Friends’ anti-semitism

[Charmtaste]

We have known a couple for 4 years from our NCT group. We have gone to baby groups, soft play, birthdays and bbqs with them. We have never socialised with them without the kids or wider group but thought we knew them quite well. They have always been lovely. One of the couple has a high up position in the Labour Party and while we don’t support Labour this has never been an issue.

This week, while discussing the conflict in Israel/Palestine one of the couple wrote on FB that the Jews were responsible for 9/11. My husband is a non practicing Jew and we have a traditionally Jewish surname. Not that this matters. Their comments are so upsetting, I challenged them on FB asking if they were serious but they did not respond.

Here is the dilemma:
We are due to go to an NCT reunion party in a month and now I don’t want to go. I love our NCT group but I cannot imagine socialising with people who think this way.

YABU: go to the reunion
YANBU: stay away

FUCK THEM!! Sorry but anyone who said this would be out my life. No excuses.

@thelongwayhome I am so sorry. How extraordinarily shitty. It is so shocking from people that you think you know.

The fact that @grantoderek is relentlessly trying to frame the dilemma the OP raised as something entirely different to suit their own narrative is telling.

It's not as if the OP disguised the dilemma at all. She gave it a nice heading titled 'here's the dilemma', added a colon, made the YABU/YANBU choice super clear, the works.

Btw I cut a 'friend' out for similar reasons. I knew I couldn't look at her in the same way after some extreme anti-semitic things she had posted online. I'm respect people having differing opinions on political topics. But the red line was crossed on this and it was purely anti-semitic/racist.

*I don't think that Israel should have been created, it was pushed for by zionists well before WW2, I do think that the creation of Israel has inflamed the middle east situation we have today. But this is only part of it, the whole west/ middle east history is long and distressing. I don't agree with the Israeli occupation and their continued approach to the Palestinians, taking their homes,. I do agree that what we see currently is apartheid and that Israel are committing human rights atrocities.

I don't blame Jews for 9/11. I am not anti semetic, Jews are not Israel. Muslims are not Iran etc we can call out poor behaviour without being against all people in a religion.*

Do you feel the same way about the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia - all of which were built by white, mostly English, settlers, in ways that often involved literal genocide of native peoples? Do you feel the same way about all the former colonies, with borders created by imperial rulers, many of which still have major conflicts? Most notably India-Pakistan, but many others as well.

If you do feel the same way about all these countries, well, that's
fair enough I suppose, but we have to go on the basis of what is now, not what should have been in the past. If only Israel, why?

And in any case, even if you don't think Israel should exist, that doesn't mean that the state, or members of it, perpetrated 9-11! Those (Al Quaeda) who did perpetrate the act openly admitted and even boasted of it. Nor was it done mainly because of opposition to the Israeli occupation: it was an anti-American, rather than anti-Israeli, act.

How is someone being anti Semitic and saying 'The Jews' are responsible for 9/11 somehow more acceptable than racist comments about black people?

Could you point to where I said that it was? Nice try at attempting paint me as anti-semitic for thinking the OP should not be uncomfortable with challenging this head on.

So many people come on here and virtue signal about racism and anti-semitism but when they encounter it they suddenly become too shy to tackle it and hold their heads up knowing they had the courage of their convictions. Whilst people are sympathising with the OP's dilemma over a social engagement the lives of Jewish people are getting harder. Posting MN counts for nothing if you're not prepared to do the right thing when it counts.This is not meaningful activism and honestly I'm even more shocked that the OP hasn't taken really robust action now I've read more detail about the original post. I would honestly have called them, asked them to take the post down, told them how appalled I was and informed them I was reporting them to the Labour Party.

I had literally no idea you were married to a Jewish husband and strongly reject your accusation. My father was Jewish and orphaned by the holocaust. I have no Sê time t at all against Jewish people and certainly don't abuse people for their husband's race. That's just nuts. I really don't mind disliking your posting outing and volatile clues to try and get people into trouble when the police could have dealt with it it 5 minutes but don't you dare start making me into something I am not. It's deeply offensive.

grantoderek I recall your posts from a thread the other day. You were perfectly capable of empathy on that thread.
What is it about this situation that means you need to be so combative and rude?

Yes saying AQ perpetrated 9/11 because of the Israeli occupation is just a roundabout way of saying 'the Jews did it'. The primary targets for AQ at that time were the US and the Arab regimes allied with the US.

