AIBU to think my Uncle was taking revenge

[DumbestBlonde]

My grandparents were life-long private renters. They never got onto the property ladder for various reasons, and there was not the stigma against renters that there is now. I grew up with them, and in that rented property - leaving when I got my career underway.

There may not have been stigma in the same way (or I was oblivious to it) but there was still insecurity...... The house was owned by an elderly lady and it happened that she (or her children) wanted to sell it. My DGPs were late 70s.

My father and my uncle are both wealthy men. My father at that time lived in I think France, my uncle quite nearby to DGPs. However, I was not informed about the situation, which happened the same year as my daughter was born. My father would never have helped them, that's a given.

My uncle took money out of his investments and purchased the house (which was a character property but unmodernised) outright. I am not sure of the terms that they arranged between them at the outset.

After four years my grandfather died quite suddenly, although he was a good age. My grandmother was left living alone there, with my uncle and aunt a mile or so away and the favourite of the cousins also not too far away.

My uncle has four children - and although he and his wife said they had wanted to adopt me when I ended up (not legally) with my father/uncle's parents - they didn't follow through, or weren't allowed possibly due to my DGP's dislike of their religious beliefs (LDS).
At some point, my uncle admitted to me that he hated the fact that his parents brought me up, as it "took away" from HIS children......
There is always an edge to my dealings with him (religion, and them being so judgemental aside) - for example; my father stood me up for my wedding (well, two day's notice) so my unlce stood in to "give me away" in - but the price was that he humiliated me and made fun of me (spitefully, not affectionately) in the "father" of the Bride speech.

So, he continued to charge my GM rent - at the going rate. When the rent she paid had covered the money he had paid for the house - which was of course, increasing in value, he continued to charge her rent. Never at any point, did he consider granting her some sort of ownership of the property, in full or in part.

So, when she died - again, suddenly - there was apparently no will. And he told me that she left me nothing, and that when he sold the house, the proceeds would be divided between HIS children......

He also did not allow me to speak at her funeral - or even travel with the hearse (almost everyone there knew that I effectively her daughter), and instead, the favourite cousin delivered a eulogy - and words that she spoke were actually carved into the headstone.
(Note, she was not my grandmother's favourite grandchild.)

And, speaking of the headstone - he delayed getting it put at the grave for over four years... I was not allowed to sort it out , because he owns the plot, apparently. Four years! In fact, nearly five...

Am I being paranoid/unreasonable to think that - although not his primary objective - the side effect of my feelings being hurt massively (and not abiding by his mother's wishes) was ahappy consequence for him, given that he hated that I displaced his children somehow?

The past is part of what made you but the present is what you are now.
None of this is about the house. Have you ever had therapy to deal with any of this.

There is nothing you can do now. Fair or not. It’s over. That part is in the past. We all would do things differently from others. But what others do is totally out of our control.

You have to try and find away for this ever present past ruining your future anymore.

You’re grandparents loved you. They had a home till the end.

@tara66

One possible aspect regarding the property, if your uncle had gifted the house to your GPs is that he might have had to pay Gift Tax on it.

Hmm, I wondered about this kind of implication (although also wonder if he paid tax on the rent he received). But, clever as he is, I am sure he could have found a way to help them with that kind of problem.

He did what was best for him - and arguably, for his parents. But mostly what was best for him

How about forgetting that he is my uncle and that they were my GRANDparents - I wonder how this would have gone if I had actually BEEN their daughter, not the interloper he thought I was?

This is all very sad to read but ultimately it might be helpful to find a way to feel ‘it’s ok to not be ok ‘ about the whole sorry situation. Nothing can be changed. Your uncle would clearly not be a good person to have in your life so leaving it all behind is surely the only way forward?

Therapy is only going to be helpful if you truly want to work on finding a way through all the mess. It does sound from your posts that you are still very enmeshed in all the detail and not in a place to move on but finding that impetus might be what really helps.

Best wishes.

It doesn't sound like revenge. It sounds like he certainly had self-interest in mind when he helped your GPs one way or another, but I expect his main focus was in making money for himself (rent and increasing capital value) and not handing any more than necessary over to the tax man (especially by transferring it to them and then potentially having to pay inheritance tax when getting it back).

