Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think my Uncle was taking revenge

216 replies

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 09:58

My grandparents were life-long private renters. They never got onto the property ladder for various reasons, and there was not the stigma against renters that there is now. I grew up with them, and in that rented property - leaving when I got my career underway.

There may not have been stigma in the same way (or I was oblivious to it) but there was still insecurity...... The house was owned by an elderly lady and it happened that she (or her children) wanted to sell it. My DGPs were late 70s.

My father and my uncle are both wealthy men. My father at that time lived in I think France, my uncle quite nearby to DGPs. However, I was not informed about the situation, which happened the same year as my daughter was born. My father would never have helped them, that's a given.

My uncle took money out of his investments and purchased the house (which was a character property but unmodernised) outright. I am not sure of the terms that they arranged between them at the outset.

After four years my grandfather died quite suddenly, although he was a good age. My grandmother was left living alone there, with my uncle and aunt a mile or so away and the favourite of the cousins also not too far away.

My uncle has four children - and although he and his wife said they had wanted to adopt me when I ended up (not legally) with my father/uncle's parents - they didn't follow through, or weren't allowed possibly due to my DGP's dislike of their religious beliefs (LDS).
At some point, my uncle admitted to me that he hated the fact that his parents brought me up, as it "took away" from HIS children......
There is always an edge to my dealings with him (religion, and them being so judgemental aside) - for example; my father stood me up for my wedding (well, two day's notice) so my unlce stood in to "give me away" in - but the price was that he humiliated me and made fun of me (spitefully, not affectionately) in the "father" of the Bride speech.

So, he continued to charge my GM rent - at the going rate. When the rent she paid had covered the money he had paid for the house - which was of course, increasing in value, he continued to charge her rent. Never at any point, did he consider granting her some sort of ownership of the property, in full or in part.

So, when she died - again, suddenly - there was apparently no will. And he told me that she left me nothing, and that when he sold the house, the proceeds would be divided between HIS children......

He also did not allow me to speak at her funeral - or even travel with the hearse (almost everyone there knew that I effectively her daughter), and instead, the favourite cousin delivered a eulogy - and words that she spoke were actually carved into the headstone.
(Note, she was not my grandmother's favourite grandchild.)

And, speaking of the headstone - he delayed getting it put at the grave for over four years... I was not allowed to sort it out , because he owns the plot, apparently. Four years! In fact, nearly five...

Am I being paranoid/unreasonable to think that - although not his primary objective - the side effect of my feelings being hurt massively (and not abiding by his mother's wishes) was ahappy consequence for him, given that he hated that I displaced his children somehow?

OP posts:
Notaroadrunner · 25/05/2021 10:06

He owned the house. You were never going to be entitled to a share of it. The fact she may have paid rent over and above the cost of the house is irrelevant. She was renting it and never going to own it. If there was no will then your grandmother's estate would be split via intestacy rules. If she did have a will then it will be a public document, assuming it has gone through the Probate service at this stage and you can get a copy. Did she actually have much to leave when she died?

Your uncle sounds like a vile man for charging her full rent in the first place and for the way he behaves. The best thing you can do now is go no contact with that side of the family as they don't sound at all nice.

justanotherneighinparadise · 25/05/2021 10:08

Removing all of the emotional aspect the facts were he bought the house that your grandparents considered their home and they were able to live in it unfettered until their deaths. They had no estate to pass on, nor would they have had any estate if he hadn’t purchased the house for them, as they had rented all their lives. So I’m not sure why your questioning a will and you not being in it? Unless you think there was money in the bank they’d have bequeathed to you.

Now for the emotional side I agree he sounds like a cruel man. But then your father sounds equally as unpleasant. Do you need to stay in touch with this side of the family now your grandparents have passed? It seems to me that going NC would help you no end end of course some kind of talking therapy would always be beneficial so you could talk it out with someone impartial.

Voomster953 · 25/05/2021 10:12

Your family, apart from perhaps your grandparents, sound awful. All this spite and favouritism.

Focus on yourself and your own family now. Your uncle sounds very bitter, perhaps a product of the strange family dynamic.

UhtredRagnarson · 25/05/2021 10:17

I think you’re doing yourself a disservice by holding onto this anger. Maybe get some counselling to help you accept the situation and let it go.

