AIBU to think my Uncle was taking revenge

[DumbestBlonde]

My grandparents were life-long private renters. They never got onto the property ladder for various reasons, and there was not the stigma against renters that there is now. I grew up with them, and in that rented property - leaving when I got my career underway.

There may not have been stigma in the same way (or I was oblivious to it) but there was still insecurity...... The house was owned by an elderly lady and it happened that she (or her children) wanted to sell it. My DGPs were late 70s.

My father and my uncle are both wealthy men. My father at that time lived in I think France, my uncle quite nearby to DGPs. However, I was not informed about the situation, which happened the same year as my daughter was born. My father would never have helped them, that's a given.

My uncle took money out of his investments and purchased the house (which was a character property but unmodernised) outright. I am not sure of the terms that they arranged between them at the outset.

After four years my grandfather died quite suddenly, although he was a good age. My grandmother was left living alone there, with my uncle and aunt a mile or so away and the favourite of the cousins also not too far away.

My uncle has four children - and although he and his wife said they had wanted to adopt me when I ended up (not legally) with my father/uncle's parents - they didn't follow through, or weren't allowed possibly due to my DGP's dislike of their religious beliefs (LDS).
At some point, my uncle admitted to me that he hated the fact that his parents brought me up, as it "took away" from HIS children......
There is always an edge to my dealings with him (religion, and them being so judgemental aside) - for example; my father stood me up for my wedding (well, two day's notice) so my unlce stood in to "give me away" in - but the price was that he humiliated me and made fun of me (spitefully, not affectionately) in the "father" of the Bride speech.

So, he continued to charge my GM rent - at the going rate. When the rent she paid had covered the money he had paid for the house - which was of course, increasing in value, he continued to charge her rent. Never at any point, did he consider granting her some sort of ownership of the property, in full or in part.

So, when she died - again, suddenly - there was apparently no will. And he told me that she left me nothing, and that when he sold the house, the proceeds would be divided between HIS children......

He also did not allow me to speak at her funeral - or even travel with the hearse (almost everyone there knew that I effectively her daughter), and instead, the favourite cousin delivered a eulogy - and words that she spoke were actually carved into the headstone.
(Note, she was not my grandmother's favourite grandchild.)

And, speaking of the headstone - he delayed getting it put at the grave for over four years... I was not allowed to sort it out , because he owns the plot, apparently. Four years! In fact, nearly five...

Am I being paranoid/unreasonable to think that - although not his primary objective - the side effect of my feelings being hurt massively (and not abiding by his mother's wishes) was ahappy consequence for him, given that he hated that I displaced his children somehow?

How about forgetting that he is my uncle and that they were my GRANDparents - I wonder how this would have gone if I had actually BEEN their daughter, not the interloper he thought I was?

Why do you think it would have been any different? They had nothing to leave you and your upset over that is misguided. Even if you had done things 'differently' as you say you would have, it's still you buying the house. They had nothing to leave and that is no one elses fault.

@Flowers500

And in the nicest way, you're still not understanding the very basic point that it would make ZERO sense for him to gift a house to elderly people that are going to die in the coming years. He might as well just give 30% to the government and hand the other 70% to a care home. And if the 70% didn't go to the carehome, just hand it to his brother.

This would not be generous or loving, it would be stupid.

I am understanding it (it is getting said quite a lot now, and gthe detached part of me realises that) - but my view is a bit blinkered, I have to admit.

As I said, objective viewpoints are welcome.

@Grizalda

Wouldn't it be a nice world if that WAS what happened though - rather than exploiting and capitalising on others' misfortunes.....

You don't know me or my circumstances. I honestly don't feel the need to justify anything to you but right now I'm not some unscrupulous career landlord
But that's not to say I'm going to hand over my hard earned assets to anyone but my children, and yes - I might move to maximise those assets in the future, I'm not sure how yet but this country will ALWAYS need rental properties.

I didn't say anything about YOU particularly. I realise that there are many ways and whys people become landlords. It is a very sad reflection of the times. I just think your tone was a bit off - but you do you.

You've viewing it from very much your own perspective, which is understandable. However to be really clear that is miles away from anyone calling you selfish--you have been dealt an absolutely shit hand in life, and the people you considered the basis for your stability are gone. It distresses you that now they are dead, the stability is gone too. You know they wished that stability could have continued past their deaths, that they wanted this for you.

