To feel sad when you are the only childless person...

[Namechangeme1]

Just that really. I never thought this would be me but I feel really sad that life is different.

That not having children would make you feel so alien to 95% or other people.

DH says find new friends. I find this impossible - I'm outgoing and confident but whenever starting new relationships they seem to be flaky and then fizzle out or feel like a one way street.

It's a really sad situation and feel it burdens females most - has anyone else had this happen to them? Any advice?

I just feel like my youth is almost over and unless I also become a parent I'll be an outsider forever amongst most friendship groups.

It's just not the same - people change after children. It's not for better or for worse but it's just difficult to maintain solid friendships after.

@JewelGarden I can’t speak for everyone but no, I wouldn’t rather see my friends with their kids than not at all. I honestly don’t think some parents get how not everyone is enchanted by their DC and could think of nothing better than to spend a day with them. I don’t think my OWN parents had this view of me and DB!

A few year ago, I met a friend for lunch in a sort of bistro place. She brought her eldest who was about 5 at that point. Before our drinks had been served, she had the iPad with Peppa on (thankfully with headphones) and said “I knew she wouldn’t sit still for this long.” So WHY THE FUCK BRING HER? Her DH was at home, he is a nice man, perfectly capable of having both kids on his own. We couldn’t have a proper chat as we were getting interrupted every few minutes and IME this is always the case.

@Lalliebelle

Children are just one thing that happens to people in their life. When I meet up with friends, we talk about what's going on in our lives. That may or may not include their children.

Why would I want to talk about nappies for a baby everyone knows I will never have?

Why would I want to talk about skydiving when it's something I will never do? Perhaps because my friend just took it up as a hobby, and I love my friend and have an interest in her life.

I have nothing to add when my friends talk about shit they watch on TV that I haven't seen. So I just don't add anything and wait until the conversation moves onto something I can add to. That's just the nature of socialising!

I think part of the problem with your solution (from experience) is that when some parents get started chatting about their kids it never moves onto anything else. I've a family member that's awful for this, shortly after I had a miscarriage she literally had nothing to say to me that wasn't to do with babies or children. So what does she do? Rattles off a list of friends of hers that are pregnant It's like having children has pushed all other information out of her brain.

Remember mums don't only speak about that stuff. The only times I've ever discussed baby things is if I or anyone has been looking for advice.
Conversations are as normal as they've ever been. We don't automatically become one dimensional and only capable to speak about something baby related.
I never ask anyone about children because I don't know their situation, even someone who has a child you don't always know the road they've had to take to get there, if a friend knows about fertility struggles they should avoid the topic of pregnancy unless you've brought it up. Most people I know think that way and would be conscientious. They can't be expected to completely ignore the topic of their child, they exist. Especially when it gets tough. It's not all sunshine and roses and parents need an outlet.

They can't be dropped with the click of a finger. Parents need to be there for their kids as much as they can. I never knew if it was going to happen for me, but I still did the morning walks with my friends & their babies because it was a lot easier for me to work around them than the other way around and it's important to maintain good friendships.

If it's detrimental to your mental health to be around anyone who could potentially discuss their children then you should avoid it or perhaps let them know how you're feeling prior so they're mindful. A true friend will understand.

Thing is conversation across an evening occasionally including references to children, child related things etc, that's natural, but when the whole group of people you are with spends the entire time talking about things that relate to their children when you don't have any, it's frankly quite rude, exclusionary, and bloody boring, and makes you wonder why you even bothered. And maybe that's the point, maybe you shouldn't bother if your friends can't see that they are excluding you with all their child related chat.

Say there were a group of longstanding friends, all but one who had really got into cycling, and the other one would love to cycle but has a physical problem that prevents her doing it, or tried it once but decided it's not for her. And they go out for an evening, and everyone talked about cycling, and tyres, and cycling kit, and the cycling holidays they had been on, and were about to go on, and absolutely nothing else all night - it would be pretty shit for her and eventually she would no doubt drift away from the friendship group as she felt excluded, and that no-one cared or noticed that all the cycling talk wasn't relevant to her. It would be different if she'd turned up to an official cycling related evening (or parenting group!) as you'd then expect the conversation to centre around that, but just general time spent with friends should involve subjects of discussion that everyone can join in with and are interested in, if your friends care about you they will ensure that happens. Unfortunately I've found that once some people have children, the blinkers go on and that's literally all they are interested in.