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 10:17

@Notaroadrunner

He owned the house. You were never going to be entitled to a share of it. The fact she may have paid rent over and above the cost of the house is irrelevant. She was renting it and never going to own it. If there was no will then your grandmother's estate would be split via intestacy rules. If she did have a will then it will be a public document, assuming it has gone through the Probate service at this stage and you can get a copy. Did she actually have much to leave when she died?

Your uncle sounds like a vile man for charging her full rent in the first place and for the way he behaves. The best thing you can do now is go no contact with that side of the family as they don't sound at all nice.

Oh, thank you - I agree! the charging rent - at the going rate, when she was a pensioner and of limited means - is despicable anyway. I wish I knew what had happened - but she didn't tell me in time for me (H and I) to try and do something.....

I would not say I particuarly wanted or needed(?) to inherit from the property, but it just seems to be a convenient mechanism to cut me out even further. If I had had the chance, I would have bought the house for them, and probably would have needed to charge at least some "rent", but not in the same way my uncle did. But the key difference would have been that I would have if at all possible considered the house to be theirs/hers (and taken legal steps) when the original value had been "repaid". I would also have made sure they had wills that took that into consideration, not just (or at all) for my "benefit".....

Because my uncle and his family (which is now huge) are SO strongly religious and their lives bound by LDS beliefs, they are not usually considered devious and selfish - but there are reasons I suppose that he became so wealthy. Whilst still giving 10% to the Church. (I'm not entirely sure HOW my father got to be so rich though - but he is just as, if not more, tight-fisted and mean in every sense of the word.)

Oh - the F word..... I mean "families" Sad Sad

OP posts:
Merryoldgoat · 25/05/2021 10:23

There is nothing to cut you out of though. If he’d not bought it there would be nothing.

However your father and uncle sound very unpleasant and I’d seriously consider how much a part of your life they should be going forward.

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 10:26

@justanotherneighinparadise

Removing all of the emotional aspect the facts were he bought the house that your grandparents considered their home and they were able to live in it unfettered until their deaths. They had no estate to pass on, nor would they have had any estate if he hadn’t purchased the house for them, as they had rented all their lives. So I’m not sure why your questioning a will and you not being in it? Unless you think there was money in the bank they’d have bequeathed to you.

Now for the emotional side I agree he sounds like a cruel man. But then your father sounds equally as unpleasant. Do you need to stay in touch with this side of the family now your grandparents have passed? It seems to me that going NC would help you no end end of course some kind of talking therapy would always be beneficial so you could talk it out with someone impartial.

Yes, I do agree.... in a sense. But as I have posted, I would have done it differently. It seems that he did it in the way that benefitted him the most, which is pretty much the antithesis of being as humble and God-fearing as he cliams to be.

I am questioning an actual "will" or lack of (there iis nothing official I am sure), but my DGM DID state that she left/intended to leave me my daughter a small amount of money and some small antiques and her piano. My uncle said that she had not told him so, and I had no proof that she did....

Yes, they lived there "unfettered" but my goodness, he benefitted so nicely - and hurting and cutting me out was a consequence that I do suspect he planned, due to HIS issues - which then became mine.

I may well post about my Father and his "you are in my Will/Not in my Will" antics Hmm

I have had therapy of sorts - and in fact, therapy about other things (Eating Disorders) always seems to come back to the "Family" issues. I doubt they will ever be resolved, NC or not, I am sorry to say.

OP posts:
DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 10:32

@Merryoldgoat

There is nothing to cut you out of though. If he’d not bought it there would be nothing.

However your father and uncle sound very unpleasant and I’d seriously consider how much a part of your life they should be going forward.

When I say "cut me out" - in this sense I actually meant to cut me out of the family.

As I have said, given the chance, I would have done differently for them. If he had not bought it, I might have - or someone else, who would have done just waht he did - but at least my face would not have been rubbed in it.

It seems that he wanted revenge on them - charging rent when he didn't need to,not treating at as a loan so the property could become theirs, not even - in the end - taking into account that his pensioner parents had enabled him to have an appreciating asset etc etc.

  • and also on me. Very sly.
OP posts:
Rave2thegrave · 25/05/2021 10:32

I would cut all ties snd concentrate on the family you have made. Try not to take it personally, its the situation, teamed with a spiteful man and not about you really. Flowers

LizziesTwin · 25/05/2021 10:38

If your uncle hadn’t stepped in your grandparents would have had to move in their late 70s, they presumably didn’t tell you their house was on the market which would have allowed you to help.

