To feel sad when you are the only childless person...

[Namechangeme1]

Just that really. I never thought this would be me but I feel really sad that life is different.

That not having children would make you feel so alien to 95% or other people.

DH says find new friends. I find this impossible - I'm outgoing and confident but whenever starting new relationships they seem to be flaky and then fizzle out or feel like a one way street.

It's a really sad situation and feel it burdens females most - has anyone else had this happen to them? Any advice?

I just feel like my youth is almost over and unless I also become a parent I'll be an outsider forever amongst most friendship groups.

It's just not the same - people change after children. It's not for better or for worse but it's just difficult to maintain solid friendships after.

By the way the friend i mention who does have kids and we are close - he’s a guy. All male do workers and friends in my department are equal or primary carers for their kids, often had kids pop up on zoom during lockdowns and I’ve walked into numerous guy to girl or guy to guy water cooler chats at work about football, phonics or what have you.

'Honestly my DH talks about our kids during his work meetings even and even brings them to the screen at times when he works from home'

Um, why does he do this? I wouldn't be impressed if he was my colleague

'Honestly my DH talks about our kids during his work meetings even and even brings them to the screen at times when he works from home'

This exactly is an example of self absorption of some parents though.

Do you think the colleagues are that bothered? How long do the kids pop up? Maybe a few minutes. Or does the child stay for the whole hour zoom meeting? Because that would be ridiculous if they're in the whole work meeting. And if they're not then they are not present long enough for anyone to have an issue with it likely.

Just because you child goes on zoom work meeting s what makes you think the colleagues were interested - honestly did they beg your DH to bring the child on?

I

I felt like this for a long time and was excluded from most of village life. It was very hurtful. I've now moved - and got a dog. Having her has been a revelation- everyone says hello, we've met loads of people because of her and one of the mums my age said that when parents drop their kids off at the school bus stop all they then talk about are the dogs! It's the first time I've been included like this and I love it.

*I think it’s sexist to hold men’s lifestyle as the true example of what’s right instead of challenge it

Women as a segment of society and evolutionary speaking have been socialised better at taking on nurturing roles and therefore it’s men that need to look up to what we do and try step up with their parenting*

But what does this have to do with my point? I agree men should be better parents but that isn't what the thread is about.

I'm not trying to aspire to be a man. I'm just not interested in other peoples children that much and the point I'm making is that as a female that is deemed as unacceptable when you are part of a friendship group that all have kids.

However, for men they don't have that expectation to care and talk Ann the time about their friends kids and that's fact. And rightly so - having an extreme interest on other peoples kids has no impact on parenting/how good a parent you'll be etc so has nothing to do with the point you're making at all.

It must be your friends, mine are of a mix of child free or an only now a teenager or late starters with preschool/school DC we never mention the DC on WhatsApp and rarely when we meet up, a casual ask after the DC like I casually ask the child free friends how are the loved ones?

*This exactly is an example of self absorption of some parents though.

Do you think the colleagues are that bothered? How long do the kids pop up? Maybe a few minutes. Or does the child stay for the whole hour zoom meeting? Because that would be ridiculous if they're in the whole work meeting. And if they're not then they are not present long enough for anyone to have an issue with it likely. *

No it’s not an example of self absorption. It’s an example of a man who isn’t ashamed to be a father just like I’m not ashamed of being a mother.

If someone’s cat came and popped on the screen or dog you wouldn’t say that. During lockdown, we all know fully well that kids often have two busy parents and one of them might need to be lenient enough. Or did you think they should be with me because I’m the mother while he focuses on work? Check your own misogyny if so.

Cant you see how unrealistic and uncompromising your standards are? Thankfully his colleagues welcomed it and entertained our child for the minute that he popped on every now and then and then resumed the convo.

It so happens that children are curious about their parents and that the home is their sanctuary.

I’m face, his colleagues asked him to bring him to work one day before lockdown and we did and they took turns to play with him. And they’re all childless men and women except one.

Now I’m not saying you need to do that or accept that. You’re free with what is comfortable to you. But don’t judge parents for enjoying a life without having to make their children disappear. They don’t owe that to the planet

However, for men they don't have that expectation to care and talk Ann the time about their friends kids and that's fact. And rightly so - having an extreme interest on other peoples kids has no impact on parenting/how good a parent you'll be etc so has nothing to do with the point you're making at all.

Society has no expectation on men full stop. If they act like good parents then they’re a rare breed and if they don’t then their lifestyle is an aspiration.

We facilitate that don’t we.

