to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography? II

[Judy1234]

Continuing the previous thread - people's sexuality varies hugely and what some people think is disgusting is good fun for others. It's impossible to generalise and say XYZ practice is wrong or repugnant and I agree with the posts at the end of the other thread that porn often just reflects what people do. Obviously you pick where your own interests lie and are glad human beings are diverse.

I totally agree, i have just read a few of the final threads to this post.

(i do have some problems with porn, as i said in one of my posts and that is, is what i am watching all done with informed consent and fair?) But some issues have been raised about women only enduring certain practices to please their partners. And as xenia put it, what is good for one, is bad for another.

I LIKE bondage

I LIKE a certain amount of erotic pain, i LIKE to be whipped (really quite hard).

Anal sex hurts (sometimes it doesnt) and that is WHY i like it.

I dont do any of the above to please my partner, i do it to please ME!! Saying that, apart from the last thing, we dont tend to do it much, if ever. My partner isnt comfortable with it so we dont persue it. I like to feel overpowered and vulnerable during sex, but its just fantasy, with a man who i love and trust. That does not make me a freak and i dont feel the need to apologise for what i like sexually. For me it is about the adrenalin rush, i can get the same sort of rush pushing myself to extremes in the gym (not that i have the energy or time for gym or rampant sex these days). It is not about degrading women or anything like that, it is about giving myself totally into the sexual experience.

For some women, kinky is doing it with the light on, they might even get a real sexual thrill out of it - thats fine too.

I felt i had to post that as i do not feel that women who are reading these threads should be made to feel deviant for their sexual likings and preferences. I think it is perfectly natural. And quite frankly, if you want weird, read "the secret garden" by nancy friday, its all about womens sexual fantasies - it seems we are far more imaginative than the boys!! and then some. I mean, we are talking sex with aliens and machines etc etc. Quite a read, very funny, although ive never felt the urge to come on to ET.

Oenophile, thank you for taking the risk
and I am sorry you were shocked.
It is very much aimed at men who are looking for
wank fodder, it's crude and the language is strong.

But, more importantly, I am quite relieved that you did not come across a gang rape
which is what Elisabethh claimed this site was about..

We can talk about taste and I would agree with you
that the site makes me wince but we cannot ban bad taste!
Otherwise we would have to ban most rap & hip-hop, too.

Elisabetth, no comment from you on the gang rape?
Because there is no gang rape, is there?
And there is no arse-to-mouth or dp.

You have not pointed out how they humiliate the women
in the video. Or given examples of the 'appalling' things
they do to them.

I told you that Bang Bus shows gang rape scenarios. I don't know how I can make it any clearer than that.

I don't actually know how it's possible to have a conversation with you though DaddyJ becasue you are unable to see the degradation and woman-hatred at Bang Bros and in the rest of porn. You are obviously numb to it now. It's not sexy, it's hatred. The fact that men find hatred of women sexy is truly, truly disturbing.

(Can't believe that you started this thread Xenia but as you did I'd like to say to TMMJ that I hope you come back because you didn't deserve the hard time you got on the other thread and I'm sorry for my part in that. It was ridiculous to jump on you for what you said, whilst the extraordinary hatred and abuse of women in porn was being roundly denied by the porn defenders).

Show me, don' tell me
We know you can talk but now that we have
something specific to go on, let's see some evidence.

You mentioned gang rape.

Every single series I have clicked on contains
one man and one woman.
Where is this 'gang' that you are talking about?

Not even the one MNer who so far has clicked
and commented (negatively) has mentioned
anything to do with gangs or rape.

We are having a conversation already.

And I am happy to see your point if you'd be
kind enough to make it.

Xenia, thanks for resuming this thread.
We are not quite done yet.

ive not looked at bang bus, but i would have to say that any rape scenario is not acceptable. However that is different to a bit of bondage between consenting adults.

Agree.
Brave post btw.

ive never seen porn which portrays a hatred of women either, thankfully. Can someone bring me up to speed though, i only caught the end of the thread and i think this is an interesting area.

I haven't read anything on the other thread that gave me a hard time actually. Perhaps I just hadn't read the posts.