Although your uncle has not behaved well, your grandmother should have written a will and then the issue wouldn’t have arisen.

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 10:43

@Rave2thegrave

I would cut all ties snd concentrate on the family you have made. Try not to take it personally, its the situation, teamed with a spiteful man and not about you really. Flowers
Thank you - I have always been pretty much the vampire tapping at the window to be let in, so the "ties" are easy to allow to dissolve, I am sad to say.

I have no idea quite why both my father and uncle have turned out the way they have - but my Grandfather was very much hands-off and Grandmother quite anxious, probably due to that. Bringing me as a three year-old into it ("Oh, isn't she lovely - shall we keep her?" - is about as official as it got, and probably should not have been allowed....) was probably not the best decision but was to keep me out of the care system I believe.

But me being there DID disrupt their relationships with their sons (and their own with easch other I suspect) - even if there were other factors, it was probably quite easy to pin everything that went badly from that point onto the troubled teenager that the agreeable little blonde three-year-old eventually became.

I have struggled with forgiving myself, when no-one else has.
Also, as I have posted elsewhere - we all move on I guess, whether we like it or not.

And the past can rear it's head, no matter how much effort is made ot put it behind us.
A quote from Bates Motel when the half-brother Dylan shows up and Norma pretty much dismisses the past, "You're telling me to Put It Behind Me - it IS me, How do I put me behind me?"

OP posts:
DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 10:46

@LizziesTwin

If your uncle hadn’t stepped in your grandparents would have had to move in their late 70s, they presumably didn’t tell you their house was on the market which would have allowed you to help.

Although your uncle has not behaved well, your grandmother should have written a will and then the issue wouldn’t have arisen.

I do agree - but I think he could have done better. Or, if I had been told, we could have helped them differently. I certainly felt that I owed them, not the other way round. Almost every aspect of the arrangement benefiited my Uncle, and his children further down the line. And he made sure that I never did benefit at all - which is why I am inclined to see it as revenge.
OP posts:
Mellonsprite · 25/05/2021 10:53

Financially you have no axe to grind, your uncle saved his elderly parents the hassle of moving and he is quite entitled to charge a rent. I don’t think it sounds like ‘revenge’ as such though.
Emotionally, he sounds deeply unpleasant and I think you should put a lot of distance between you and him.

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 11:04

@Mellonsprite

Financially you have no axe to grind, your uncle saved his elderly parents the hassle of moving and he is quite entitled to charge a rent. I don’t think it sounds like ‘revenge’ as such though. Emotionally, he sounds deeply unpleasant and I think you should put a lot of distance between you and him.
I do think though that it was consideration - rather than making it possible for them to have a property to leave (and he could have done that....) - even by transferring owndership when the rent paid had covered the purchse price. That's what I would have done.

He even made sure that they didn't have any spare money by charging them the rent he did, when he could have made it nominal if going down that path (obviously not at the same time as above re. transferring it to them). It was a win-win for him - at the same time as putting his brother to shame (as if he cared much).

I know that - had I been in the picture at the right time - I would have done things very differently.

Yes, making it possible to stay in the house might seem considerate and kind - but there was selfish side to it. He probably wanted to put his brother to shame and benefit himself - and at the same time, make me angry and upset. Tick. Tick. Tick. Angry

I think I am emotionally almost dead inside now - which is which I do consider some of these matters in a slightly more dispassionate fashion. Not necessarily a good way to be I know.

OP posts:
UpTheJunktion · 25/05/2021 11:05

OP, I am so sorry your father and uncle are such horrible uncaring, unkind and selfish people. It is tragic that you had no parents to bring you up with love and security, and that whatever happened with your Mum was compounded by being abandoned by your Dad.

I very much hope that amidst all this you did have the most important thing your grandparents could have given: their unconditional love.

Who knows if your uncle’s actions are revenge or just callous self interest? In the end, whatever his mix of motives, he was never going to behave generously, financially or emotionally. He treated his own mother as a source of investment (even if he did secure the house, it wasn’t done out if generosity, it was a business deal).

Look after your own good self, and thank your lucky stars that you did not grow up with these horrible men.

What is LDS? It doesn’t sound life enhancing as a religion!

