AIBU to think my Uncle was taking revenge

[DumbestBlonde]

My grandparents were life-long private renters. They never got onto the property ladder for various reasons, and there was not the stigma against renters that there is now. I grew up with them, and in that rented property - leaving when I got my career underway.

There may not have been stigma in the same way (or I was oblivious to it) but there was still insecurity...... The house was owned by an elderly lady and it happened that she (or her children) wanted to sell it. My DGPs were late 70s.

My father and my uncle are both wealthy men. My father at that time lived in I think France, my uncle quite nearby to DGPs. However, I was not informed about the situation, which happened the same year as my daughter was born. My father would never have helped them, that's a given.

My uncle took money out of his investments and purchased the house (which was a character property but unmodernised) outright. I am not sure of the terms that they arranged between them at the outset.

After four years my grandfather died quite suddenly, although he was a good age. My grandmother was left living alone there, with my uncle and aunt a mile or so away and the favourite of the cousins also not too far away.

My uncle has four children - and although he and his wife said they had wanted to adopt me when I ended up (not legally) with my father/uncle's parents - they didn't follow through, or weren't allowed possibly due to my DGP's dislike of their religious beliefs (LDS).
At some point, my uncle admitted to me that he hated the fact that his parents brought me up, as it "took away" from HIS children......
There is always an edge to my dealings with him (religion, and them being so judgemental aside) - for example; my father stood me up for my wedding (well, two day's notice) so my unlce stood in to "give me away" in - but the price was that he humiliated me and made fun of me (spitefully, not affectionately) in the "father" of the Bride speech.

So, he continued to charge my GM rent - at the going rate. When the rent she paid had covered the money he had paid for the house - which was of course, increasing in value, he continued to charge her rent. Never at any point, did he consider granting her some sort of ownership of the property, in full or in part.

So, when she died - again, suddenly - there was apparently no will. And he told me that she left me nothing, and that when he sold the house, the proceeds would be divided between HIS children......

He also did not allow me to speak at her funeral - or even travel with the hearse (almost everyone there knew that I effectively her daughter), and instead, the favourite cousin delivered a eulogy - and words that she spoke were actually carved into the headstone.
(Note, she was not my grandmother's favourite grandchild.)

And, speaking of the headstone - he delayed getting it put at the grave for over four years... I was not allowed to sort it out , because he owns the plot, apparently. Four years! In fact, nearly five...

Am I being paranoid/unreasonable to think that - although not his primary objective - the side effect of my feelings being hurt massively (and not abiding by his mother's wishes) was ahappy consequence for him, given that he hated that I displaced his children somehow?

@kgov1

If you had bought the property for your grandmother and transferred it in to her name and she then died without a will, you would still have got nothing. You uncle could still then have gifted his share to his children despite you having bought the property. He sounds like he is jealous of your relationship with his mother. Just move on and forget him, knowing you did the best you could with what you knew at the time.

Do you think I would have let that happen? He took bad, self-serving "care" of her.

You obviously have extremely complex issues surrounding certain members of your family, and I am sorry for that. But the facts as far as I can make out don't make you hard done by.
You are not your grandparents DD so that argument is irrelevant, they may have brought you up but they had two sons - they are their closest relatives and on the whole people leave stuff to their closest relatives (and if they don;t there are sometimes grounds for contesting).

Your GPs may have paid the equivalent in rent to the value of the house over the years - but they didn't pay it all to your uncle - they paid it to their landlords and were presumably happy to do so as they had chosen not to be owners,.. Your uncle bought the house so it is his to do with as he wishes - you have absolutely no claim on it at all. Your GPs agreed to pay him rent to continue living in it - that was their choice - otherwise presumably he could have rented it out to someone else or lived in it himself.

It is upsetting that your GM promised you certain sentimental items and you haven't been given them, but that is the reason people must make clear wills and lodge them with a lawyer and tell family members that they exist, so these problems don't arise.

Your Uncle sounds like a fairly unpleasant man (and sorry to all the mormons out there but a church based on the dodgy dealings of its crooked founder - is not going to be full of upright citizens). And I have no idea why you don;t drink tea or coffee if you aren't a mormon - drink what the hell you like.

I have a relative who has devoted her entire life to getting as much out of my parents as possible to the exclusion of me and my sister. We have found that our lives are much happier for drawing a line under the whole business, having no contact, relinquishing all feelings of hurt and feeling robbed and just getting on with our lives. My sister and I say 'we have each other and that is the most important thing' Celebrate the happiness you have and cut out those people who make your life miserable.

@steff13

Me. And yes, grown men CAN want to have revenge on women, even - especially - if related.