I know how you feel, OP. I don’t regret for one second my decision not to have children, but I wish it hadn’t left me so isolated from my old friends. And I’m afraid my experience is that it doesn’t get better as the kids grow up- it gets worse. Toddlers are shouty and tantrummy and demanding, but beware the older child who is “a real friend” to its mum and has to accompany and join in on every outing... and even if they aren’t there, the mum doesn’t have anything else to talk about. I’m afraid ultimately the only thing you can do is find new friends who don’t have kids.

'I know what you mean though, Namechange, you feel like you don't belong to a club in a way.'

Relate to this so much. I think parents don't realise how much they talk about their children. I work in a team of mostly women who are mothers and it is ENDLESS. I understand that your children are the centre of your life, and I know they don't mean anything by it, but it's hard. It can be painful, it can be dull, and I have nothing to contribute to the conversation. It can feel very lonely and excluding, even if it's not intended that way

Re friendships, there's this idea that everyone accepts everyone else's life decisions and that childless / childfree women make allowances for friends when they become parents, and all continues seamlessly, but that's just not my experience. People do change when they have children, and their lives change massively. My relationship with my best friend ended a few years ago, in part because she has children. It's complex stuff

unless I also become a parent I'll be an outsider forever amongst most friendship groups.

This has not been my experience at all. I'm my friendship circles, having children was the exception rather than the rule. People who had children just naturally dropped out of the orbit for a good many years. I thought it was inevitable when they don't have time to spare.

I'd agree that genuinely looking for new interests in areas which are not compatible with having children is the way forward.

I would feel very, very sorry for anyone whose life was wasted yearning for something they don't have. Do enjoy your time on earth, relish your health and opportunity to pursue interests.

Maybe my group is different. They had kids over a decade before me. We still went out for meals, for drinks. Children didn't come up. Too busy having a laugh and probably behaving like children ourselves.

I think that a lot of friendships are driven by shared experiences, so things are often more strained as your lives diverge.

In truth my closest and easiest friendships are people who have similar family set ups. I was in the situation of having dc when none of my friends did, and although I maintain my old friendships I have definitely got closer to the new parent friends I made.

So I'd say you can both maintain the old friendships (albeit maybe with less regular contact) and make new friends too.

It depends on the age group and the social circles you move around in. In most of the workplaces where I've worked women had children bar the one workplace where two women were childless (I'm not sure whether it was through choice or not), friends from the past had children (eventually). Of course my experiences are anecdotal only.

I've kept my friendships since becoming a mother, some of my friends have children, some don't either through choice or because they're unable to. I guess it depends how important your friendships are personally to you. Is it more important that they don't have children than maintaining friendships?

Thing is conversation across an evening occasionally including references to children, child related things etc, that's natural, but when the whole group of people you are with spends the entire time talking about things that relate to their children when you don't have any, it's frankly quite rude, exclusionary, and bloody boring, and makes you wonder why you even bothered.

This. Went to a party where DH and I were the only non parents present. It was the time of year that public exam results come out.
Everyone else spent virtually the whole evening talking about GCSE/A level results, university offers etc.

It's also like - a pregnancy and a baby becomes the feature of EVERYTHING, you can no longer meet that person without some discussion about how the pregnancy/baby is.

Even if I was pregnant (which I have been) - I didn't want people asking me every time and if I could have chosen would have kept it secret to save the fuss. As much as I was happy as those times I didn't want to always discuss it - it's just Unnecessary IMO.

Someone earlier mentioned I'm not child person - there's more than one way to be a parent and it doesn't mean openly gushing all the time. Men don't do it / once again it's that societal pressure women must be these maternal outwardly doting people.

But guess that's for another thread!

Genuinely curious question.

What does your friendship topics mostly centred around ? Does career and work come into it?

