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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think my Uncle was taking revenge

216 replies

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 09:58

My grandparents were life-long private renters. They never got onto the property ladder for various reasons, and there was not the stigma against renters that there is now. I grew up with them, and in that rented property - leaving when I got my career underway.

There may not have been stigma in the same way (or I was oblivious to it) but there was still insecurity...... The house was owned by an elderly lady and it happened that she (or her children) wanted to sell it. My DGPs were late 70s.

My father and my uncle are both wealthy men. My father at that time lived in I think France, my uncle quite nearby to DGPs. However, I was not informed about the situation, which happened the same year as my daughter was born. My father would never have helped them, that's a given.

My uncle took money out of his investments and purchased the house (which was a character property but unmodernised) outright. I am not sure of the terms that they arranged between them at the outset.

After four years my grandfather died quite suddenly, although he was a good age. My grandmother was left living alone there, with my uncle and aunt a mile or so away and the favourite of the cousins also not too far away.

My uncle has four children - and although he and his wife said they had wanted to adopt me when I ended up (not legally) with my father/uncle's parents - they didn't follow through, or weren't allowed possibly due to my DGP's dislike of their religious beliefs (LDS).
At some point, my uncle admitted to me that he hated the fact that his parents brought me up, as it "took away" from HIS children......
There is always an edge to my dealings with him (religion, and them being so judgemental aside) - for example; my father stood me up for my wedding (well, two day's notice) so my unlce stood in to "give me away" in - but the price was that he humiliated me and made fun of me (spitefully, not affectionately) in the "father" of the Bride speech.

So, he continued to charge my GM rent - at the going rate. When the rent she paid had covered the money he had paid for the house - which was of course, increasing in value, he continued to charge her rent. Never at any point, did he consider granting her some sort of ownership of the property, in full or in part.

So, when she died - again, suddenly - there was apparently no will. And he told me that she left me nothing, and that when he sold the house, the proceeds would be divided between HIS children......

He also did not allow me to speak at her funeral - or even travel with the hearse (almost everyone there knew that I effectively her daughter), and instead, the favourite cousin delivered a eulogy - and words that she spoke were actually carved into the headstone.
(Note, she was not my grandmother's favourite grandchild.)

And, speaking of the headstone - he delayed getting it put at the grave for over four years... I was not allowed to sort it out , because he owns the plot, apparently. Four years! In fact, nearly five...

Am I being paranoid/unreasonable to think that - although not his primary objective - the side effect of my feelings being hurt massively (and not abiding by his mother's wishes) was ahappy consequence for him, given that he hated that I displaced his children somehow?

OP posts:
MichelleScarn · 25/05/2021 16:20

Do you really think that it was OK to split that money between his children? Really?
Why not put it back into his investments......

Why on earth do you think he can't do what he wants with his own money?!

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 16:26

@Flowers500

Ok so they had the house as a rental off him for 12 years.

Firstly they did not pay the value off the house--a high yield property (which I doubt this is) would be around 7%, from which you can take all the costs such as insurance, plus consider inflation. And are you calculating that as paying the cost of the house at the point it sold, as that is more relevant? Do you think zero repairs or improvements were made in those 12 years?

Yes the house went up in value, but nowhere near as much as you seem to think it did.

You have told multiple different ages--so the grandad was 80. So they had ZERO chance of buying a house at this point as they neither had the cash nor the ability to get a mortgage. And at this point (in the nicest way) they were old and needed somewhere comfortable to live out their last few years.

Their "plan" was not your business at they clearly approached him or involved him in sorting this out. He stepped up and sorted the situation for them, they didn't need a family round robin.

I have clarified - and detailed the ages - and dates, so all that information is correct now. I am yes so dumb, that I was calculating things wrongly.

