Bitchy mums at school

[Iamcatwalk]

Ok, long story cut short. My kid is in a school ( particularly in his class) where mums insist too much on socialising. There’s is group of four mums who are bitchy and quite snobbish. These mums when together wouldn’t talk to me but if I meet them separately, three of them are quite nice to me. When we gather together in a party ( they talk through eyes ), not a single of them say hello or acknowledge my presence. I tried my best to be good with them for years but now recently it feels like it’s NOT ME actually, it’s THEM. I thought I am not trying enough. They also try to include others with them and try every possible way to make me alone and miserable. They are very good with other mums or any new people for that matter. I am Asian so is it just because of my skin colour that makes them hate me or something else ? I can’t believe what happiness people get by making other people feel so miserable. Are they not happy in their life so they feel happy after bitching about others ? Seriously can’t understand at all. Help me with your views and opinions.

I agree that a 4/5 year old needs to be supervised but I’ve never had a 7/8 year old who has wanted his/her parents hanging around at parties. The OP said this had been going on for several years - there’s obviously some social situations arising here that don’t occur in my school and are probably not that mandatory.

[quote ChunkyKitKat123]@thepeopleversuswork I think for most people, they want their child to be happy and to have friends and not be excluded. When children are primary school age, you're kind of forced to socialise with other parents because the children have to be supervised, e.g at play dates and birthday parties. So it's not that easy to cut someone out of your life, if their children and yours are friends, which is what the OP's situation seems to be. It's then doubly hurtful to be on the receiving end of cliquey behaviour, because it doesn't just affect you, it could also potentially affect your child's friendships and school experience. I think that's why people are sensitive about the whole "school gate" thing.
[/quote]
I get this...

but I don't think you necessarily need to cut the parents out of the child's life, just hold your ground in your relationship with the parents.

At the root of a lot of this seems to be needy and people-pleasing behaviour on behalf of certain parents, who come to expect certain social perks because their kids are hanging out with other kids at school. Some parents seem to see this as a way to improve their own social networks etc.

I don't think it sets a great example to the kids either. Children need to learn to build their own friendships under their own steam. Of course some supervision is needed with small children but the friendships ultimately will stand or fall on the basis of the children's own relationships. How the parents get on is irrelevant. Also if you send the message that building friendship is a transactional thing whereby you are "owed" friendship because you've hosted a certain number of coffee mornings or bought presents for the right kids' parties it suggests an entitlement.

Of course be civil and friendly to parents and support friendships where you can. But don't create expectations and don't try to align your own network building with your kids social circle. That's always going to end in tears.

It does make you wonder, especially when a poster says they assumed OP was Hindu because they have a Hindu friend who is veggie and a non drinker. I have Hindu friends who are veggie and non drinkers (and a few who are not ) but then I also have Muslim, Jain, Buddhist and Taoist friends and acquaintances who are veggie and don’t drink. So one assumes she is Hindu?

What’s actually wrong with you? My response was based on another poster asking about cultural dress and I was right. I commented also I felt it wasn’t relevant. Don’t try to make that something it’s not and that the op was perfectly fine with.

Thank you so much. You get the whole point. At this age when a child needs to be supervised, one cannot ignore at all. You are there in that situation can’t avoid it at all.

@ChunkyKitKat123 Thank you so much. You get the whole point. At this age when a child needs to be supervised, one cannot ignore at all. You are there in that situation can’t avoid it at all.

@thepeopleversuswork tbh I am perfectly fine and happy with all this happening. It doesn’t bother me at all. I just wanted to know the reactions of people, their opinions and views in this situation. That’s all I wanted to see. My child is flourishing at school. From the beginning I made sure that he makes friendships all by himself without my involvement. I never asked him to be friends eith this child or that child even though their mums are like so cold. He has very good and solid friendships. He’s a lovely child and is loved by most in his class. To tell you a fact I have known these mums for 4-5 years. Have been to many coffee mornings or social events with them. They are just there and I can’t avoid them at all.

@Iamcatwalk

If it doesn't bother you at all, why post about it?

It's good that you're helping your child make his own friendships and he sounds popular and well-adjusted.

I just don't think the over-investment in the lives of a bunch of women you're thrown together with completely at random is healthy either for you or for your child. I know its not as easy as it sounds but I think you need to take a big step back from it all. Expect nothing and you may be positively surprised.

But of course you can avoid them! Coffee mornings and social events are not mandatory. I worked FT while DS was in the junior classes at primary and was never able to attend anything that happened during the day, and often not at night, as DH travelled and we had no night-time childcare.

I certainly encountered a few thoroughly unpleasant fellow-parents when our children, who were friends, still needed a parent present at a play date or party, but I just regarded them as rather like colleagues, just in my life by chance and temporarily. Their excluding behaviour towards me — a rare foreigner in a very insular place — didn’t cost me sleepless nights

OP, I've just had a thought.

And there's no diplomatic way of writing it, so I'll just say it how it is, and hope you don't take offence.

Have they got a problem with your DC? As in your "little Suzy" has been pulling their "little Jane's" pigtails and they think you know about it, and are doing nothing about it?

That would explain why one of them has taken umbrage with you. Has perhaps said to the other three, "that's Suzy's mother, you know, the mean one who's been making my little Jane cry, and the mother does nothing about it"

Then the other 3 might smile while on their own out of politeness, but when the 4th (Jane's mum) is about, they blank you, to show support for her.

