Friends’ anti-semitism

[Charmtaste]

We have known a couple for 4 years from our NCT group. We have gone to baby groups, soft play, birthdays and bbqs with them. We have never socialised with them without the kids or wider group but thought we knew them quite well. They have always been lovely. One of the couple has a high up position in the Labour Party and while we don’t support Labour this has never been an issue.

This week, while discussing the conflict in Israel/Palestine one of the couple wrote on FB that the Jews were responsible for 9/11. My husband is a non practicing Jew and we have a traditionally Jewish surname. Not that this matters. Their comments are so upsetting, I challenged them on FB asking if they were serious but they did not respond.

Here is the dilemma:
We are due to go to an NCT reunion party in a month and now I don’t want to go. I love our NCT group but I cannot imagine socialising with people who think this way.

YABU: go to the reunion
YANBU: stay away

This week has been a real wake-up call on anti-semitism for me. Click on any of the mumsnet threads on the topic of Israel/Palestine and it's all there - either thinly veiled anti-semitism or not-so-thinly veiled.

I would probably go and confront them about the post. But that wouldn't make for a very fun party!

@Thehistorygirls

This week has been a real wake-up call on anti-semitism for me. Click on any of the mumsnet threads on the topic of Israel/Palestine and it's all there - either thinly veiled anti-semitism or not-so-thinly veiled.

I would probably go and confront them about the post. But that wouldn't make for a very fun party!

I don’t agree. You can’t talk discuss the travesty of what’s happening in Gaza with out it turning in to a massive fight and the thread purposely being closed down.

It’s one of the major topics in the world at the moment - but no one can discuss it on MN because it’s deemed antisemetic just to discuss it.

I agree though it’s very eye opening.

What awful friends. Unbelievably offensive.
Anti Semitism and misogyny are the twin evils that never seem to disappear

@Badpicknic this is a thread about someone who accused Jews of being behind 9/11 FFS. Nothing to do with Gaza. This is exclusively about anti semitism. You're the only person conflating the two

OP needs to report her friend to Facebook and The Labour Party for racism although I’m pretty certain the DM are on to this now so we’ll soon find out who it is.

However, is there really a need for PP to denigrate other minorities such as black people and Pakistanis in order to make a point? That is also racist.

[quote LondonMummer]@Badpicknic this is a thread about someone who accused Jews of being behind 9/11 FFS. Nothing to do with Gaza. This is exclusively about anti semitism. You're the only person conflating the two [/quote]
Actually I was responding to some else that had brought it up. Go back a read the thread

@Badpicknic Yes, you were responding to me. And I agree that some of the conversation on mumsnet this week has been legitimate criticism of Israel. But a lot of it has also involved anti-Semitic tropes and thinly veiled racism. It is sadly impossible (as this thread too has shown) to discuss either Jews or Israel, without someone showing up and saying something deeply offensive. In a way that doesn’t tend to happen on mumsnet with other forms of racism.

Interesting that some people are very offended by the comparison to racism against black people. Racism against black people is 100% unacceptable and disgusting as pointed out here. But so is anti-semitism.
What we have here is a hierarchy of racism- anti-semitism is seen as less racist, or less important than other types of racism. Which is the entire problem we have. And the reason we have posters saying things like ' I cant get worked up about this' to a anti-semitic comment.
Everyone should read 'Jews Don't Count' to understand how anti-semitism is viewed as a less harmful type of racism then any other. And then get themselves in check and start fighting against ALL types of racism, not just the ones they feel are at the top of the racism hierarchy.

[quote Thehistorygirls]@Badpicknic Yes, you were responding to me. And I agree that some of the conversation on mumsnet this week has been legitimate criticism of Israel. But a lot of it has also involved anti-Semitic tropes and thinly veiled racism. It is sadly impossible (as this thread too has shown) to discuss either Jews or Israel, without someone showing up and saying something deeply offensive. In a way that doesn’t tend to happen on mumsnet with other forms of racism.[/quote]
Ah well I was disagreeing with a point YOU raised. Which I am allowed to do. Sorry if that offends you.

Go to the reunion but Dutch these “friends”

@Kiddangersquiff Of course you’re allowed to disagree.

