Friends’ anti-semitism

[Charmtaste]

We have known a couple for 4 years from our NCT group. We have gone to baby groups, soft play, birthdays and bbqs with them. We have never socialised with them without the kids or wider group but thought we knew them quite well. They have always been lovely. One of the couple has a high up position in the Labour Party and while we don’t support Labour this has never been an issue.

This week, while discussing the conflict in Israel/Palestine one of the couple wrote on FB that the Jews were responsible for 9/11. My husband is a non practicing Jew and we have a traditionally Jewish surname. Not that this matters. Their comments are so upsetting, I challenged them on FB asking if they were serious but they did not respond.

Here is the dilemma:
We are due to go to an NCT reunion party in a month and now I don’t want to go. I love our NCT group but I cannot imagine socialising with people who think this way.

YABU: go to the reunion
YANBU: stay away

Some of the stuff on this thread, all those transparent attempts to minimise and derail etc, is best to just not engage with tbh.

Good luck with your decision OP. Completely understand why you’d want to swerve the reunion and why you’ve hesitated to report the antisemitic material on FB.

There is sparring and then there is laughing at people's dead Jewish fathers. I am so disgusted I feel sick. If that's not anti Semitic I don't know what is. I have offered MN to provide my and his birth certificates to prove that this is true in my report. Who the FUCK laughs at people's dead parents?

Oh dear.

sympathies OP, its gutting when its people you know and care about.

I'd go to the reunion if you fancy it - its not their party afterall - head high, and avoid them.

There's nothing new here - Jewish posters have experienced anti-semitism all their lives - you just challenge it or move on and never think about them in the same way again. I bet your DH is just like, 'fuck-em.'

And am I surprised they're in the Labour Party? Um is the pope Catholic?

Oh @grantoderek behave. Yes, we can all see you are the poor injured party now. Honestly you’ve really made me LOL. I feel quite cheered up. I also think it’s time you got a more intellectually stimulating job.

So much anti-semitism and minimising on this thread. Horrifying.

Imagine if the friend had posted say, ‘black people are obviously an inferior race as they all got themselves enslaved’.

Would not wanting to meet with her still perplex posters?!!

As someone stated, this thread is like a real life chapter out of Jews Don’t Count.

I'm assuming this thread will be deleted thanks to the merailing and aforementioned goady twatty sparring.

Which will mean yet again anti semitism can't be discussed properly because people are willing to deny, minimise and excuse it in a way they are less inclined to do so with racism until the conversation is entirely shut down each time.

FightingtheFoo would. You like to come back and discuss how laughing at my dead father who suffered more trauma than he could ever express because of his race is OK? Pease, seriously, let's speak about what constitutes anti semitism. Where are the boundaries of laughing about people's family? Would it be less offensive if he was Christian? No. It's literally making me feel sick to think of you sitting there laughing at my lively, damaged, traumatized dad and the life he lost.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]**@FOJN

You said on this thread, to someone from a Jewish family who was stressed about potentially attending an event with someone who made anti Semitic comments that you were 'perplexed' about the fact being in the room with them would be 'such a big deal.'

When I asked you if you would tell a black person you were 'perplexed' that being in the room with someone who made racist comments was 'such a big deal', you said no.

Can you genuinely not see how the logic therefore follows that you think anti Semitic comments are more acceptable than racist comments?![/quote]
Whenever you have a chance @FOJN (I appreciate you're probably at work or busy elsewhere) I genuinely would be interested in your thoughts on this and whether you can see how from an outsiders POV, even if your intention wasn't so, your comments are easily read as anti semitism being more acceptable than racism.

@grantoderek

There is sparring and then there is laughing at people's dead Jewish fathers. I am so disgusted I feel sick. If that's not anti Semitic I don't know what is. I have offered MN to provide my and his birth certificates to prove that this is true in my report. Who the FUCK laughs at people's dead parents?

No one has laughed at your dad.

What I have seen is you minimising someone’s concerns over racist comments and laughing about how you come on mumsnet to argue with “twatty idiots”

Hopefully you’ve learned a valuable lesson here.

Yes because laughing at people's agony iver 30 seconds of TV and someones family is the same. Lesson learned is to keep an eye out for the people who are so evil they are capable of doing this and trying to make sure they don't do it to others.

@grantoderek but then you are half Jewish it's your ethnicity, not just religion.

Honestly wtf are you talking about.

