To have left this child behind because of their inappropriate (for the weather) clothes

[Oilpyii]

This afternoon I’ve been asked to take a child with my children to an activity we go to regularly. It’s near the docks and involves a 20-25min walk along the waterfront. Even further inland the weather is rough here, and forecast to get wetter this afternoon. I’ve already text to the parent ‘xxx will need warmer/ drier clothes than you think, it’s always wetter and colder than you think at xxxx. Puddles are a nightmare too’

Said child has just turned up with a thin hoody, no coat, and canvas pumps. There is no issue with clothing and I know the child has numerous coats and waterproof shoes. They are affluent and have huge amounts of everything, I’ve seen their clothing.

I pointed out it’s wet/ cold and was told xxxx doesn’t want to bring a coat. I said they need one, can you pop back to get it (their house is 2-3 min from the bus stop), I’m happy to wait and the bus isn’t due for a while anyway. It was repeated they didn’t want one. The child stroppily said she wasn’t taking one.

For context I’ve struggled every time I’ve taken this child out and tend to avoid it now, as they moan about everything. How far to walk/ being wet/ bored/ hungry. This is not the kind of child that runs laughing in rain and seems unaware of cold and wet (I know a few!), this is a child that will provide misery and they go on and on about being wet or cold and then try to demand someone else’s waterproofing. Or want to turn back. Last time I saw them we met and they wore suitable footwear for a forest walk and we ended up not actually being able to walk anywhere (group meeting) and it was a drama. Another time at brownie camp they refused a coat and made it miserable for the whole pack with the fuss over and over as they froze and got soaked.

Their mums view is it’s their choice/ a lesson they can learn. (Little laugh). After a lot of back and forth I said ‘look no coat, either your mum can come or you stay at home. Get your coat if you are coming with us’. They chose to go home.

Mum is annoyed the child is missing the paid for activity (she can’t come due to another child needing a lift soon). She’s text me a cross text saying it’s for her to parent her child. My view is I have no urge to parent her child, but I refuse to put up with the inevitable moaning.

It doesn't actually sound to me like the child wanted to do the activity anyway. It sounds like the parent thought they should / would like it, maybe the child even agreed but as you say they have not enjoyed cold/ wet activities before

I think you did the right thing. I am softer though so would have told the parent to provide the coat and shoes in a backpack for the child to carry . Then they would have had them in if needed My way probably wouldn't have worked though if as I suspect the child really didn't want to go anyway but maybe felt they should

@Oceanbliss

If you make a commitment you should honour that commitment. If you don’t want to honour a commitment then don’t make it in the first place.

Helping each other out is something a lot of people do without being disrespectful. Helping someone out isn’t an excuse to treat them with less respect. Undermining a parent or a teacher in front of children is massively disrespectful and has negative consequences on children.

That is another reason why YABU. You undermined this parent in front of their child.

Insisting on suitable clothing wasn’t undermining the parent, it was probably backing her up and providing much needed support.

@00100001 That's BS. The OP should have somehow foreseen the fact that the child would refuse a coat and put a direct and clear statement about attending based on the thing she has no way of knowing will happen???

No, she does not have to foresee that the child would refuse a coat. But she does need to communicate better. Not frame a non negotiable requirement as a suggestion. Because that is misleading.

@Oilpyii I get that I’m not piling on this parent that didn’t make her child wear a coat or bring one. I get that my opinion differs from yours and many other posters. But, I really do think that you truely inconvenienced this parent and it doesn’t really matter if you disagree with the parent’s parenting methods or how they dress their child I do think you undermined this parent in front of their child by dictating to them rather than discussing your concerns respectfully. How do you know if the child was wearing thermal underwear under their light hoodie or not? Did you ask if they would be warm enough? Or ‘Are you wearing any other warm clothes under that hoodie.?’

How would you like another parent who does things differently from you treating you like that in front of your children?

Or, how would you like it if you thought you had taken on board someone’s suggestion only to find out that the person had something more specific in mind and is now chastising you for not adhering to it in front of your children? A simple misunderstanding turning into a battle of wills.

I’ve worked with families (I’m also a mum) and good communication is important. Respecting a child’s parent is also important, even when you don’t agree with that parent.

I really don’t think that you communicated well or respected this parent and I think that you owe them an apology for not being clear with your expectations and for inconveniencing the parent.

I also think that you owe the child an apology too.

@Oceanbliss

I also think that you owe the child an apology too.

"For context I’ve struggled every time I’ve taken this child out and tend to avoid it now, as they moan about everything. How far to walk/ being wet/ bored/ hungry. This is not the kind of child that runs laughing in rain and seems unaware of cold and wet (I know a few!), this is a child that will provide misery and they go on and on about being wet or cold and then try to demand someone else’s waterproofing. Or want to turn back."

No, Oceanbliss, this child is owed nothing by the OP and neither is the mother.

@Homebird8 Insisting on suitable clothing wasn’t undermining the parent, it was probably backing her up and providing much needed support.

I think the parent’s response says otherwise.
Mum is annoyed the child is missing the paid for activity (she can’t come due to another child needing a lift soon). She’s text me a cross text saying it’s for her to parent her child.

Also, if the parent decided that the outfit was ok and suitable then it is undermining that parent to disagree with their decision about their own child. Who they know best.

Also, from some of the other things the op wrote it comes across as she doesn’t like the child or their family very much. Op probably shouldn’t have agreed to take the child with her in the first place.

Did you text her back OP?

@Oceanbliss

I also think that you owe the child an apology too.