They did pay back to him the amount that he paid for the house. They paid £220 per month for compete years 1988 to 1999.
This repaid more than his "investment". The property was increasing in value without anything being done. By the time DGM died, it was worthy nearly x2 what he had paid. A good arangement for him whilst receiving over £2.5 a yearin rent as well.

He did NO improvements - and the house was not modernised when DGM died, and little work had been done. My husband decorated and did the garden (we were 20 miles away). It still had no central heating, a stone pantry and a coal house - even an air raid shelter. Maybe one window was double glazed. getting as "much" as he did is remarkable and due to the rise in prices (values).

A family Round Robin maybe DID take place - I just didn't know about it. Probably deliberately.

OP posts:
BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 25/05/2021 16:27

I mean, it's not as if he was financing some criminal deal with it.... he just gave each of his children £11-12k as a gift.

OP - The reason it stings is not because he did anything wrong, but because it was a reminder (at a sensitive time for you) that you don't have parents who are ever going to give you money or help you out. That's not your uncle's fault.

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 16:29

@MichelleScarn

*Do you really think that it was OK to split that money between his children? Really? Why not put it back into his investments......*

Why on earth do you think he can't do what he wants with his own money?!

Given how it came about - I think he was unfair - and unkind to me. And he would know full well that his mother would not have wanted me to be left out. (Did you miss the part where they were effectively my Mother and Father - and my Uncle hated (me for) that?)
OP posts:
OverByYer · 25/05/2021 16:29

You sound so angry OPand seem to be going over and over something that can’t be changed . You really need to let it go

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 25/05/2021 16:29

A family Round Robin maybe DID take place - I just didn't know about it. Probably deliberately.

Now you're inventing things to be offended by. You had a mortgage, and borrowing rates were high. There was no good reason to ask you to get involved.

It still had no central heating, a stone pantry and a coal house - even an air raid shelter. Maybe one window was double glazed.

You make it sound squalid, but in 1999 this wasn't that unusual. I was living in a house with no central heating at that time. Single glazing was fairly widespread too.

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 25/05/2021 16:31

If he had put in central heating and double glazing etc., the house would have increased in value even more. And you'd blame him for that too.

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 16:31

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

I mean, it's not as if he was financing some criminal deal with it.... he just gave each of his children £11-12k as a gift.

OP - The reason it stings is not because he did anything wrong, but because it was a reminder (at a sensitive time for you) that you don't have parents who are ever going to give you money or help you out. That's not your uncle's fault.

At risk of sounding like I am stamping my feet ..... He deliberately left me OUT - and they WERE (as good as) my parents (and by 2000, it would have been nice - if only for my own daughter... to have been thought of). My Grandmother would have hated what happened, as much as my Uncle revelled in it, I suspect.
OP posts:
JustLyra · 25/05/2021 16:33

You are lucky that you had a Nana who loved you so much. I guess the harder way of things is to loose them earlier..... You have been lucky though - but there I go, "lucky" - sigh - should luck really come into it?

Luck is a very funny term. I am lucky because my grandparents loved me enough to give me a home.
However, I only discovered that because I had such a fucked up home where violence was so commonplace that I told my teacher that father burned my brother with an iron, but not me because I was too small yet in the same way other kids told her they’d had crispy pancakes for tea.

I personally have found my relationship with every single person to be slightly "off" - and I certainly had many many isues through school - let alone, the perfect storm of my father procreating when I was sixteen, my mother showing up at the same time with another bunch of people I was expected to like by osmosis, and my DGF retiring so there was no money, scuppering my chances of pursuing more education.

Sounds similarly dysfunctional. I was bullied horribly through school. Including one lovely incident where my jaw was badly broken. Children are cruel. When they can use “even her parents don’t want her” as a taunt they can be very cruel.
My mother died when I was 14. I hadn’t seen her since I was 7, but she stayed with us for two weeks. I went to her funeral. I made different choices when my father was dying as I was an adult (which actually cost me my siblings but I don’t regret it).

