People who have nannies and cooks around the clock etc

[claramonica]

I know this is unreasonable and none of my business and also not my place to make a judgement on.

But people who have nannies from basically day one and cleaners- do they really know what parenthood ( especially baby stage ) is actually like for people who don't have that ?

Why does it matter if they love their kid and their kids feel loved by their parents?

I currently have a night nanny and yes, it’s bliss. However, I am 44, the doctors thought I would never have another child due to serious health issues and I run my own business (tho on maternity leave at the moment).

So hate me, judge my choices or whatever. Cos it really matters not. Unlike you, I still have the night nanny.

I had a full time nanny and housekeeper when my children were small - we lived abroad so very much the norm there. Many people had more than one nanny, or one during the week, one at the weekend. Common to have a driver too.

My husband and I both worked full time and it was amazing to have someone as a constant in our children's lives and who we could rely on to look after the children, take to school, activities, host after school play dates, and if needed babysit so we could go out in the evening for work or pleasure.

It was massively convenient but I wouldn't say it meant I didn't know what parenting was like - I still spent evenings, nights, early mornings, weekends, long plane journeys and holidays with my children. And did school meetings, medical appointments, sports day, school plays and the rest. No real difference to working with a child in nursery really - except that my house was immaculate and there was no panic to pick up children at fixed times or find a babysitter at short notice.

Now we are back in the UK and use school plus childminder plus cleaner. This doesn't offer quite the same level of flexibility but unless someone wants to argue that by working I'm not parenting, there's little difference between our present set up (which I don't think is particularly unusual) and having full time help.

That said, where we were abroad there were lots of families who had so much help from nannies/housekeepers that I'm sure some really didn't know what to do with their children - it was quite common to see the nanny trailing behind Mum and the baby being passed off to the nanny as soon as they cried or needed a nappy change or it always being the nanny who was at the school play or sports day or weekend birthday parties instead of the parent.

Oh yes, money can buy you a clean house, no cooking or bath time, supervised homework and ironed uniforms.
This is not parenthood though, isn’t it? The love and the worry that only a parent can feel doesn’t go away. If they have reflux, if they are bullied, if they have SN, if they have a severe allergy, if they are behind at school... This is parenthood, along with the goodnight stories and kisses, their hand in yours and their drawings. A nanny supervising bath time or a cleaner vacuuming is not parenthood.

@LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee
Righto love!!!

No, but then nobody fully understands other people's lives.

I'm no way rich enough for nannies, but I can afford food and even treats. I don't know what it's like to bring children up on the breadline.

People who have local family who do a lot of childcare don't know what it's like to have all your family live abroad.

And a million other variations on bringing up children

Why do they need to know?

I had a cleaner before I had a baby. I don't think there's anything unique about cleaning up after children that has anything to do with parenthood - I was crap at cleaning before, I'm crap at cleaning now. I certainly don't hoover three times a day because she's dropped crumbs. I have a cleaner once a week, but if I could afford a full-time housekeeper I would, and it would make me a better parent.

I imagine 24 hour nannies are vanishingly rare. Again I had a baby with horrific reflux, we sought medical attention because at one point she was sleeping less than 6 hours in 24, never longer than 90 minutes. I have literally forgotten chunks of that first year I was so sleep deprived. Again a night nanny would have made me better.

I used to nanny for a woman who often said how hard motherhood was. I used to think hmm, it would be a hell of a lot harder without your full time nanny, cleaner, personal trainer and masseuse
To be fair to her, she was a great mum and the children adored her. I just used to find it frustrating sometimes that she seemed to think her situation was the norm and not realise that she was hugely privileged.

Perhaps they have the stress of paying those people or the guilt that someone else had to comfort their baby. Perhaps they aren’t thin enough. IME everyone has problems and stresses and money doesn’t solve it all. Not many people are living a problem free existence. It’s best not to compare or envy.

I have family in Asia who brought up children with full time live in staff. They just can’t relate to how we live at all here with no staff (not even a weekly cleaner). Neither life is better or worse, just different.

I have a full time nanny, and that alone makes me an absentee parent in the eyes of much of MN.

However - I am also a single mum, with an uninvolved ex and my parents living overseas. I know that I would be a much better mum if I could keep our wonderful nanny, have a cook and cleaner a day or two a week and quit the full time job, because then I'd be rested, be able to have 1-1 time with the children, really invest time in the extra support needed for my autistic dc2, and be more likely to stay around for them longer by exercising and eating nutritiously, as I have a life-shortening health condition that I can't manage as well as I should. As well as a mum, I'm a granddaughter, daughter and sister but I don't show my family enough care either, time would let me do that.

However there are plenty of women who can do all of the above anyway, because they have hands-on husbands, or family living close by, or don't have multiple children with SEN. I'm a bit envious, yes. But they are still experiencing parenting, there's no gold star for having it rougher than anyone else.