Ukholidaysaregreat · 25/05/2021 11:07

I have no idea what LDS is - keeps changing into LSD but I'm sure your Uncle isn't a raver. I would check your Grandma didn't make a will first as all wills are public. Although as you say the house was never hers. Then I would distance myself from the Uncle and the rest of the family. How sad for your Grandma and Grandad to have 2 awful entitled children. I bet they were very pleased to have you in their lives. You have all the good memories of them and the Uncle and Father can't take those away. It is difficult to let go of resentments when you have been treated badly by people but that will just upset you. Enjoy the life you have and your lovely daughter. Good Luck for the future.

UpTheJunktion · 25/05/2021 11:08

P.S you do not seem dead inside: your kind heart shines out in your sensitivity as to how you would have looked after your grandmother.

billy1966 · 25/05/2021 11:09

He sounds like a mean nasty man.

Lovely to hear he is so religious 🙄.

OP, remember your grandparents, your DNA comes from them, not the two horrors they reared.

What a disappointment they must have been.

Wishing you the best.

noirchatsdeux · 25/05/2021 11:18

LDS - Church of Latter Day Saints - Mormons, as they are more commonly known as.

averythinline · 25/05/2021 11:20

Why is this all about your uncle? He does sound horrible but decisions and financial stuff done years ago or agreements between him /your grandparents whatever are now long past..... his motives and meanings you will never resolve....
But he had no responsibility for you particularly...I doubt its you as an individual he was against...but maybe as against his parents/brother whatever as you say his father your grandparent weren't good either maybe he resented having to buy them a house?

This also sounds like a deflection from other people/issues possibly and I would really suggest you find a counsellor to talk to who can help....

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 11:20

Thank you for the nice comments and replies. I just don't understand why my father and uncle are the way they are.... And I cannot help but feel responsbile for just being there......

Those who asked - LDS - The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints - Mormons, in other words....
DGPs disapproved quite strongly of the choice my Uncle and Aunt made to follow those beliefs. In part because they imposed their choices onto everyone else so vehemently.

(I have my own opinions - but they are based only in my relatives, and the few Mormon Chruch gatherings I have attended. There was a period of a few years when I was receiving a copy of the Book of Mormon every Christmas sigh - and still they didn't sway me. I ahve Buddhist leanings, but they don't even care - so long as I refrain from stiulants, so definitely no LSD! Not even tea and coffee.)

OP posts:
tara66 · 25/05/2021 11:22

One possible aspect regarding the property, if your uncle had gifted the house to your GPs is that he might have had to pay Gift Tax on it.

tara66 · 25/05/2021 11:25

Perhaps if you did ''convert'' to being a Mormon it would be in your best interests?

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 11:29

@averythinline

Why is this all about your uncle? He does sound horrible but decisions and financial stuff done years ago or agreements between him /your grandparents whatever are now long past..... his motives and meanings you will never resolve.... But he had no responsibility for you particularly...I doubt its you as an individual he was against...but maybe as against his parents/brother whatever as you say his father your grandparent weren't good either maybe he resented having to buy them a house?

This also sounds like a deflection from other people/issues possibly and I would really suggest you find a counsellor to talk to who can help....

I explained why the relationships are distorted in the OP. I have been far closer to them than I would have been (and as a result, the uncle/neice relationship ruined) due to the living arrangements set in place when I was three.

I was the effective daughter of my Grandparents, but not treated as such when it suited them, and when it mattered.

He admitted himself that he held a lot of resentment towards me for diluting the attention he believed they should have given to his four children - which, you know, parents..... [even though they had made noises, apparently, about adopted me at the start]

They did a lot of things as we were growing up, that I now see were very passive aggressive - towrds me as a child, and towards his own parents but becuase of me.

It is not a deflection as such from other issues - but unfortunatley a part of my existence, and I posted to get some valuable input from people who are not connected wth the situation, and hopefully will have some useful/helpful/objective thoughts.

Counselling has never helped long term I am sorry to say Sad

OP posts:
DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 11:32

@tara66

Perhaps if you did ''convert'' to being a Mormon it would be in your best interests?
Oh, I hope you aren't serious, and being cryptic..... Grin I mean NO offence to Mormons (the Fundamentals are weird though) - but I do like me a Costa, and I like to be able to take a headache pill. Let alone, they do not especially welcome divorced women Shock
OP posts: