If you voted for BJ, how are you feeling now, when even the man who masterminded his entire campaign is telling you BJ was never fit to be PM?

[mintice]

I’m interested to hear - if you voted for “Sovereignty,” or to “Take Back Control” or whatever, how does it now feel to discover that even the mastermind of the Brexit campaign had no confidence in the man he persuaded you to believe in and vote for?

Do you feel played? Which side will you be taking now - Team BJ? Or team DC?

@jasjas1973

Actually we are 7th behind France, which, if we ignore turkey still proves you have got your knowledge from headlines and twitter, I think it is time for you to go back to your Labour/Momentum facebook group and get better stats

Not according to Worldometers, which was the link posted by Tangled above, who seems to support Bojo.

Worldometers is a responsible source of CV information, if you try them, you can click on each header and look at the different methods of counting deaths, infections etc.

Exactly, we are 17th in deaths per million.

An even better source is the Economist Excess Death monitor, where we sit at 25.

I don't think anyone would say we are a shining world example, but in the final analysis, and in many ways, we are more or less the same as every other country in Western Europe, and not the worst. As you say statistics don't lie, and we have plenty of statistics.

I also think as other countries open up, especially those who have been locked down for a long time, with little natural immunity, and few vaccinations, will potentially be in trouble going forward. Covid is global, new variants will continue to circulate, and countries cannot stay closed forever.

@Chloemol

I hardly think Cummings is telling the truth, he’s a manipulator and manipulating people like you op to believe what he wants you to

You are falling for it

I don’t trust Cummings any more than I did when he lied about the benefits of Brexit, lied about Johnson being the right person for PM and lied about his flagrant breach of lockdown rules.

I think his testimony to the select committee was self-serving and put himself in the role of victim which is patently not borne out.

BUT..what he said about the Gov’s handling of the pandemic in the early days is backed up by evidence. We all know Johnson missed 5 cobra meetings. We know they were considering herd immunity. Hancock told Robert Peston in April last year that every person involved with social care who needed testing would be tested. Last week he told the select committee that there weren’t enough tests available at that time, so when Cummings told the committee that Hancock lied, it is demonstrably true.

Also, note the lack of denial from No 10. They’ve put their energy into dead catting this story by Johnson getting married. If what Cummings said was untrue, they would have issued stark denials. They haven’t.

I'm confused as to what you are asking op. Is it about BJ or Brexit?

I voted to remain (I dithered until just before the vote} and husband voted to leave. No hard feelings.

I voted for BJ in the last election because I thought JC and hid momentum team would be far worse for this country and I still feel this way. I had to hold my nose when I voted for BJ, but I feel strongly that our right to vote is hard won and I couldn't not vote.

Not every person who voted for BJ was pro leaving the EU, although recent events have made me reasonably content with the Brexit vote.

Oh and Cummings is a slimeball and wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

It's not his call though. He takes advice from the scientists. Nervtag and JCVI etc. The scientists were aware, but the varient was firstly only under investigation, and then later on the watch list, then later still a varient of concern. The moment it went on to the list of concern the government introduced restrictions. You can't have it both ways. Either you listen to your scientists or you don't

Well, according to Cummings, BJ did ignore the scientists, DC says even Hancock wanted a LD in September, BJ over ruled Whitty and Valence.

So considering the UK put Pakistan on the red list before India, despite more positive tests, it would appear DC is telling the truth.

The problem is that tory supporters can't believe him because it makes their vote look stupid and it brings into question whether Brexit campaign was truthful.....

I don't doubt that DC is minimising his part in decision making and painting BJ/MH as a pair of idiots but either BJ's judgement so bad that he employed a sick twisted individual (as did Gove and Vote Leave) or it is not.

Not every person who voted for BJ was pro leaving the EU, although recent events have made me reasonably content with the Brexit vote

True but Brexit will be with us forever, covid and vaccinations will soon be in the distant past.
But sure EU have not covered themselves in glory over their vaccines procurement.

Oh and Cummings is a slimeball and wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him

..but your husband did!

Cummings was at the centre of government policy and direction but got fired because he became a liability. He now has this, " I made him , I can break him" mentality and despite spending a good week briefing the press and boring the shit out of everybody for 7 hours they only outcome has been to make him look even more dodgy than he already was and leaving himself virtually unemployable.

Boris will win the next election and probably increase his majority. All anybody will remember Cummings for is Barnard Castle and dressing like a tramp, with a strong smell of bovine scatology.

JasJas,
Worldometer gives deaths per 100,000. We are way down the European list.

I have no problem with the evictions

I voted for Boris when he stood a leader of the Conservative Party.
And we can return economic migrants to their country of origin.

Worldometer gives deaths per 100,000. We are way down the European list

Not with comparable countries

I have no problem with the evictions

What about Children? & more homeless, maybe your answer is the workhouse?

And we can return economic migrants to their country of origin

How? destroyed papers or none, EU countries wont have them back and some countries have no flights as they are too dangerous to fly into.