As a New Yorker it's incredibly frustrating to see 9/11 conspiracies and misinformation still so prevalent after 20 effing years. It's not just people being stupid, it's people being hateful.

find some of the posters on MN so ridiculous, I enjoy sparring with the twatty idiots. It passes the time when I'm bored at work

You sound nice.

@FOJN

You said on this thread, to someone from a Jewish family who was stressed about potentially attending an event with someone who made anti Semitic comments that you were 'perplexed' about the fact being in the room with them would be 'such a big deal.'

When I asked you if you would tell a black person you were 'perplexed' that being in the room with someone who made racist comments was 'such a big deal', you said no.

Can you genuinely not see how the logic therefore follows that you think anti Semitic comments are more acceptable than racist comments?!

OP I just came on here to offer my support. I’m a kiwi with little experience of anti semitism (or Jewish people for that matter!) but I’ve just read David Baddiel’s “Jews Don’t Count” (which to my horror my cleaner saw on my bedside and thought was some kind of racist rant - another story).

I too would vote for a third option - go to the social engagement and blank the racist bigots. (And do all the calling out / blocking / reporting etc as suggested as well).

@grantoderek

find some of the posters on MN so ridiculous, I enjoy sparring with the twatty idiots. It passes the time when I'm bored at work

Your employers are as lucky to have you as we are.

grantoderek She says right in the OP that her husband is Jewish

But sure, we're the twatty idiots

I just find the wide eyes oh me and my dilemma so irritating. It's an open and shut case. Nobody needs to hand hold. Report to Facebook and the police and move on. W
Either tackle them face to face or leave it to the police. Go to the party if you want to, don't if you don't want. Publicly shame them to the group if you want, keep schtum if you don't. But trying to drop feed clues about him being high up in the Labour party is just childish. It would be just as vile from a teacher, shop assistant, care worker, CEO, conservative MP etc.

I get it. People that you have a nice time with suddenly turn out to be people who wish ill on your child. But they don’t have horns or swastika tattoos. In the middle of the Trump presidency I said it was great he was giving people a voice to say what they had been feeling all along. Because now people that I was sure were good honourable people were saying that a lot of the time it’s slutty girls that get raped and black men are always up to something and Jews can’t be trusted and there’s not much point educating disabled people (this wasn’t all the same person). When challenged they were befuddled that I didn’t agree. And i think that’s what would have with your friends, they didn’t mean your husband, obviously he’s lovely they meant other Jews. It’s disgusting, whether you want to publicly challenge it or just ignore them is a dilemma. Especially because examining how the rest of the group feel about Jewish people might unearth some other hate. I don’t know what I’d do, I’d lean towards going, ignoring them and if it came up letting lose that they were anti-Semitic scum who needed to have a long hard look at themselves, but i am notoriously bad at making good choices. And why should it be your job to educate people who can’t think for themselves.

I would go to the party and not speak to them or acknowledge them. If they approach you to speak, tell them, loudly and clearly, that you don’t socialise with racists so please would they leave you alone. Hopefully enough people will hear you that they are ostracised.

I don’t know why racism towards Jewish people comes under a separate category, so that people treat it differently. It’s racism. Call it what it is.

Why mention the Labour Party apart from to stir up trouble? If they were racist against Muslims would it matter if they were high up in the Conservative party?

They are racist plain and simple, they have disgusting views. You called them out on it so good for you. I wouldn’t stay away from a reunion because of them, presumably you have other friends there who you would like to see. I would sever ties with them though.

And I am not a jewing. Because I am not a jew. I am Russian Orthodox technically but I don't believe in any religion. Fucking hell, what an evil person.

@grantoderek

I had literally no idea you were married to a Jewish husband

And yet in OP's first post she said "My husband is a non practicing Jew and we have a traditionally Jewish surname."

If you "enjoy sparring with twatty idiots" then maybe read at least the first post properly, so you don't look like one yourself.

@grantoderek

And I am not a jewing. Because I am not a jew. I am Russian Orthodox technically but I don't believe in any religion. Fucking hell, what an evil person.

But I thought you enjoyed “sparring with twatty idiots”? It’s how you like to pass time when bored at work.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@grantoderek

I had literally no idea you were married to a Jewish husband

And yet in OP's first post she said "My husband is a non practicing Jew and we have a traditionally Jewish surname."

If you "enjoy sparring with twatty idiots" then maybe read at least the first post properly, so you don't look like one yourself.[/quote]
I totally cannot argue with that. I didn't read it properly clearly, what a twat I am. But still no excuse to laugh at my dead Jewish dad. I wish I could speak to that person face to face. I'm shaking with rage and feel sick