You see it so perfectly - and I admire your wisdom and appreciate your compassion. Thank you. Please do not let any of what I am saying be a bother to you xx

I was lucky to find a counsellor who got it. I was desperate not to become my parents to my children and that was my driving force.

I think the focus on the house isn’t helping you. It’s a big example of not fitting in, but it’s blurred because in terms of the finances he didn’t do anything wrong by you. It sounds like it’s just one example of you feeling him making a point to put you in your place.
Are you sure you’re not using that one because you know it’s unreasonable to deflect from ones that hurt more because you know it’s not unreasonable?

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 25/05/2021 16:33

But it wasn't your grandparents money! Their wishes have nothing to do with it!

Honestly, do you not understand this at all?

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 16:34

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

A family Round Robin maybe DID take place - I just didn't know about it. Probably deliberately.

Now you're inventing things to be offended by. You had a mortgage, and borrowing rates were high. There was no good reason to ask you to get involved.

It still had no central heating, a stone pantry and a coal house - even an air raid shelter. Maybe one window was double glazed.

You make it sound squalid, but in 1999 this wasn't that unusual. I was living in a house with no central heating at that time. Single glazing was fairly widespread too.

I didn't say it was. I would have preferred them to have more comfort..... I grew up in the house and am just explaining that it was not too much changed from it's orginal, even when my Uncle had owned it for 12 years. His own house was not like that, that's for sure.
OP posts:
bigbaggyeyes · 25/05/2021 16:34

The way he engineered the house to be totally his is something of a moral issue

No it's not a moral issue at all. It wasn't your gp house! He paid market value for it and hasn't ripped anyone off.. if he paid under value it wouldn't be your go he ripped off if would have been the owner of the house.

It really does sound like you're pissed off you didn't get a house, or a % of a house when your gp died. If you wanted a house and wanted to make as much profit as your uncle did, why haven't you bought a house (buy to let mortgage) and rented it out to tenants? This is exactly what your uncle did. You could have done the same with another family/oap wtc?

MichelleScarn · 25/05/2021 16:37

Given how it came about - I think he was unfair - and unkind to me. And he would know full well that his mother would not have wanted me to be left out. left out of what? Do you think the previous landlord should give you some money from the sale to your Uncle? What income did your grandparents use to pay the rent?

bigbaggyeyes · 25/05/2021 16:37

I would have preferred them to have more comfort

Why didn't you do the upgrades for them?

tara66 · 25/05/2021 16:37

Don't forget OP that your uncle would have had to pay Capital Gains Tax on the sale of the GP's house - if he already owned one other property as well. So he did not get all the increase in value.

traintraveller · 25/05/2021 16:38

The money belonged to your uncle, it was his profit from selling his house. He didn't bring you up and chose to share his money between his children.
This wasn't your grandparents (who brought you up) money. It doesn't matter what you think they would have wanted to happen. Your uncle didn't need to give you anything.

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 25/05/2021 16:40

I would have preferred them to have more comfort.....

You could have offered to buy them a double glazed, centrally heated house. Taken the risk on the property market in the 90s (which was very different to now). And paid c. 10% interest on the mortgage for it. And charged them no rent/lower rent.

But you didn't.

OnlyInYourDreams · 25/05/2021 16:41

OP, I have no idea why this has all come up again now, but it seems fairly obvious to me that what happened here just highlighted the fact that you were actually not your grandparents’ child.

As much as they brought you up, you were their grandchild. To the extent that you were never termed to be your uncle’s sister etc, iyswim. I have an uncle who is actually my cousin who was adopted by my grandmother, and they all recognised him as their brother. You never were, and you always knew your grandparents as your grandparents. Now they’ve gone, and that hole which was in fact always in your life has just become glaringly obvious.

You say you have no idea how it came about that they brought you up other than that they didn’t want you to go into the care system. As a now adult I can see why your uncle may have resented the fact that they suddenly had a child to bring up which was the same age as his own. It’s not unheard of for adult children to resent younger siblings as they come along for the same reasons. It’s not necessarily rational but it is human.