This is such an understandable feeling. It's a basic instinct and it's so right, to want to know that those you love are safe and provided for.

You are totally reasonable to feel this way and to feel this second loss of stability so deeply.

@Flowers500

And in the nicest way, you're still not understanding the very basic point that it would make ZERO sense for him to gift a house to elderly people that are going to die in the coming years. He might as well just give 30% to the government and hand the other 70% to a care home. And if the 70% didn't go to the carehome, just hand it to his brother.

This would not be generous or loving, it would be stupid.

With that aside - the fact he was charging market rent is distastful in my opinion. He did not need to - and has told me so. Even if they left nothing, they could have had better lives towards the end, instead he made sure they were living like church mice - and that WAS to line his pockets.

If it satisfies your curiosity you could probably obtain a copy of any will your grandparents had. But it's probably healthier for you to view it that your grandparents did their best, even if things weren't perfect and let it go with the rest of the family. Forge your own path - you don't need them and you don't need their stuff. They were horrible and you are better off cutting ties and focussing on your own life and future.

@Flowers500

You've viewing it from very much your own perspective, which is understandable. However to be really clear that is miles away from anyone calling you selfish--you have been dealt an absolutely shit hand in life, and the people you considered the basis for your stability are gone. It distresses you that now they are dead, the stability is gone too. You know they wished that stability could have continued past their deaths, that they wanted this for you.

This is such an understandable feeling. It's a basic instinct and it's so right, to want to know that those you love are safe and provided for.

You are totally reasonable to feel this way and to feel this second loss of stability so deeply.

Thank you Flowers. The stability that I did have was tenuous at best - and of course, I did not know for the longest time that there were such undercurrents of resentent towards me.

Some people choose - and are able - to manifest that emotional resentment in practical and financial ways, so it causes upset on all levels.

(I could not even start to explain on here just how badly I was ridden roughshod over in my divorce; one bad thing truly does lead to another sometimes.....)

I think your dysfunctional upbringing has done a number on you and you need to redirect yourself or else you'll become really bitter.
You can hide behind your faux indignation 'for the poor folk' all you like but it really sounds like it boils down to jealousy of your uncle and whatever reason your parents didn't bring you up themselves.
That's some heavy stuff for anyone, have you sought counselling?

Also from all your updates, I think life has dealt you so many nasty hits, that maybe your stuck on what could have been.
This thread may help you move forward, as you can split it all out and work it through,

@JustLyra

I can’t comment on the house and finances aspect, but I can totally understand your feelings about your uncle resenting you being there.

My aunt is very bitter that my Grandparents had me to look after when she had her children.

I was the youngest of 4, the youngest by a considerable way, and was taken by my GP’s when I was 7.

My Aunt’s daughter is 8 months younger than me and my aunt feels she missed out on a lot of GP time. Even though my Nana was working until she had to give it up to look after me and therefore started spending more time (way more time!) with my cousin too as we were in the same school class Aunt still feels like her child missed out.

She even asked me to apologise for it relatively recently. She’s never spoken to me since as I asked her straight out if she was asking me to apologise for being abused so badly by my parents that my GP’s rescued me.

It’s very possible your uncle feels the same.

Your situation IS very similar - and I feel for you..... Every relationship gets somehow distorted when straying from the "norm". Grudges start to build, when people aren't getting the ideal level of involvement that they think they deserve - even though the DGP are people in their own rights first....

I always felt bad that mine took me in not too long after the younger son (my father) had left home (I think about three years), probably just when DGF was thinking he would have some freedom from chidren. DGM had always wanted a daughter so for her, it was an ideal - but not well thought out - "solution". She then spent my childhood trying to turn me against the mother I never saw....sigh

Those in this situation, like you, and like me, had no say in the matter - and as children, would probably have far preferred to be with our M and Fs, no matter what; usually removed for safety reasons, but still have a sense of loss and displacement. And certainly insecurity. That lingers.

It always amazes me when the so-called adults want to blame the children who had no choice.

And yes, funerals (and weddings and other events) can really give people with a grudge the chance to exercise it, even "unintentionally". I was instantly, like you, demoted to grand-daughter.....

When my mother's father died (I had only met him once as an adult, but he had been heartbroken when my mother lost custody), my mother never even told me, She said that people would have been awful to me at the service - but really, she wanted to have the focus be on her, not the daughter from the dim and distant past. I think in today's jargon, it would be said that she "wanted to control the narrative". And that has continued to the present. People like that are not able to change, and don't even see why they should....