And I am allowed to point out, as a Jew who has been on the receiving end of some fairly unpleasant anti-Semitic abuse this week, that you may need to educate yourself on anti-semitism a little more. As @Musication says above, David Baddiel’s book Jews Don’t Count, is a good place to start.

I would say that Badpicknic comment how you can't criticise Israel is from antisemitic category.

To unpack, we have all stereotypes in this one: Jews manipulate, Jews have power over the world, Jews are sneaky, Jews are pure evil.

You can criticise Israel's government. Many Israeli citizens managed that (black Africans, Arabs and Jews) without questioning Israel's right to exist.

Also, how is it, that people what to criticise Israel as a whole but once you say England is bad for its neighbours, most people feel uneasy.

However, how a Brit who happend to be a Jewish, is connected to Israel? How 09/11 is connected to him and his family?
Sad answer is antisemitism. You have to scratch the surface and it's there: Jews are pure evil, always in conspiracy to rule and destroy.

Those that bought the Israel/Palestine situation into this thread are anti-semitic in doing so in my opinion. Because, this thread is not about that. If you carefully read the OP it is about something else entirely.

But here we are talking about Israel again and putting British Jews in a position where they are made to feel awkward and responsible for a conflict going on several thousand miles away from their home.

In my opinion, it matters how people act, rather what they say or post on FB. It is really no difference how does an average UK resident feel about Israel/Palestine. Because what are they going to do anyway? Post a flag on FB profile, maybe go to a demonstration at best... and that's it.

@CatsArePeople

In my opinion, it matters how people act, rather what they say or post on FB. It is really no difference how does an average UK resident feel about Israel/Palestine. Because what are they going to do anyway? Post a flag on FB profile, maybe go to a demonstration at best... and that's it.

So… racist language and accusations don’t matter as long as they’re only posted on FB?

Any racist language?

Any racist language?
You should tell your friend what makes you uncomfortable. Then see if you can continue as friends from there.

As for general racism its really a minefield these days. Abuse is not acceptable. Negative feelings? You can't ban them.

In my opinion, it matters how people act, rather what they say or post on FB. It is really no difference how does an average UK resident feel about Israel/Palestine. Because what are they going to do anyway? Post a flag on FB profile, maybe go to a demonstration at best... and that's it.

But this is not about views on Israel/Palestine. It is a conspiracy theory, indeed a vile lie, about 9-11. And such conspiracy theories and libels, do make a difference. Posts on FB can be influential - maybe not just one individual post, but if posts are shared widely. Why would CambridgeAnalytica have gone to all that trouble, if FB posts never made a difference?

It’s one of the major topics in the world at the moment - but no one can discuss it on MN because it’s deemed antisemetic just to discuss it.

Lol. That must be why there have been several threads all discussing it over the past few weeks! But no, you can't talk about it - wink wink.

You should tell your friend what makes you uncomfortable. Then see if you can continue as friends from there.

Well it’s not my friend - because I have no place in my life for people who express racist sentiments, regardless of where they express them. It’s not about me being ‘uncomfortable’ - it’s about my values being incompatible with those of people who think expressing racist sentiments is reasonable behaviour.

As for general racism its really a minefield these days. Abuse is not acceptable. Negative feelings? You can't ban them.

Is anyone trying to ban feelings? How is ‘general racism’ (opposed to what? Specific antisemitism?) a ‘minefield’?

Report him, tell the other NCT members and get them to deal with it, you shouldn’t have to fight this issue - get allies to do it :( god what’s wrong with people :(

I'm sorry, what does Palestine have to do with 9/11 again?

@Thehistorygirls

This week has been a real wake-up call on anti-semitism for me. Click on any of the mumsnet threads on the topic of Israel/Palestine and it's all there - either thinly veiled anti-semitism or not-so-thinly veiled.

I would probably go and confront them about the post. But that wouldn't make for a very fun party!

Mumsnet is not a good place for Jews OR Arabs right now, tbh. Not only are there plenty of antisemites, but I've seen some disgusting comments about Palestinians. Saying they should all move to Britain and whatnot. Why the hell should they have to uproot and move to a country that hates them?