So someone can’t say anything by about your dad and Mick Jagger, but it’s ok to minimise anti-semitism. Hmmmm.

My.mum and dad had sex. They lived together for a while. Nobody really talked about his life pre UK so it wasn't a thing. He was a Christian. His first 4 years of life didn't really figure in identity.

[quote deragod]@Propagandalf

Judaism is a religion, being a Jew is ethnicity.
So it's like saying stop being black if you mind being raciali abuse.[/quote]
Really wish more people understood this and I'm not even Jewish.

Unfortunately more and more people can't be arsed to pick up a book anymore, let alone a history book.

Therefore we're all doomed to repeat it. As we have seen recently.

I am very grateful.for the deletion of that repulsive comment.

I'm sorry you're upset @grantoderek but you can't have it both ways. You made it clear you enjoy "sparring with twatty idiots" and were aggressive and negative in a goady way throughout the thread, batting away anyone who suggested you were being OTT. Maybe this is a learning experience that you also don't know what other people are going through when they are on the receiving end of your "sparring".

I never laugh at people's families or the trauma of children of the holocaust. I never mock people for their race or ethnicity. The line has been crossed and I am disgusted. To be fair, I don't see myself as a minority or religion or race which shudders abuse so this has been a teeny ti y snapshot of how It must feel to have racist abuse. The face that my father can be mocked to try and offend and upset me and his race questioned is so disgusting. I can't imagine how day to day life must be for anyone who is vulnerable to this type of abuse.

@grantoderek

I never laugh at people's families or the trauma of children of the holocaust. I never mock people for their race or ethnicity. The line has been crossed and I am disgusted. To be fair, I don't see myself as a minority or religion or race which shudders abuse so this has been a teeny ti y snapshot of how It must feel to have racist abuse. The face that my father can be mocked to try and offend and upset me and his race questioned is so disgusting. I can't imagine how day to day life must be for anyone who is vulnerable to this type of abuse.

Abuse like their people being blamed for 9/11 openly on Facebook. Please try to use this as a learning experience to see how your own tone, sparring style and casual dismissal of other people's feelings can affect them too. People who are Jewish go through this all the time, with little support from the public as it seems to be more accepted than racism. Whether you meant to or not, your posts absolutely came across as minimising the effect anti Semitic comments have on Jewish people emotionally and now you've been through a snapshot of that as you say you have, hopefully it will mean you are more mindful of how you approach the topic?

to you, OP. I'm half Jewish and have unfriended acquaintances on FB for similar, although haven't had to deal with an in-person event like this.

Some awful posters on here btw. Unfortunately there were similar attempts to derail/minimise on another recent thread about antisemitism in Britain.

I am appalled at some of the responses on this thread. The blatant anti-semitism and minimising on display here is so worrying. @Charmtaste I really feel for you and your family. You absolutely must report the vile woman with the screenshot both to the Labour party (I'm sure she would be a member given her husband is in a high up position in the party) and to the police. The more you ignore, the more you normalise anti-semitism. I'm not Jewish but I am very, very upset for what you have had to witness.

Some breathtaking anti-semitism on this thread. Op, I am Jewish. I would report this comment to the labour party and I would not attend the NCT party- and I would clearly explain why.
If you go you are allowing this to be minimised- much like many are doing on this thread.

@Propagandalf

I couldn't be worked up about this tbh.

Go to the reunion, be friends, and away from religion.

Religion is counter-productive. It causes arguments and wars.

Could you get worked up if your friend posted a racist comment against black people, possibly blaming them for a massive terrorist attack? Could you get worked up if the comment was about Pakistanis or the traveling community? Or is it just anti-semitic remarks you cant get worked up about? This kind of absolute shit is why people carry on being casually anti-semitic. You can sure as hell bet I wouldnt socialise with a supposed friend who wrote this or any other racist conspiracy theory. PS Jews are a race, not just a religion.

@ConcreteUnderpants

So much anti-semitism and minimising on this thread. Horrifying.

Imagine if the friend had posted say, ‘black people are obviously an inferior race as they all got themselves enslaved’.

Would not wanting to meet with her still perplex posters?!!

As someone stated, this thread is like a real life chapter out of Jews Don’t Count.

This post is offensive.

I think it’s a shame for you to miss out on the event and potentially deepen friendships with the rest of the group. It’s like you having to self exclude because they are so awful doesn’t seem fair. If anyone doesn’t go it should be them!