I would certainly agree with Lucye but also - I don't see what's wrong with doing things to please someone else anyway. I think in general in life and even in bed we're all far too keen just to do what we want all the time. We seem to have lost the moral virtue of giving to others which is surely a huge part of what loving sex is all about.

I've shown you tons of evidence. You've just ignored it because it suits you. I know you'd love to get me to look at porn but I'm not going to - you've already persuaded one woman to go to that site. It is common knowledge amongst porn users what the Bang Bus scenario is but you see fit to deny it.

After this I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts because I don't think I want to engage with a man who finds a website that features a "pussydestroyer" worth visiting or defending.

"On the video it is clear that Lori is not happy. Entner berates her until she calls him an asshole. At one point, he directs Lori to bark like a dog, and later, with Donnie in her mouth, to squeal like a pig. Lori, afraid she would end up doing all this for free, grudgingly agrees. Donnie chuckles and trades high fives with Sanchez.

She was encouraged, however, by the thought that in a couple of days she would receive her share of the $1200 she and Donnie had just earned and this crisis would be behind her. The sad truth is that in the world of reality porn the only sure thing is that you are going to get fucked. Poor Lori found this out the hard way. In a matter of hours, her images were available to anybody with Internet access and a credit card.'

www.miaminewtimes.com/2004-10-14/news/the-ride-to-perdition/1

I trust Wikipedia on the contents of porn but that's about it -

Bang Bus

"Each video consists of an actress who plays a typical everywoman who is "picked up on the street," and is then persuaded to engage in sexual intercourse with men in the back of a van - the titular Bang Bus. Each storyline usually ends with the woman being dropped off unpaid and in the wrong location, shouting at the men as they drive off laughing. The series is shot primarily in Miami, Florida, and has spawned a number of sister and imitation porn websites such as Back Seat Bangers.

The Bang Bus usually contains three men: the driver (known as Ugly in early episodes), the camera man (Greg Entner aka "Dirty Sanchez"), and an actor who plays a "random" guy who gets to engage in sexual intercourse with the woman picked off the street. Sometimes the driver and camera man will randomly pick up a man first then pick up a woman and persuade the two to have sex. In most cases, the woman is convinced to get into the van under the guise that they are making a documentary about people in the area. They offer money, usually around a couple hundred dollars, just to answer questions about their life. After some "interviewing", they usually offer more money to disrobe, and then additional money to have sex. The woman usually is persuaded to enter the van in less than 5 minutes, then persuaded to strip in 20-50 minutes (during which Entner is often verbally abusive to the woman), and is dropped off in a random location after the completion of the sex act, ostensibly without being paid."

really really sorry but i have to admit to PMSL at "pussydestroyer" i have images of naked men using thier "willys" as quasars or whaterver to shoot cats!! Sorry, but really, some of the porn titles just have me in stitches.

Elisabeth, you should have watched the secret diary of a call girl, it was quite good, this was a diary of a top class call girl who appeared to love her job. I think the trouble with the sex industry is that is forced underground which consequently results in vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I would love to be in a porn film but i have two slight problems, 1) id only "do" my DP and he isnt exactly what you call pussydestroying fodder, just average and 2) im not sure people would pay to watch me - rotfl. I do feel a bit weird discussing this in a parenting forum though as i cannot see how it affects my children as such.

So in other words you have never seen
the content on Bangbros for yourself?

After 1000 posts you admit that you don't
actually know what you are talking about.

Ok, I'll read the article now and let's see
what else we can add to this increasingly
interesting thread.

you seem to know quite alot about this liz, are you sure you are not a secret viewer? or have i missed something. Sorry, ive just got my naughty hat on tonight, i could use the stress relief, ive had a hard day

I've read her blog, it's very sad. She doesn't sound like a happy young woman.

You don't have to talk about this though LEM. Feel free not to. A lot of people are disturbed by the pornoisation of our culture, what our children (boys especially) are being exposed to and the views that gives them of women, and the level of sexual violence against women in society.