Maybe I'll lose friends but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Men don't have to pretend to be interested in their friends kids because society doesn't expect it - so why should I have to

OMG this so so SO much!

Why are children the taboo subject no one finds interesting? Do I find random tinder dates interesting? First time homeowner problems interesting? Ailing mother stories interesting?
Anything talked about at length can ware but I don’t see why children are the worst subject- honestly I’m surprised anyone on MN has friends IRL

So this thread isn't about people feeling upset when kids are mentioned because it's something they're longing for? That I can understand. It's because people who aren't parents just aren't interested in speaking about kids?
That's just life. I can guarantee your friends will engage and tolerate subjects you find interesting while it does nothing for them. Friendships aren't one sided.

Yeah that sucks. Not sure there is much you can do tho 😢

maybe we need more men to do that instead of putting the pressure on women yet again to feel guilty.

I'd say that we need more people to build better defended to being guilted into doing things.

Quite apart from anything else, if anyone puts pressure on me to do anything which I don't want to do anyway, I feel no.guilt.at.all in not allowing them to bend me to their will.

It makes a lot of things more simple. I completely recommend it. Among the many benefits are that it requires only response from the person involved. It doesn't require other people or whole groups of people to change

'I feel no.guilt.at.all in not allowing them to bend me to their will.
It makes a lot of things more simple. I completely recommend it. '

Love this. I hear you. It gets easier, less scary and more automatic with practice

There's a balance - but I honestly just feel it should be a brief discussion about how the baby is and that's it. Anything more and I'm out.

I wouldn’t call that balance. Dumping your friends for them going over your made-up, allotted time on one subject is pretty uncompromising. Real friendship needs a bit of give and take.

@doesnotrellymatter

I am childree by choice, 35 years old. For some time I mourned the friendship I had with my best friend at the time who I have known for 25 years. The friendship is on hold since the first baby.

I think a central part is what your friendships are based on. I learned that what I value most is doing things I enjoy - together. I just do not enjoy contact with small children and even less talking about them. To many other people it is more important to talk about their issues or whatever.

So the solution for me: find people to do stuff with. I deepened my involvement in an existing hobby of mine and now I am very passionate about it. And along the way I found people who are passionate about it as well. They are between 15 and 65 years old. Somehow none of them are around 35 years old.

I think this is a key point, up to our 20s and often well into our 30s our friends tend to be very much our contemporaries. That can be confining in its way as we are all expected to hit the milestoned at the same time and it cam be very lonely if you are the odd one out. I do think that that dynamic loosens out considerably as you get older, or at least I have found it so. At 47 I have friends from early 30s up to late 60s and my friendships now are very much about connection, about really clicking with someone rather than because we happened to have gone to school or college together or be roughly the same age

I know what you mean OP. Three of my close friends have had babies this year and while I (childless) love seeing them and their babies, it does sometimes feel like that are more interested in seeing/speaking to each other now.

I think it mainly comes, to be honest, from them thinking myself and our other childfree friends wouldn't be interested in the baby chat but actually we'd much rather be included and are happy to spend time with them and their babies.

I think I understand OP. I’m not particularly interested in kids, but at some point I did want to have one. He came along when I was 35 and I love him dearly. I don’t feel the need to talk about him all the time and when I meet up with child free friends he’s certainly not the main topic of conversation. I speak about him to the extent that I might mention something significant or I’ll answer questions they ask.

I actually dislike it when I meet with friends who all have kids and that’s all that everyone talks about. It’s probably worse because my DS has ASD, so we don’t really hang out with other children and parents very much. So even though I have a DC, I can’t relate to much of the associated chat and I’m not that interested in it either. It feels very much the same as pre DC.

From 28-33 I lived in a couple of countries as a trailing spouse. Most of the expat activities and groups for people of my age were centred around children’s stuff. I had to look for other things to do and for other ways to meet people. I wouldn’t have been excluded from those groups, but I wasn’t really comfortable centring my social live and friendships around them. I ended up making great friends of all ages doing a bunch of interesting stuff.

I do think your people are out there!

Small children take so much time and energy and are such a massive part of daily life so I think it’s inevitable people will always bring them up if speaking about anything current in their day to day life. Babysitters are expensive people can’t always leave children. It’s not ideal for adult company but your friends would probably appreciate you not giving up on them because the dynamic has changed for a few years. Whether it’s self absorbed or not it’s necessary for that to be the priority for them to be decent parents. I don’t have many friends who actively dislike being with children but I have been unable to meet up for some things with one person who was coming to terms with their own childlessness and I got that but still can’t get away. I’m happy for people to come round when the kids to be in bed etc. if you actively disliked my children I think that you’d need to hide it well or I’d not want to maintain a friendship anyway.