@Grizalda

I think your dysfunctional upbringing has done a number on you and you need to redirect yourself or else you'll become really bitter. You can hide behind your faux indignation 'for the poor folk' all you like but it really sounds like it boils down to jealousy of your uncle and whatever reason your parents didn't bring you up themselves. That's some heavy stuff for anyone, have you sought counselling?

It isn't "faux" indignation..... It's genuine. "For the poor folk"? - really? As I have said eariler, my Buddhism is showing....

I'm not sure if it is actual jealousy, but I do feel quite badly towards him and the arrangement with the house was the bigger of the problems, as it had consequences. No, the more I think about it.....jealousy is not what it is.I would be crazy NOT to be bitter to some extent - but it is by and large not something that I externalise.

The Counselling question has already been asked - and answered. It does no good, as I end up really resenting how much thought and energy I have to put into consdering these awful realtionships with people who could not care if I am alive or dead.
Even attending an eating disorder counsellor resulted in just under a year of talking about (wallowing in, as I am sure some would say) my background/history - which whilst it shouldn't be taboo, took away from the issue at hand, and meant that I reverted as soon as the sessions ended.

It is part of my DNA now - in the same way that someone with a happy upbringing and wonderful family has those experiences of part of theirs.

I was brought up by my grandparents and I think I can understand some of your feelings. It's not really about the house or the inheritance, I think, more the fact that you want to be recognised as someone's daughter - and the closest you can get to that is to be recognised as your grandparents' "daughter". The inheritance, the funeral, all served to emphasise that you're their granddaughter. I'm not explaining myself well, but I do understand that longing to belong, to know your place in the world.

As for your uncle, just let it all go. You are trying to understand his actions from the point of view of how you would act. He's not you, and you don't need to understand what motivates him, especially now when you can't change anything. Take away the power he currently holds to continue to hurt you and don't give him another thought.

When I can feel myself slipping into thoughts like yours, I remember that I had my lovely grandparents in my life for many years, and for that I am grateful and it means more than any house or money ever could.

Your uncle bought the house when the DGP's were late 70's.

So, he continued to charge my GM rent - at the going rate>

which they had paid all their life, according to you..

When the rent she paid had covered the money he had paid for the house -

Given her advanced age and limited income when uncle bought the property, it's highly unlikely her rent for those last years ever matched what he paid for the house.

  Uncle owns the house outright and who he leaves it to is none of your business.   Granny did not own the house and  could not leave it to you.   THANKS TO UNCLE buying the property from the previous owner /LL,    your DGP  were able to spend their last years in the home they'd always lived in. 

Had the previous owner sold it to anyone else else, the tenants your GDP may have been given notice to quit in old age.

Instead of carping about your uncle, you should be very grateful for the years of security he ensured for your GDP's extreme old age.

As for the funeral arrangements and gravestone ; he who pays the piper calls the tune. Uncle arranged and paid for his parents funerals and headstone , not you.

@chasingmytail4

I was brought up by my grandparents and I think I can understand some of your feelings. It's not really about the house or the inheritance, I think, more the fact that you want to be recognised as someone's daughter - and the closest you can get to that is to be recognised as your grandparents' "daughter". The inheritance, the funeral, all served to emphasise that you're their granddaughter. I'm not explaining myself well, but I do understand that longing to belong, to know your place in the world.

As for your uncle, just let it all go. You are trying to understand his actions from the point of view of how you would act. He's not you, and you don't need to understand what motivates him, especially now when you can't change anything. Take away the power he currently holds to continue to hurt you and don't give him another thought.

When I can feel myself slipping into thoughts like yours, I remember that I had my lovely grandparents in my life for many years, and for that I am grateful and it means more than any house or money ever could.

Thank you - yes - for your wise remark, and offering a perspective that I had honestly never thought of (and not just in this thread, but my whole like....). There are words that I literally choke when trying to say - "Dad" - "Mum" - it's always "Father"/"Mother" - and even then avoided.... (easily) You're right - it would have meant a lot to be recognised as their daughter, especially as it was never legally formalised. From them dying, everything shifted - and the relationships that had been already damaged became morerathan ever.

Mostly I am not really regarded as an actual human being, just worthless..

I still maintian that my uncle's actions had an undercurrent of being pleased that he could "put me in my place" - when I only have to look at thoeir happy and kind family (and any other) to know exactly what my place is.