Not at my expense LEM. The stupid little digs don't impress me. Do submissives have to vent their anger elsewhere than the person who is dominating and hurting them? I sort of imagine that's how it would work.

ok well, i dont think something like bangbus would float my boat, it comes across as a little bit too "jackass" to be erotic.

I think there is a whole different ball game going on with the way women are portrayed in the media as sex objects etc, i DONT like that as it is in your face, every day. Porn is a completely different thing, chosen to be viewed by adults on the whole. There are always going to be teenage boys who want to look at wanky mags and porn on the internet, its natural curiosity, i guess that where bang bus is aimed.

okay just skimmed now but daddyj, haven t followed link yet bcs kidsstill up but really surprised at what oenophile reported and you think is straightforward vanilla

re anal, pain, etc
i absolutely do not question that there are many of us who have sub fantasies and play them out, enjoy anal, etc

But do you think that is the same thing as the abusive language and descriptions of women in general on the sites that we're talking about? As the verbal abuse of individual girls?

Sorry if that's not clear, can't be v articulate at the mo, mopping up fishfingers and chips homemade organic stew-y thing

that was sposed to be fishfingersandchips which might have been mildly amusing.

That's exactly what it is:
Jackass meets porn.
I am probably too old to appreciate it
but should I be worried about this site?

obm, let me think about your post,
still reeling from Elisabethh's confession.

It think E sees group sex as gang rape

I find it hard to believe that a woman is still thinking sex is something 'done' to the woman rather than actively being involved

Read the article and all I see is a 22 year old who couldn't resist money and would do anything. She should have thought of the consequences. The USA doesn't have as good a benefit system as we do but there is welfare for those that need it. She saw it as a quick buck and regretted it. If their practices were so abysmal, there would be many more women coming forward

im sorry if i offended you, it was not my intention. REally, i shouldnt have said that, totally out of order, i was just trying to inject a bit of humour and im truly sorry, your opinions are very valid.

I know quite alot about "submissives" as sometimes, just sometimes, at my own choice and volition, i am submissive, very submissive. I have looked at websites concerning this, and it seems that the overall trend in this area is that the submissive is often the most powerful partner in that aspect of thier relationship, you can be very manipulative from the bottom!. If that is not the case, that is something quite different, that is abuse. My partner does usually take the dominant role in bed, because im lazy! and there have been times in the past when we have experimented in this area. I can promise you i am not a downtrodden woman and my DP never hurts me, well unless you count a few light taps on the bottom with a whip hurting. There is a very big difference between this and abuse.

jackass is not porn, its shite!!!

I think onebat mother makes a very good point, and that is the one i hope i made, there is a huge difference between beind derrogatory about women in the media etc and this is outrageous and wrong. And encouraging people to refer to women as "hos" i mean FFS, is blatantly wrong. IVe not looked at any of thse sites that you are talking about so maybe i am coming at this from the wrong angle as often happens when you jump in mid debate. For instance, i have a big problem with Tomb raider type games, but i have no problem with debbie does dallas! debbie does dallas is not aimed at the masses, tomb raider is. Im not sure if thats clear

Mumsnetters lobbying for better quality porn might be a more useful activity or campaigning against the Criminal Justice bill which will render illegal husbands and wives taking consensual photographs of each other at home doing certain activities.

I think you need to not speak for me minorityrules. It's very rude. In porn sex is something that is done to a woman - she is fucked or whatever other word they want to use for it. You keep picking away at me but none of that criticism ever gets turned at pornography. What do they call it? - shooting the messenger?

As for women coming forward - most women if they have been raped or abused, feel guilty, blame themselves and are very unlikely to report it. They are probably quite clear that if it is on film and they have signed some kind of flimsy "consent" form that they'd have very little chance of achieving any kind of justice.

I see Bang Bus as predatory men who prey on very young and vulnerable women, abuse and humiiate them and then sell the results to other scumbag men making themselves plenty of profits. Marvellous for them, terrible for the women they use.

I'm so pleased that all of you can find it in your hearts to defend bangbus. At least pornography defenders are consistent - even the worst levels of misogyny are acceptable as long as it means that men get their rocks off.