted a family yourselves.

@Lweji

you can't argue with the stats - men are far more likely to be the parent who leaves.

I can actually argue with the stats. Statistics can be used to show whatever you want if not interpreted correctly.
Women have the option to about their babies. Men don't. If a woman decides to carry on with a pregnancy, then of course she's more likely to keep the baby. But women still carry on and give up babies.
There's also huge social pressure on women to keep the children, even if they become bad parents.

And I didn't argue that women were less likely to give up babies once they are born. I argued that they are not inherently less inclined, but that there is a set of circumstances (including the bonding during pregnancy) that leads to women rejecting their children less than men.

No but men and women do have the option of not going round having unprotected sex, not when in this day and age contraception is so easy to come by.

Like I said, because it happened to me I do feel quite strongly about it but I don't think it is a as straight forward as 'oops I made a mistake, never mind I will ignore and pretend the child doesn't exist' because it is a real human being who will grow up influenced by the decision you choose to make.

Like I said my sympathy lies mostly with the children in these situations, and those who had no choice - as I stated previously raped/contraception deliberately meddled with.

Like I said my sympathy lies mostly with the children in these situations, and those who had no choice - as I stated previously raped/contraception deliberately meddled with.

I agree.

It's just that people often have to deal with their own problems and demons. It's too easy to say that are shitty human beings.

What does your husband think?

Of course he was tricked .

He's pathetic and needs to step up.

Actually, if you and your DH wanted to know your nephew then why shouldn't you. It's not down to your BIL and PIL's who are a piece of shit to decide who that poor child has contact with.

That family is a disgrace.

[quote toastlover100]@SinisterBumFacedCat thank you - yes to the emotions policing.

To clear it up, DH and I do not currently have DC, but would dearly love them. We are currently struggling with infertility. Maybe that has some bearing on my sadness. Actually, of course it does. I did not realise that it would be helpful to share that within this context.[/quote]
I had a feeling that this would be the case. Of course this will cause stronger feelings in you than in other people who haven't struggled with infertility.