You seem so much more sensible than me, so I am sure that you can keep thoughts like mine at bay - and please dont let my self-pitying whining have any effect. You have said very kind and understanding words to a strange stranger, and I thank you.

2bazookas - DGPs were late 60s now - do keep up.

@2bazookas

Your uncle bought the house when the DGP's were late 70's.

So, he continued to charge my GM rent - at the going rate>

which they had paid all their life, according to you..

When the rent she paid had covered the money he had paid for the house -

Given her advanced age and limited income when uncle bought the property, it's highly unlikely her rent for those last years ever matched what he paid for the house.

  Uncle owns the house outright and who he leaves it to is none of your business.   Granny did not own the house and  could not leave it to you.   THANKS TO UNCLE buying the property from the previous owner /LL,    your DGP  were able to spend their last years in the home they'd always lived in. 

Had the previous owner sold it to anyone else else, the tenants your GDP may have been given notice to quit in old age.

Instead of carping about your uncle, you should be very grateful for the years of security he ensured for your GDP's extreme old age.

As for the funeral arrangements and gravestone ; he who pays the piper calls the tune. Uncle arranged and paid for his parents funerals and headstone , not you.

As for the funeral arrangements and gravestone ; he who pays the piper calls the tune. Uncle arranged and paid for his parents funerals and headstone , not you.

He would not LET me pay or contribute, in part because he wanted me to be shut out. There is no other explanation.

Even if they left nothing, they could have had better lives towards the end, instead he made sure they were living like church mice - and that WAS to line his pockets
Why were they living like church mice? Genuine question. If you would have bought them a house, surely you helped them out financially in other ways if you were unhappy with the way they were living?

@user1493494961

2bazookas - DGPs were late 60s now - do keep up.

I could give you all the accurate dates - then you would not even need to be snide x

@CJsGoldfish

Even if they left nothing, they could have had better lives towards the end, instead he made sure they were living like church mice - and that WAS to line his pockets Why were they living like church mice? Genuine question. If you would have bought them a house, surely you helped them out financially in other ways if you were unhappy with the way they were living?

My circumstances changed some years later (and towards the ends of their lives), but I did what I could - and certainly COULD HAVE at the time my Uncle bought the house - found a way to buy it.

Haven't read every reply, but here's my take on the situation..

Your uncle was receiving rent from your GP's. This was a housing benefit (?) If uncle had bought the house and let GP's live in it rent free, then GP's probably would have been no better off than they were as they wouldn't have been in receipt of HB.
Your uncle knew this and used it to his advantage, thus getting the rent paid from benefits, just like any other landlord would do.

www.zoopla.co.uk/property/222-old-hall-road/chesterfield/s40-1hj/20221430/

Not sure about links - but here's the house.

This is so sad to read. You know rationally you are your uncle's niece but it is a wound that you ,feel that he doesnt treat you the same as his children.

Xx

@SummerOfComedy

Haven't read every reply, but here's my take on the situation..

Your uncle was receiving rent from your GP's. This was a housing benefit (?) If uncle had bought the house and let GP's live in it rent free, then GP's probably would have been no better off than they were as they wouldn't have been in receipt of HB.
Your uncle knew this and used it to his advantage, thus getting the rent paid from benefits, just like any other landlord would do.

Yes, I have thought this too...... And you should HEAR what he has to say about people on benefits!

@GucciJackie

This is so sad to read. You know rationally you are your uncle's niece but it is a wound that you ,feel that he doesnt treat you the same as his children. Xx

Well, I expected to be treated a littledifferently - but the resentment towards me has been at the heart of most of things that have happened. When I was a kid and would visit, there always seemed to be a reason to take me to one side [my Aunt usually - who terrified me anyway] and sit me down for a long session of "home truths".

I got my home truths when I went off back home to a cold and lonely existence with no brothers and sisters.

He owned the house. Why would you be entitled to it?

He also did not allow me to speak at her funeral - or even travel with the hearse

he delayed getting[the headstone] put at the grave for over four years... I was not allowed to sort it out , because he owns the plot, apparently.

These are example of petty, nasty behaviour. But the house ownership has nothing to do with it. He bought the house, and can do with it what he wants.

He doesn't sound pleasant, so I'd cut contact. Don't spend time and energy on someone who clearly doesn't respect or like you.