@Pyewackect

Cummings was at the centre of government policy and direction but got fired because he became a liability. He now has this, " I made him , I can break him" mentality and despite spending a good week briefing the press and boring the shit out of everybody for 7 hours they only outcome has been to make him look even more dodgy than he already was and leaving himself virtually unemployable.

Boris will win the next election and probably increase his majority. All anybody will remember Cummings for is Barnard Castle and dressing like a tramp, with a strong smell of bovine scatology.

Yes i think you are correct.

I'm certainly no fan of Borris of his government so far... but concentrating on deaths alone is foolish. Look again at us & nearby neighbours of size with the numbers when you add Covid tests too:

Deaths per thousand people Tests per person
Italy 2.089 1.095
Poland 1.950 0.422
UK 1.873 2.660
France 1.675 1.303
Spain 1.426 1.062
Germany1.061 0.718

Yeah, the UK has tested twice as much as the net country France... surprisingly it has found a large number of Covid deaths. Germany & Poland haven't tested every person at least once.

Excessive deaths is a far better metric as mentioned earlier.

Urgh formatting was destroyed by the forum - can see for yourself on the worldometer page if that is unreadable.

Given the only other real option was Corbyn and the horror that is momentum then yes, I’m pleased I voted BJ. I am not a Tory and look forward to the day Keir steps up but it’s not yet so Boris is it.

@Nataliafalka

Given the only other real option was Corbyn and the horror that is momentum then yes, I’m pleased I voted BJ. I am not a Tory and look forward to the day Keir steps up but it’s not yet so Boris is it.

I get why people would prefer Johnson over Corbyn but opinion polls put Johnson much further ahead over Starmer than they ever did Corbyn, so one presumes had Starmer been leading labour in 2019, the tories would have won an even bigger majority.

the cry i heard in 2019 was anyone but corbyn and we'd all vote labour... of course you would!

the press seem to have gone for the ignore starmer plan, which is working very well.

Brexit hasn't been the explosive event the remoaners feared, all in all it's been fairly smooth despite covid. I think being freed from the shackles of the EU has already been and will continue to be beneficial for us. Cummings obviously got shat on big time snd is out for revenge. He appears slightly unhinged so it's far better he's out of the way, however, I feel boris is far more centrist than I would like, time to get the country open and back on its feet.

Another poster who thinks remoaners is witty.

Pathetic and juvenile.

"Brexit hasn't been the explosive event the remoaners feared, all in all it's been fairly smooth despite covid."

Fishermen, farmers, financial services, Ireland, imports and exports, small businesses etc.

@iminthegarden

Brexit hasn't been the explosive event the remoaners feared, all in all it's been fairly smooth despite covid. I think being freed from the shackles of the EU has already been and will continue to be beneficial for us. Cummings obviously got shat on big time snd is out for revenge. He appears slightly unhinged so it's far better he's out of the way, however, I feel boris is far more centrist than I would like, time to get the country open and back on its feet.

Johnson is very far to the right, so no need to worry.

If Cummings is a snake who can never be believed, then considering he was the mastermind behind Johnsons Brexit campaign [...]

You all believed him then.

This weird assumption that people who voted brexit had been duped

Many did it because they genuinely thought they had nothing to lose. They feel abandoned by the left. The party of working people is too busy trying to get men on all women shortlists to deal with the likes of us and our petty desire for a better life.

I voted for Brexit because I wanted us to leave the EU.
I wasn't duped nor did I vote for it because I had nothing to lose.
I voted because I agree with it.
And I agree Boris is a bit too centrist.

I just don't care about DC, what he says, or what he thinks. Dishonest, deceitful, arrogant, disloyal. Horrible man.

Johnson is very far to the right, so no need to worry

Johnson is a liberal centrist. We currently have the most socialist Tory party for a century!

how does it now feel to discover that even the mastermind of the Brexit campaign had no confidence in the man he persuaded you to believe in and vote for?

Cummings also said (in different words) that it was a choice between shit and shitter. The shitter being Corbyn.

The attitude towards Brexit from Remain supporting Conservative MPs is why Boris ended up as PM.

And then Labour's choice of Corbyn, his aggressive momentum supporters and their Remain stance (momentum, not Corbyn who is a Brexiter) plus the long unsavoury shadow of Tony Blair is why Boris won the general election.

@jasjas1973

Worldometer gives deaths per 100,000. We are way down the European list

Not with comparable countries

I have no problem with the evictions

What about Children? & more homeless, maybe your answer is the workhouse?

And we can return economic migrants to their country of origin

How? destroyed papers or none, EU countries wont have them back and some countries have no flights as they are too dangerous to fly into.

jasjas - You make my laugh. You are really reaching now. Which countries, European or otherwise, are you now comparing us with?

Evictions are complex. I know several landlords who only own one property, and are now having to sell up (and evict their tenants), as they can no longer support the mortgage without the income. It's a vicious circle.

A large number of people didn't vote for. They voted against.