You said he uses money for revenge. He never owed you any money, so how has he taken revenge on you?

And I know men can want to take revenge on women. I never implied otherwise...

This happened a long time ago, perhaps you need to speak to someone to help you come to terms with it.

I didn't mean "yes" as in disputing you at all - I wrote the way I sometimes speak. He did not need to be owing money to me to use finances as manipulation and/or revenge, surely?

However long ago it happened isn't the point; there can be consequences that echo down the years or be refreshed by another event; especially in "families" Unfortunately.

I think you sound normal. My parents did not allow me to have my own experience and now, as an adult that triggers my rage and upset. I told them they'd hurt me and they disagreed. So it's a new wound on an old wound.

Im having psychotherapy and it's not what i thought it would be as she always seems to hear my side! So odd.

Go look up kirsten neff and chris germer on youtube to help you accept things and accept your struggle with the reality xx

And I have no idea why you don;t drink tea or coffee if you aren't a mormon - drink what the hell you like.

They don't allow "stimulants". It makes for some difficulties whe socialising, as the LDS tules trump everyone else's;

I am not a Mormon, I live with a Costa decaff latte in my left hand.

He did not need to be owing money to me to use finances as manipulation and/or revenge, surely?

Yeah, I don't get how he used money against you for manipulation or revenge. All you've talked about is being left out of the proceeds from the house.

However long ago it happened isn't the point; there can be consequences that echo down the years or be refreshed by another event; especially in "families" Unfortunately.

Yes, and that is the reason why counseling is sometimes necessary.

You must be hurting OP. Yabu though sorry it's his house.

OP is your father still living in France? If so the Inheritance Law there stipulates that children cannot be disinherited. I think they get 1/3 of a deceased estate, so you would get an inheritance there from DF. This also applies in Channel Islands and elsewhere. (Napoleonic Code I think).

@GucciJackie

I think you sound normal. My parents did not allow me to have my own experience and now, as an adult that triggers my rage and upset. I told them they'd hurt me and they disagreed. So it's a new wound on an old wound.

Im having psychotherapy and it's not what i thought it would be as she always seems to hear my side! So odd.

Go look up kirsten neff and chris germer on youtube to help you accept things and accept your struggle with the reality xx

Thank you for the "normal" ---- there is quite a spectrum I find.

Ooh - the whole gaslighting thing! No, not fun - and so harmful.... Could drive someone crazy.

Becuase the initial*t in my life happened when I was so littl e - not only do I have to take on board about 10 different versions of it - but, by the time I could start to question how things were - I was definitely NOT allowed to mention the past. It was always taboo. In effect, I have no real history - becuase no-one has ever taloked about it - be it good, bad or indifferent. But especially if it causes them any discomfort.

When I first met my mother, all that happened was she spent evey time we were together talking about all the occasions, holidays etc that I had not been a part of (with the children she kept and had after me) - usually accompanied by photos and input from her husband. Oh the joy of that for 16 year old me.

Unless one problem is resolved - by discussion, efforts to repair, or at least understand, then the next one is - as you say - another wound on top of the previous one.

I cannot stand - believe it or not, and I was not always like this - talking about it any more. I feel all the old shame and sadness that I did at my first school. But now with no future ahead of me, which is all that saved me back then.

@tara66

OP is your father still living in France? If so the Inheritance Law there stipulates that children cannot be disinherited. I think they get 1/3 of a deceased estate, so you would get an inheritance there from DF. This also applies in Channel Islands and elsewhere. (Napoleonic Code I think).

He is in Canada now - although Quebec and I think a citizen. And I actually have tried to look up the laws about disinheriting - ONLY because of his "threats" vs "promises"..... I am still unclear though. Especially when it is weaponised in the way he does it, and if there is a loophole to prevent or minimise my inheriting I feel sure he would look for it. (And yet, on another day.....le sigh)

So if you know anything about that, it would help. (I have heard of the Napoleonic Code but thats about all....)

*DumbestBlonde

kgov1
If you had bought the property for your grandmother and transferred it in to her name and she then died without a will, you would still have got nothing. You uncle could still then have gifted his share to his children despite you having bought the property. He sounds like he is jealous of your relationship with his mother. Just move on and forget him, knowing you did the best you could with what you knew at the time.
Do you think I would have let that happen?
He took bad, self-serving "care" of her*

You say in response to kgov’s post above “do you think I would have let that happen?”. What would you not have let happen? Your uncle dividing up his share between his children and not including you, who aren’t a child of his? You couldn’t have prevented that. Or is it that you ‘wouldn’t have let’ your grandmother die without making a will and including you in it? Because that’s coercion and grounds for a will to be contested. And she could have gone and changed her will at any stage anyway. And, even if you did get her to agree to write a will leaving the house to you, wouldn’t you then be doing what it is you’re angry at your uncle for doing? Protecting the investment made.