I completely agree with you that, had it been me, I would not have charged rent to my parents (either at all, if I could afford to buy it outright, or after any mortgage was paid if I couldn't) but I doubt I would have transferred it to them either, purely for tax considerations.

It's very mean of him not to at least split any sentimental personal possessions of their with you, though. He doesn't sound like a very nice man but, frankly, I don't think you or your GPs were quite as financially wronged by him as you may be thinking.

The emotional aspects and the denial of a role in the funeral are horrendous, and YANBU here. This is where your issue is.

However on the finances YABU. He bought the property to ensure your GPs would not have to move. If he was purchasing a property purely for investment, it is highly unlikely he would have chosen that one. Yes the property works out well over time but you have to remember the "opportunity cost"he could have spent that money on purchasing a better house for himself or a high yield investment property with much more significant returns. So you see profit, he actually sees a loss on the profit he COULD have made. It's also highly likely he bought the property with a buy to let mortgageso it was a choice between having the GPs live there paying rent, or not afford it. Basically this is a mortgage where he puts down deposit, then essentially the rent pays the repayments.

Maybe they were paying market rates, but I suspect after decades of living there they were not. Regardless I very much doubt your GPs were living in the ideal high yield investment property he would have selected. HE bought the house, not your GPs. It was purchased using HIS money. You seem to think he should have bought it to give it to your elderly GPs so they could hand a chunk over to you when they died? This doesn't make any sense.

Also, if he had gifted it to them he would likely have to pay tax on that, then pay inheritance tax when he inherited it back. Why on earth would anybody do that when he could essentially give them a lifetime interest in the property?

Also how long did your GPs live in the house when he owned it? I doubt they paid the full value of the house, they almost certainly didn't if he needed to get a mortgage for part of it.

You also seem to think that "making it possible for them to have a property to leave" should have been his first interest here. Why? This would mean (a) the property could go entirely on care costs (b) the property HE PAID FOR would then be split with other family members and (c) a load of it would go on taxes.

You're right on the emotions but your understanding of property investment is way off.

If he did purchase it outright, you don't know the conversations he had with the GPs. He may well have told them the situation--look my money is in investments now, I want to help you keep your home but I can't take a loss (especially when no inheritance coming his way). So I can help you find another private rental, OR I can ensure you stay in your home under the same terms.

Either way, it is likely that he actually lost money by buying the house rather than putting it into his preferred investment.

I agree with Flowers on the financial aspects. It would have a waste of time and money to keep transferring the property. And if your grandparents had needed care it could all have gone on that.
He might be unpleasant etc but he was sensible about the house.

@JustDontIt

It doesn't sound like revenge. It sounds like he certainly had self-interest in mind when he helped your GPs one way or another, but I expect his main focus was in making money for himself (rent and increasing capital value) and not handing any more than necessary over to the tax man (especially by transferring it to them and then potentially having to pay inheritance tax when getting it back).

I completely agree with you that, had it been me, I would not have charged rent to my parents (either at all, if I could afford to buy it outright, or after any mortgage was paid if I couldn't) but I doubt I would have transferred it to them either, purely for tax considerations.

It's very mean of him not to at least split any sentimental personal possessions of their with you, though. He doesn't sound like a very nice man but, frankly, I don't think you or your GPs were quite as financially wronged by him as you may be thinking.

Yes, I don't suppose that revenge WAS the primary goal, mainly as you say (and I believe) making money for himself, off the back of his own parents' destitution. The part of me that considers myself (as did DGP) their daughter does feel wronged in terms of inheriting --- anything at all, I am ashamed to say.

They may nnot have been seriously financally wronged - from the outside looking in - but from the inside looking out, it feels as though they and their situation were exploited as much as it was possible.

When I knew what had been done, I certainly saw him in a different light and much more alike to my father, who would not even put his hand in his pocket when it came to DGM's funeral. They apparently argued between themselves on the day of; again, something I was not told about until my father wanted to make some kind of ugly point in a letter a year or so later (his typical MO).