I was thinking that friends with involved GPs get an easier ride (childcare on tap, meals made in newborn stage, clothes bought for DC etc).

I guess that doesn’t make them less of a parent, just able to access more help.

Maybe they don’t

But equally those with good sleepers, or with grandparents who have the baby overnight from a young age, will never know true sleep deprivation

Those in a couple will never know the sheer relentlessness of being a single parent

Those with NT kids will not have a clue what it’s like to have kids with SN

No one whose kids have grown up in the UK knows what it’s like to raise kids as refugees or in a war zone

Etc etc

There is always someone better or worse off

Would you say people only know true parenthood if they’ve always had the toughest experience?

What level of help or ease makes you no longer a true parent?

They don't because they remove that experience from their lives. My first job was in a lovely nursery open 7am to 7pm. These babies and toddlers had nanny's drop them off in the morning and pick them up in the evening, had older kids to get school sometimes. Never saw parents. Some even moaned at receiving a weekly email newsletter showing what the kids had been upto. You can definitely end up very detached from your own children this way. I found it incredibly sad.

@Drunkenmonkey

I'm surprised how many people say 'lucky them' or something to that effect. If I had all the money in the world I wouldn't have a nanny. I would probably pay someone to cook and clean, but absolutely no way would I be outsourcing brushing their teeth, putting them to bed or buying their uniform. I want to know my kids otherwise I wouldn't have had them! In terms of a newborn, yes those nights are damn hard but I wouldn't let someone else snuggle them and bond with them and miss out on what is such a fleeting period of time in their lives. It would be a completely different experience of parenting and I really don't think I would enjoy it so much if I played some kind of back seat role.

Sorry but I'm sure many parents who are currently sleep deprived with a hysterical colicky baby don't feel oh what a wonderful bonding experience. I'm sure many would appreciate the help if they could afford it. Just because you would never hire a nanny if you had the money, doesn't mean that people who use nannies don't know their own kids and haven't bonded with them. And to be honest brushing teeth and buying school uniform are not the bits of parenting most people look back on with fond memories, it's pretty miscellaneous stuff imo.

They are still mum (or dad), I wouldn't assume someone with a full time nanny takes a backseat role.

I spent a couple of years with full time staff somewhere where it was normal.

It took a while to adjust then one holiday I found myself thinking that I was having to hang up clothes and this wasn't a holiday at all, I wondered if you could bring staff on holiday with you.
I knew then I had adjusted.

But even then I did lots of parenting I just didn't do the boring household drudgery, I swear it made me a more relaxed mother.

Of course people who have this from when their dc are tiny don't know what the alternatives are like, but those with family to help don't either or those whose dc don't have SN or health issues or any number of other variables.

You only know your reality and can try and imagine other realities.

Before having a nanny, I was bloody tired all the time from doing all the shitty bits as a parent. Since having a nanny, I don't get to do all the shitty bits and I have time to do my own thing and also spend quality time with my toddler where I never had the energy to do that as I was busy wiping, cleaning, feeding, entertaining, cleaning, wiping, feeding, putting baby to sleep as well as doing the house chores and taking baby out for a fresh air. Now I get to play, cuddle and take my son out and spend quality time with him as well as have time for myself which has improved my MH. Happy mum means happy family :)

@GordonsAliveAndEatsPies Congratulations.

Anything that makes life more pleasant is a good thing. dreams of winning the lottery

I knew a woman years ago who rarely spent time with her children without a nanny being present. The few times they weren't, the children ran riot. I still remember her shouting to them telling them to stop what they were doing, as the children totally ignored her and did what they wanted.
Anything worth doing, you have to put the time in. Of course the children still love their parents. Virtually all children love their parents in spite of what they are like. But being close and having a meaningful relationship takes time.

I find it very odd that so many people on the thread think that mothers who employ nannies and cooks have so much spare time to be free and their best selves etc etc.
In my experience, most of the families that can afford that kind of support are families where both parents work very long and exhausting hours. These are not stay at home parents who also have the luxury of 24/7 support on top.

But being close and having a meaningful relationship takes time.
Yes you'd have more time, do you think dashing home with DC in the car from crèche to cook and clean gives you a more meaningful time? Or coming home to a clean house, settled DC with homework completed to kick off the shoes and kiss them.

@EmeraldShamrock I am not talking about cleaners but nannies. Spending time with children is doing everyday things such as being in the car, not just being a Disney parent. It is like the equivalent of dating someone and living with them. The latter is more meaningful.

Hmm, by this rating SAHM have more meaningful relationships with their dc than working parents.
Despite having had a long maternity break, worked part time and gone on several secondments I don't actually think I have a more meaningful relationship with my dc than other family members who have done none of these things with their dc, including my DH.