@steff13

He did not need to be owing money to me to use finances as manipulation and/or revenge, surely?

Yeah, I don't get how he used money against you for manipulation or revenge. All you've talked about is being left out of the proceeds from the house.

However long ago it happened isn't the point; there can be consequences that echo down the years or be refreshed by another event; especially in "families" Unfortunately.

Yes, and that is the reason why counseling is sometimes necessary.

But what's the point in me trying to fix myself - in some kind of miserable echo chamber? Even when I was at my very very best and calmest and most "successful (relatively....), my father managed to find a chink in my armour to spoil my life at that time.

There have been other times when he and my father (see my comments about that particular gentleman re. dangling a carrot) have used money as a tool to make me behave - especially around the time of my divorce, when they could not even manage to do me a bad deed.

Sorry - I understood why you hadn't stepped in at the time, but not why your grandparents did not tell your about it when it was actually happening? And what did they say when you found out? It just seems weird that they didn't mention the fact that their landlady was selling or that your uncle had bought the house at the time and that they cost not to make wills in spite of your concerns about your uncle's handling of the whole situation.

I understand that your uncle made life needlessly difficult for you when he could have been kind and it sounds as though you have been totally screwed in the family stakes, but your grandparents are oddly silent in all this which seems to be at least part of the problem.

OP, here’s another possible view on the house issue: Sometimes it helps to turn things on their head and look from other angles?

If your uncle had not chosen to buy the home for your GP to rent, they might otherwise have again rented elsewhere, and potentially also had to move again when another landlord wanted to sell, potentially more than once and a vulnerable time in their lives?

Your uncle (their son) actually gave your GP stability and security in their later years.

In the 4 years that your GF rented your uncles house, would it seem unlikely in that short timescale that he could have paid enough in rent to equal the cost of the house? (It sounds unlikely)

Similarly, can you be sure that the additional rent your GM paid when she was widowed would even amount to something close to the cost of the property? (That might also be unlikely?)

Notwithstanding any of this, it was still always your uncles property for him to do with as he wishes in all events anyway of course.

@DumbestBlonde you will never find belonging and identity with this family OP. The only people that half gave you some are dead, and when they died they brought to the forefront that loss by not leaving a will and acknowledging you any way.

You have two options. Leave it all behind, build yourself up and accepting you are Blonde the person you became through your work,effort,experiences etc and that will have to be enough. Or, keep longing, keep wanting, keep waiting further hurting yourself in the process.

I'm not saying this to be a dick. I'm doing it because I've been there. I have no idea who my birth parents are and never met them, my adoptive mum was abusive in many ways(lucky me), my father is dead. All the relatives that I had close ,healthy relationships with are dead. Just the fuckwits left and my mum with whom I obviously don't have a close relationship with. What's worse, I found out in my 20's I was adopted so spent most of my life not understanding the resentment and sometimes abuse from certain family members, including my mum.

It's not your fault love . It never was.

@sammylady37

*DumbestBlonde

kgov1
If you had bought the property for your grandmother and transferred it in to her name and she then died without a will, you would still have got nothing. You uncle could still then have gifted his share to his children despite you having bought the property. He sounds like he is jealous of your relationship with his mother. Just move on and forget him, knowing you did the best you could with what you knew at the time.
Do you think I would have let that happen?
He took bad, self-serving "care" of her*

You say in response to kgov’s post above “do you think I would have let that happen?”. What would you not have let happen? Your uncle dividing up his share between his children and not including you, who aren’t a child of his? You couldn’t have prevented that. Or is it that you ‘wouldn’t have let’ your grandmother die without making a will and including you in it? Because that’s coercion and grounds for a will to be contested. And she could have gone and changed her will at any stage anyway. And, even if you did get her to agree to write a will leaving the house to you, wouldn’t you then be doing what it is you’re angry at your uncle for doing? Protecting the investment made.

Oh no, that's not what I meant - I would not have attempted to corece her..... you have misunderstood the way I said that. What I mean was that I would have made sure she knew that she had this opportunity to make her wishes known and that she needed to make it legal, not just tell people and it be OK. Even if she didn't have a house to leave to anyone .....

I had talked loosely to her about it (she was fully on the ball until she died) but she did put it off until it was too late. And died - needlessly? - very suddenly, just at a time when I was distracted by troubles within my marriage.

I hadn't realised that her son was not taking better care of her - even just to protect his investment.