When the rent she paid had covered the money he had paid for the house - which was of course, increasing in value, he continued to charge her rent. Never at any point, did he consider granting her some sort of ownership of the property, in full or in part.

Yabvu and very silly.
I own a house that I rent. Am I going to sign it over to them if they stay there long enough to pay me the equivalent rent? Am I fuck!

Just a few further points:
He didn't take out a (btl) mortgage, he paid cash.
He charged them the going rate, from their pensions/some kind of benefit.
They paid rent to the full amount of the price he paid for the house.
When that had been paid, he still made her pay rent.
It increased in value nearly 100% between his paying for it and DGM dying.
"Luckily" - no paid for care was needed, as they both died whilst semmingly healthy and at home (well, DGF was actually playing Billiards).

This is with the emotion set aside.
But the rest isn't I guess.
I do agree - there is an aspect to it that feels that there could have been some kind of inheritance if a different route had been taken, and I guess I feel cheated in some ways. Especially as my father is playing games wrt his Will, and has been since he wrote to me over a decade a go, to tell me I was in it, and to "behave myself". And yet - with little contact in between he wrote ot me last year in a mood, and said he had taken me out of it. I hadn't done anything because we are Low to No Contact (for my mental well-being, and also because HE says we are Estranged....) - but he just wields an inheritance like a weapon. He has already told me that it isn't much anyway, even though he is a millionaire.

And my mother put all her money into an extension that he daughter built as granny flat onto the ex-council house that she got in a divorce. Then she (the daughter) married someone else (a woman as it happens) and they have bought a house together, so anything my mother ever had has been swallowed into a property owned by her daughter and the wife that my mother disapproves of. I know for sure she will not include me in a Will, even out of sentiment - but she too has been taken for a ride, under the guise of being "helped". The daughter only ever did things that would help her situation as the granny flat was built so that my mother could babysit while she went playing darts all over the country.

Oh, I'm off on a rant now. A sure sign that I have had the futility of my words pointed out to me.

Thank you so much all for helping me to see the bigger picture, and perspectives other than my own distorted one.
The more I write and read about my ridiculous existence, the more I wonder why I wake up and carry on.

@Grizalda

When the rent she paid had covered the money he had paid for the house - which was of course, increasing in value, he continued to charge her rent. Never at any point, did he consider granting her some sort of ownership of the property, in full or in part.

Yabvu and very silly.
I own a house that I rent. Am I going to sign it over to them if they stay there long enough to pay me the equivalent rent? Am I fuck!

We are not all the same. I assume your is 100% a business arrangement.

Just because I would have done it one way, does not mean everyone should. And certainly not if I were to be renting to a stranger. That's not what I'm talking about, and I assume you know that.

Wouldn't it be a nice world if that WAS what happened though - rather than exploiting and capitalising on others' misfortunes.....

You're still not getting the actual facts of the property investment here. Also how long did they live there? If it was a 100% increase I'm imagining either a significant time or he invested money into the property. Unless the property is a well-known high yield investment property, he would still have been better putting his money elsewhere. He would also be paying ongoing costs for it--repairs, insurance, etc. that eat up a good bit of the incomings. Respectfully, you don't know the first thing about the financial situation here and it doesn't sound like he profited from them at all.

You're sad that your grandparents couldn't leave you an inheritance. I think that this is really legitimate, when you see other people inheriting money and wonder why the world isn't fair. However, that is because of their decision not to buy a house. That has nothing to do with your uncle. You're not actually wanting an inheritance here, you are essentially wanting your uncle to give you a chunk of money. If you're in a position to get a mortgage, maybe he might be willing to help with a deposit? But it would be entirely a choice he would make, not something owed from the GPs.

And in the nicest way, you're still not understanding the very basic point that it would make ZERO sense for him to gift a house to elderly people that are going to die in the coming years. He might as well just give 30% to the government and hand the other 70% to a care home. And if the 70% didn't go to the carehome, just hand it to his brother.

This would not be generous or loving, it would be stupid.

I'm not sure I quite understand the issue.

Do you believe that some inheritance should have been granted to you, even though they didn't own the house and your GP had no finances to leave you?