I used to feel like when my childfree friends talk about work I need to talk about my motherhood because in my mind that’s my contribution to society and is the equivalent to her work topics

Also OP I think unless someone goes out of their way to show appreciative understanding to a new mother about how her new intensive demanding role puts understandable strain on her relationships UNTIL she gets the balance right, I think it would grate on her self esteem and confidence everytime her child spoils her hobbies and commitment to them

I think i value my friendship with childfree friends

But I did feel they were constantly shaming me and judging me for not being the same friend I used to be

And it really did make me feel even more anxious about the changes in my life that I had accepted are part of being a responsible parent

Yes true we need to find a balance but with motherhood it’s a tricky balance and such a massive change in a short time and so it takes us time to find our feet and feeling judged until we do doesn’t make that happen any sooner

I think it depends on your reasons for not having children too - if infertility, relationship issues etc are part of the reason that's going to add a level of difficulty into the relationship on its own.

Personally I am childfree by choice, I like my friends' kids and am happy to engage with them/talk about them - also happy to do non child focused activities if that's what they want to do because sometimes a parent wants a break! I'd hate for that to be my life but happy for parenting/child related topics to be the focus of the conversation - I just see it as a phase of life that my friends are going through.

I do find that some friends are less connected but it's probably because parenting is hard and time consuming rather than saying anything about the quality of the relationship.

Friendships change naturally when DC come. It may appear to be self absorbed however it is more so the DC have sucked any previous selfish time away from the parents whenever free time is on offer I spend it in the bath or bed.
I'm sorry you feel left out.

@EmeraldShamrock
Selfish times 🙄

Christ love, get a dog! I'm 45 & had a hysterectomy at 38 due to medical issues. I have no kids & I enjoy it! I have 3 dogs instead who are not half as much trouble as some children (although there are days when I feel I have 3 toddlers to deal with)!
Being a mum isn't the end all, be all!

Hysterectomy is a bit far
I was sterilised at 30 and have 3 cats!
(And an adult daughter)
The fecking cats drive me mad.

Those posts to purple were awful.

Ah, @Duchess379 I have a DDog and yes, he’s like a toddler at times. However, the OP and numerous others (like me) are talking about how our friends aren’t the same/leave us out/exclude us. Just basically aren’t interested in talking/doing anything unless it revolves around their DC. A dog is lovely, but he can’t talk back...although maybe that’s a bonus at times

I was unwillingly childfree for several years before I managed to have my kids, so I get what you mean in feeling excluded from The Club. In our society it's like there's an 'adult' world and there's a 'family' world and never the two shall meet. It's such a shame, but it's possible to push past it and have great friendships across the divide.

I now have two young kids while most of my close friends are child-free. Staying close with them is tonnes easier when they are willing to hang out with my kids and also hear me moan about parenthood a lot. It's actually fantastic hanging out with child-free friends as my kids love them and I get to talk about stuff outside the parenthood bubble at least some of the time - it's only awkward if the friend expects the kids not to act like kids (ie be a pain in the arse 😂). But of course I do end up talking about my kids and parenthood a lot, but my best friend just sees it as another aspect of life to talk about, just as he talks about his work woes which aren't directly relevant to me.

So I feel your pain, but maybe try not to feel pushed out by your child-free status - remember that your friends with kids would probably love to see you but you may have to come to where they're at.

'In our society it's like there's an 'adult' world and there's a 'family' world and never the two shall meet.'

That's because in this country apparently we should all hide our children away, never talk about them, and basically pretend we never had them according to some people on this thread.

I think around 20% of uk women are now child free at age 40 so although a minority of women it's a substantial number and I think it's still on the upward trend.

Of course it’s annoying if people only want to talk about their children and nothing else, I’m a Mum and it would drive me mad if any of my friends did this. Maybe you just have dull friends cause I don’t find that any of the other parents I know only talk about their children.

But you seem to expect your friends to never talk about their kids, to never have them around you, and to just basically pretend that they aren’t parents, which is just pretty unrealistic IMO. I would quite quickly ditch any friends who treated me like that after having kids.