I'm just not interested in other peoples children that much and the point I'm making is that as a female that is deemed as unacceptable when you are part of a friendship group that all have kids.

Respectfully OP, unless you find a group of friends who 100% will never children, this is an issue you will always come across. Children aren't just some "added extras" to peoples lives, they become their parents' life. I have always seen my friends' children as an extension of them, not just "something we may or may not talk about". I feel you are viewing it all wrong and at the end of the day, it sounds like you aren't interested in your friends' life now that they have children and that's got nothing to with them, but you. Sorry for sounding a bit harsh, I honestly don't mean to offend you, that's just how I see it. And I've been where you are, I was the last of my friends to have children, and not through choice.

Respectfully OP, unless you find a group of friends who 100% will never children, this is an issue you will always come across. Children aren't just some "added extras" to peoples lives, they become their parents' life. I have always seen my friends' children as an extension of them, not just "something we may or may not talk about". I feel you are viewing it all wrong and at the end of the day, it sounds like you aren't interested in your friends' life now that they have children and that's got nothing to with them, but you. Sorry for sounding a bit harsh, I honestly don't mean to offend you, that's just how I see it. And I've been where you are, I was the last of my friends to have children, and not through choice

Agree with this. I was the first of my friends to have children. And the isolation I felt because no one really understood what motherhood involved sent me into total self isolation. I then learnt to make new friends but I really really missed my friendships and I cut myself into peices trying to “maintain my previous fun personality”.

When they all had children few years later , they seemed to all finally get it. And no one complained about bringing their child anywhere.

But by that point I had made new friends who actually have been in my children’s lives from the start instead of sneering at my new lifestyle

@MintLampShade

I'm just not interested in other peoples children that much and the point I'm making is that as a female that is deemed as unacceptable when you are part of a friendship group that all have kids.

Respectfully OP, unless you find a group of friends who 100% will never children, this is an issue you will always come across. Children aren't just some "added extras" to peoples lives, they become their parents' life. I have always seen my friends' children as an extension of them, not just "something we may or may not talk about". I feel you are viewing it all wrong and at the end of the day, it sounds like you aren't interested in your friends' life now that they have children and that's got nothing to with them, but you. Sorry for sounding a bit harsh, I honestly don't mean to offend you, that's just how I see it. And I've been where you are, I was the last of my friends to have children, and not through choice.

This is right. A child isn't a hobby or a fad. The child is a family member who you love and care deeply about. A living, breathing human. If any of my friends had that mentality they wouldn't be a friends for very long. I would never be like that towards anyone else's family member. "How dare they mention their brother. I'm not interested in brothers" 🙄 It isn't always an easy road to become a mum, so many have had heartache and stress along the way. It would be selfish to always have everything on your terms. Meet, but only if there's no child. Speak but do not speak of the child. Moan that you've had no sleep for 3 nights, but only if it's not child related.

I disagree with lots of the replies here. Some of my friends (parents or not) will ask all about my child, some have zero interest. Either is fine.

Maybe it's different if you're a SAHP because then talking about your kids is talking about two major life subjects; family and work but even so please remember to ask about your friends life and actually be interested even if you can't currently relate.

@Sillysandy

I get what you are saying and maybe everyone has a friend or two who aren't actually that interested in their friends children. But talking about children per say will also be talking about the parents life, that's what I am trying to say. A new mum struggling, a new mum having an amazing time, new family dynamics etc may not personally have anything to do with children but the parents' life. And if as a friend, you aren't interested, well then that says a lot about the friendship (and the person) to be honest.

When my friend called me overjoyed that her daughter was potty trained, I cheered with her for her achievement and her sense of pride, and not for her daughter per say. Also, when another friend called me crying as her son had horrible separation anxiety, I felt her pain because I cared about her and that doesn't necessarily have anything to with the child. Does that make sense? I'd hate to think I can't share things like this with my friends for the fear of being labelled a SAHP who has nothing else to talk about....

Equally, my friends who have no children can call me any time to talk about their issues and I'll listen, offer support etc..but call me naive, they seem to kind of understand and accept that there may be a toddler screaming in the background whilst Mummy is on the phone, or that I may not always be in the position to leave my son at home if we are meeting.

As I said unless you find a group of friends who are child free for life, you have to revisit your expectations for your friends with children. And if you are a good friend, you'll have no trouble. You can mourn the old friendship, I'm sure most people do, I know I did, but you'll find plenty of joy in the new life too.