Why don't you cut these men out of your life? What do you hope to gain from continuing to have a relationship with them? Your father is in Quebec, so going NC would be comparatively easy.

That would do you far more good than thinking about your uncle's house.

I would have made sure she knew that she had this opportunity to make her wishes known and that she needed to make it legal, not just tell people and it be OK.

Assuming your grandmother was a sensible woman, she will have known this anyway. She was aged 87, and chose not to make a will. You couldn't have changed this.

I hadn't realised that her son was not taking better care of her - even just to protect his investment.

I don't understand this. Are you implying that she died of neglect somehow? She was 87, which is a good age... it's not an unexpected surprise when someone in their late 80s passes away.

I also don't understand the reference to the investment, why on earth would looking after your grandmother protect your uncle's investment?

its a very lovely home, it must have been hard to see it Sold.

[quote AccidentallyOnPurpose]@DumbestBlonde you will never find belonging and identity with this family OP. The only people that half gave you some are dead, and when they died they brought to the forefront that loss by not leaving a will and acknowledging you any way.

You have two options. Leave it all behind, build yourself up and accepting you are Blonde the person you became through your work,effort,experiences etc and that will have to be enough. Or, keep longing, keep wanting, keep waiting further hurting yourself in the process.

I'm not saying this to be a dick. I'm doing it because I've been there. I have no idea who my birth parents are and never met them, my adoptive mum was abusive in many ways(lucky me), my father is dead. All the relatives that I had close ,healthy relationships with are dead. Just the fuckwits left and my mum with whom I obviously don't have a close relationship with. What's worse, I found out in my 20's I was adopted so spent most of my life not understanding the resentment and sometimes abuse from certain family members, including my mum.

It's not your fault love . It never was.[/quote]
Oh, I am so sorry to hear how it has been for you. I don't think you are being a dick at all.

The way these threads can take on a life of their own is exhausting. For every post there is an opinion and, me being me, I will respond or explain further, defend myself ot my point of view and certainly over-share...... And before you know it, there is just too much to take on board or engage with successfully, and I seem like an obsessed lunatic who is definitely B U.

Soemone else has posted elseweher about watching Long Lost Family and how it is so upsetting, and I agree. I have always known at least who my father is (yay) but didn't avtually know my mother until she fellt it was OK to write to me at 16 (joy) - but if I had been adopted I wonder if I might have gone searching..... Is that something you think about?

My own brother (who I never knew/about) searched for his family after a brush with death at age 25. I know for sure that his birth family was a disappointment and worse - but he had had an awful time with his adoptive family, despite their wealth.

In the future, it would be really nice if we could just come into the world minus family - like Brave New World or Logan's Run - then we would all be in the same boat, which would solve a lot of the problems for us poor cast-offs.

xx

@PinkSatinMoon

its a very lovely home, it must have been hard to see it Sold.

It was not so lovely when I grew up there, or when it was sold. It IS nice now though - but at a busy junction , and overlooked at the back quite badly (more so then when I was a kid).

Being sentimental, I woild have probably even kept the air raid shelter, which I remembered as my DGF's workshop.

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

I hadn't realised that her son was not taking better care of her - even just to protect his investment.

I don't understand this. Are you implying that she died of neglect somehow? She was 87, which is a good age... it's not an unexpected surprise when someone in their late 80s passes away.

I also don't understand the reference to the investment, why on earth would looking after your grandmother protect your uncle's investment?

Actually it WAS somewhat unexpected. She had declined the Boxing Day invitation to my Uncle's - there would have been a lot of people there. This was an affront to my Uncle who does not like to have an invitation declined no matter how justifiably. I spoke to her on Boxing Day and she was sad that he was annoyed.

The next day he apparently called the house but didn't go down to see her (1.5 miles) as he was still cross.

The next day, a neighbour from across the road could not get an answer - and when they got in, she was dead on the floor. As no PM was carried out, it was never established (if it could have been) whether she dies form her heart and rthenwent down, or fell and couldn't get help, or to the phone. If it was the latter, then I do feel that my Uncle and his sulking might have played a part in her not being discovered (in time....).

She was 87 with angina and arthritis, but bright and alert. I do not say he neglected her - but I do know how he and his broither like to punish by absence.

And of course, no one can say for sure, I know

Re. Quebec Inheritance Laws - a very quick search on google seems to indicate French inheritance Law does still apply there. One third of estate goes to spouse and two thirds to children.

@DumbestBlonde you say you’ve had many years of therapy / counselling. In all these years of expert help, has no one put to you any of the points that Mumsnetters have mentioned on these threads?