TBH the one you should be angry with is your father. Your uncle did what he could for hhis* parents. It was his money, he was free to do with it as he saw fit, and your belief that he shouldn’t have given the proceeds to his children only comes across as bitterness and is pointless.

JustLyra · 25/05/2021 16:42

The house issue seems clear to me.

You weren’t given a place as a child or grandchild.

If you were their child then you should have been given the option to join in on the sale, but you weren’t because you were a grandchild.

If you’re the grandchild then you should have been included in the profits split with the other grandchildren because that’s what your grandparents would have wanted and it was their home.

If they’d owned it that would be entirely logical. Understandable even. They didn’t though, and even though you feel they contributed toward it legally they didn’t.

You’re letting your feeling about your place in the family get lost in the money side because it’s a quantifiable thing. You can’t measure how much someone loves you, or hates you, in many cases, but you feel you can because it feels like your uncle hates you by x amount of pounds.

I really would suggest you find a good counsellor that understands because you’re very much hiding feelings in the cash side (I did similar) and it’ll hold you back.

Happierlife · 25/05/2021 16:43

If you wanted them to have more comfort - why didn't you get your grandparents to move in with you instead of being in a house or even better, buy them a property and not charge them rent like you said your uncle should have done?

It is really unhealthy for you to hold onto all this for 20+ years. You need to find a therapist who is able to help you resolve all these feelings?

Notonthestairs · 25/05/2021 16:43

Sorry but this is all misdirected anger.

Your parents let you down appallingly. Their failure to bring you up and care for you is dreadful.

Your grandparents let you down by not explicitly providing for you - that is their failure. I'm sure the outcome was predictable and they should have acted in your interests given that nobody else would.

Your uncle is neither here nor there. You aren't his responsibility.

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 25/05/2021 16:43

If the landlord had never decided to sell up in 1988, your position would be exactly the same. Your uncle would still have invested his money somewhere (maybe in property), and got a return on it. He'd probably still have given some money to his kids. You still wouldn't have inherited a share of the house your grandparents lived in, because they'd still have been renting it.

Your uncle buying that house has had zero impact on your life, except for the significance you choose to give it.

DumbestBlonde · 25/05/2021 16:43

@bigbaggyeyes

The way he engineered the house to be totally his is something of a moral issue

No it's not a moral issue at all. It wasn't your gp house! He paid market value for it and hasn't ripped anyone off.. if he paid under value it wouldn't be your go he ripped off if would have been the owner of the house.

It really does sound like you're pissed off you didn't get a house, or a % of a house when your gp died. If you wanted a house and wanted to make as much profit as your uncle did, why haven't you bought a house (buy to let mortgage) and rented it out to tenants? This is exactly what your uncle did. You could have done the same with another family/oap wtc?

I am NOT pissed off that I didn't h=get a house. I had one at that time. I do not (despite accusations earlier) WANT to make a profit out of someone having a roof over their heads. It makes me sick to think of it.

Who does something like that to their parents, unless it is also vexatious?

For it to be someone profiting from his own parents' precarious situation makes me even more sick. That I was disregarded and disbelieved is secondary, but important to me.

He pretends to be altruistic and Godly, but he just made the most he possibly could out of them. There was absolutely NO concession made for the fact that they were his parents - elderly - and had no options. And - as a SIDE-EFFECT - pushed me out. Again, not his prmpary intention - but he could have proved it wasn't to hurt me by at least adhering to her verbal wishes (let alone - yes, a share of the house proceeds). It is NOT the way I would have done it.

OP posts:
BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 25/05/2021 16:49

I am NOT pissed off that I didn't get a house.

So why are you outraged that he divided the proceeds between his children?

steff13 · 25/05/2021 16:49

When did you find out he bought the house? Did you offer to buy it from him?