Or, perhaps her Jane has been mean to your Suzy. And Suzy has told the teachers, and the teachers have had a word with Jane's mum, and Jane's mum does not take well to her wonderful daughter being called out. Again, Jane's mum presumes you know about it, and blanks you in behalf of your Suzy "telling tales" on her perfect daughter.

Any chance something like this is going on?

@thepeopleversuswork i am sure there are lots of mum in mumsnet who has gone thrift similar situation like mine. As I mentioned earlier at the initial years I thought I looked unfriendly but over the years I realised actually it’s not I oook unfriendly, its what they behave on purpose. May be most of people are right, we don’t share commonalities , that could be the reason but we meet different people in our lives ( where we cannot ignore people ), just because i don’t share anything common with them doesn’t mean I should br disrespected or blanked out like that.

@TwinsAndTrifle
No I don’t think so. My DC is one of the nicest one in the class. He loves everybody and also loved by all.

@Iamcatwalk

Of course you shouldn't be disrespected, but you do seem to be very over-invested in the whole situation. You are wondering whether you look "unfriendly", for example. People just don't think much about this sort of thing and you can't win by worrying about it.

You need to get to a place where you literally don't give it a moment's thought and it doesn't matter whether they are doing it on purpose or not, or what your face looks like or if you think some people think you may look unfriendly. It doesn't matter. None of it matters.

I know that sounds easier than it is but you won't crack this while you devote this much time to it. You will just tie yourself up in knots wondering about minor interactions and real or imaginary sleights. Your over-investment in it is showing and I'd be prepared to bet that this is the main reason why you are getting weird vibes off these people.

In the kindest possible way, you need to do a bit of work to train yourself to not care about this. That will make you relax, it will help your child relax and odds on people will trust and warm to you more.

To all those who recommended Motherland. Stated watching it, it’s hilarious. 😂

@thepeopleversuswork brilliant ! Doesn’t make sense why I am talking and thinking about this so much. And you are spot on with the vibe thing. Somehow felt to post and know different perspectives.

[quote ChunkyKitKat123]@thepeopleversuswork I think for most people, they want their child to be happy and to have friends and not be excluded. When children are primary school age, you're kind of forced to socialise with other parents because the children have to be supervised, e.g at play dates and birthday parties. So it's not that easy to cut someone out of your life, if their children and yours are friends, which is what the OP's situation seems to be. It's then doubly hurtful to be on the receiving end of cliquey behaviour, because it doesn't just affect you, it could also potentially affect your child's friendships and school experience. I think that's why people are sensitive about the whole "school gate" thing.
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This explains the issue so well.

I faced some awful mums when my ds was smaller. I was slowly excluded (when we had all been friends), but the thing that bothered me was my ds was soon phased out too. One of the boys was his best friend and he couldn’t understand why he played with him all the time at school, but was not included on anything outside. Fortunately my ds is a great kid and soon made lovely new friends and it hasn’t really affected him long term which I was hugely worried about at the time.

Funnily enough, some of the kids/parents have now left the school and the few remaining boys from that group no longer get on with each other. One in particular is very keen to befriend my ds and his group, and funnily enough now the invites are coming thick and fast! The great thing at this age is the kids can get together but it doesn’t need to involve you and I’m a rational human being perfectly happy for my son to spend time with whoever he likes as long as they are nice (which he is).

I have no idea why grown ups feel the need to exclude anyone but it is more about them than you so don’t try to assume any reasoning. Not offering you a suitable drink or food is just plain rude and had I made an oversight like that I would have felt terrible and ensured that something was made available. The fact they didn’t does seem to indicate that they just don’t care, they are actively trying to make you feel uncomfortable or their manners need work. The way they are behaving is awful but I agree that, while it is tough at this stage, just stay away as much as the situation allows and try not to let it bother you. These years don’t last long.

School gate politics reminds me of dog play-areas a lot. We don't go there and if we are near, we stay away from the area.
Get yourself a book, listen to a podcast, don't feel like you need to socialise for the sake of socialising. Best time ever.

There’s people like this at my sons nursery, people are nice enough, they’ve invited me to a group chat etc, when they are in a group they don’t talk to me but singly they will, they don’t even acknowledge me when they are in a group.

I’m Muslim and wear a hijab ( they aren’t Muslim ) and wondered if that’s why they leave me out, or if they dislike me because of that , at time Ive felt like removing my hijab just to fit in with them but then I realised I shouldn’t change my selves for the sake of others, they should like me for who I am and not only talk to me when no one else is looking oe they have no one else to speak to

@Zee23 kudos to you for not changing yourself just to fit in. People must love you for who you are NOT for something else. I wouldn’t change myself a bit just to fit in.

@LuaDipa yes. That’s what I was talking about. Such an immature behaviour on their part. This behaviour doesn’t give me pain but I feel angry and pity on them to have such a mindset. They need to grow up OR should learn some manners or basic etiquettes.

It’s exactly like being in the school playground again isn’t it! I had similar experiences when my children were at school. Kids grow up though and after a while your links with the school grow weaker. Concentrate on your real friends and don’t worry about these women. I expect they were the mean girls at their own school too! You take care.