It sounds like you feel you should have financially benefitted from their deaths, which I don't agree with.

Your uncle purchased the house they lived in that they rented, to avoid them being displaced in their old age. You believe he should then have signed the property over to them so that you could inherit?

Sorry, I don't agree with you op, I don't think your uncle did anything wrong.

Wouldn't it be a nice world if that WAS what happened though - rather than exploiting and capitalising on others' misfortunes.....

People who accumulate wealth often find so by exploiting others misfortunes. The amount of money made from failing businesses, debt and house repossessions for example. He turned a need into a business opportunity. What he didn’t need to do is run your face in it.

*rub

I can’t comment on the house and finances aspect, but I can totally understand your feelings about your uncle resenting you being there.

My aunt is very bitter that my Grandparents had me to look after when she had her children.

I was the youngest of 4, the youngest by a considerable way, and was taken by my GP’s when I was 7.

My Aunt’s daughter is 8 months younger than me and my aunt feels she missed out on a lot of GP time. Even though my Nana was working until she had to give it up to look after me and therefore started spending more time (way more time!) with my cousin too as we were in the same school class Aunt still feels like her child missed out.

She even asked me to apologise for it relatively recently. She’s never spoken to me since as I asked her straight out if she was asking me to apologise for being abused so badly by my parents that my GP’s rescued me.

It’s very possible your uncle feels the same.

If your DGPs were already in their late 70s when your Uncle bought the house then I struggle to believe that in the remaining years before your DGM died that she paid rent which totalled to more than the purchase price of the house (unless the house was extremely cheap or the rent was incredibly high)!!?

He sounds like a knob.. but ownership is ownership ... you can overcome him by living well without him 🌸

Also the funeral thing happened to me also.

When nana required care I was “basically her child” and therefore had the same responsibilities as my Aunt and Uncle - actually more in the end as she lived with me for four years while she had dementia.

Yet come the funeral I was “only” a grandchild and therefore allowed no say. It was also decided that no great-grandchildren would be allowed. At that point she had five GGC - my brothers children who lived abroad and wouldn’t be there, my Uncle’s three month old grandchild, and my two daughters - who were 6 and had had Nana living with them for 4 years of their lives until 2 months before she died (she went into a home as she needed 24 hour care)

Wouldn't it be a nice world if that WAS what happened though - rather than exploiting and capitalising on others' misfortunes.....

You don't know me or my circumstances. I honestly don't feel the need to justify anything to you but right now I'm not some unscrupulous career landlord
But that's not to say I'm going to hand over my hard earned assets to anyone but my children, and yes - I might move to maximise those assets in the future, I'm not sure how yet but this country will ALWAYS need rental properties.

I think your upset because you know had you know you could have helped.
Maybe a part of it is the guilty you feel.
I am sure your GP's were happy to pay the rent to have a home, and know they never had to move.
As for your uncle he treated it as an investment, and he probably did have expenses that had to be paid on the house, Your dad could have joined him and benefited but choose not to, and that is why your side of the family did not receive any benefit from the profit of the house, your uncle probably did enjoy broadcasting his good fortune, but it was never actually your money and you need to accept this.
I honestly can't see why you thing he had to stop receiving rent on a business investment and hand it over to the renters, you have to lay the blame for this with your Grandparents for not taking it as a loan instead of becoming tenants. Also for not writting wills.
It was nasty of him to not let you have any keepsakes, and you have to see your benefitted financially and emotionally from being cared for by your Grandparents, and he obviously feels his children lost something because of this.
But being upset over what might have been or could have been is now in the past, and you need to move on and shrug and accept it.

@BramStoker

If your DGPs were already in their late 70s when your Uncle bought the house then I struggle to believe that in the remaining years before your DGM died that she paid rent which totalled to more than the purchase price of the house (unless the house was extremely cheap or the rent was incredibly high)!!?

I should have said late 60s...... sorry. He paid low for the house, and it doubled in value over the c. 13 years he had it. Not because it was improved but because of what happened with property prices at the time. It has since then quadrupled, as it has been improved. He should have kept it.