I'm sorry your being raised by someone who allows you to get away with this behaviour im sorry your mum thinks that putting a coat in a bag for the inevitable im cold whinge is somehow a violation of you right to be cold whinge and make days out difficult for everyone im sorry im not putting up with it anymore

Wow, I can't believe some of the responses on here! OP, you did nothing wrong and certainly don't owe anybody an apology. Apart from the thin coat, the shoes were totally unsuitable for muddy ground and puddles so her mum's parenting is pretty rubbish. I agree with you that if said child was a happy bunny soaked to the skin with squelchy feet then crack on, but you knew from experience that she'd whine and moan and be a general pita so your behaviour was totally right and I'd have done exactly the same. No, on reflection, I'd have said to the mum in advance that her daughter can be a real whinge bucket if she's cold and wet so please make sure she arrives with warm, waterproof etc etc. or I won't be able to take her. You've probably lost her friendship but I'm sure you can cope with that. Well done for being firm with the little tyrant.

Yes @Theunamedcat , there has been another text. She can’t have been as mortally wounded as many posters seem to think as she sent last last night a text asking if she can go with us this week, with an aside it looks like nice weather (smiley face, I can take xxx to Cubs if that helps?).
I’m annoyed as no one else goes in that direction I know of on public transport, so presuming she actually can’t take her herself again, it’s pressure to take the child or she won’t be going. It’s also hard as it’s my DDs friend and I don’t want a total rift.
I’m going to think in it how to reply. Sometimes posting on mn makes you more wound up than if you hadn’t posted and had just forgotten about the transient annoyance. I’m leaning towards though basically saying 3 kids of my own on the bus is enough and it’s just too tiring for regular extras.
Because I usually have all 3 of mine with me I rarely get offered lifts back as there’s too many of them, but I’m always the one being asked to have an extra child (I don’t find it hard or mind the kids, but the expectations annoy me and I end up feeling like a mug).

(She’s offering to take one of mine to Cubs in her text I know, but for whatever last minute drama will occur it won’t happen and has never happened).

[quote Oceanbliss]**@Homebird8 Insisting on suitable clothing wasn’t undermining the parent, it was probably backing her up and providing much needed support.

I think the parent’s response says otherwise.
Mum is annoyed the child is missing the paid for activity (she can’t come due to another child needing a lift soon). She’s text me a cross text saying it’s for her to parent her child.

Also, if the parent decided that the outfit was ok and suitable then it is undermining that parent to disagree with their decision about their own child. Who they know best.

Also, from some of the other things the op wrote it comes across as she doesn’t like the child or their family very much. Op probably shouldn’t have agreed to take the child with her in the first place.[/quote]
Well you can take the whining child out can't you? And deal with all that brings. Have fun if she catches hypothermia, because it will be entirely your fault, because you should have communicated your expectations to the parents more clearly.

The OP was not wrong.

@Oilpyii

Yes *@Theunamedcat* , there has been another text. She can’t have been as mortally wounded as many posters seem to think as she sent last last night a text asking if she can go with us this week, with an aside it looks like nice weather (smiley face, I can take xxx to Cubs if that helps?). I’m annoyed as no one else goes in that direction I know of on public transport, so presuming she actually can’t take her herself again, it’s pressure to take the child or she won’t be going. It’s also hard as it’s my DDs friend and I don’t want a total rift. I’m going to think in it how to reply. Sometimes posting on mn makes you more wound up than if you hadn’t posted and had just forgotten about the transient annoyance. I’m leaning towards though basically saying 3 kids of my own on the bus is enough and it’s just too tiring for regular extras. Because I usually have all 3 of mine with me I rarely get offered lifts back as there’s too many of them, but I’m always the one being asked to have an extra child (I don’t find it hard or mind the kids, but the expectations annoy me and I end up feeling like a mug).

Just say you'll take her if her child takes a coat. No coat. No go.

@Oilpyii

Yes *@Theunamedcat* , there has been another text. She can’t have been as mortally wounded as many posters seem to think as she sent last last night a text asking if she can go with us this week, with an aside it looks like nice weather (smiley face, I can take xxx to Cubs if that helps?). I’m annoyed as no one else goes in that direction I know of on public transport, so presuming she actually can’t take her herself again, it’s pressure to take the child or she won’t be going. It’s also hard as it’s my DDs friend and I don’t want a total rift. I’m going to think in it how to reply. Sometimes posting on mn makes you more wound up than if you hadn’t posted and had just forgotten about the transient annoyance. I’m leaning towards though basically saying 3 kids of my own on the bus is enough and it’s just too tiring for regular extras. Because I usually have all 3 of mine with me I rarely get offered lifts back as there’s too many of them, but I’m always the one being asked to have an extra child (I don’t find it hard or mind the kids, but the expectations annoy me and I end up feeling like a mug).

OP,

Don't be a mug then.

3 of your own is enough.

She is not your friend and she certainly doesn't respect you.

Her cheeky reply regarding allowing her to parent says it all.

She thinks your a mug and has treated you thus.

3 is more than enough to look after. End of.

If she is booking her child into a class she can't bring her too, she is a CF.

Don't be a mug, 3 is more than enough to care for.

She is a user.

So refreshing to read about someone that stands up for themselves and their plans . Well done op

Mother needs to get some balls.

“Sorry, no can do, I’m afraid. 3 kids on public transport is already hard work enough without adding your painfully moany kid into the mix“

Grr. Try again

“Sorry, no can do, I’m afraid. 3 kids on public transport is already hard work enough without adding your painfully moany kid into the mix “

Not if you're taking public transport, 3 is enough especially if this kid is a whinger.

I like the 'sorry, no can do, 3 kids on public transport is stressful enough'

As, I presume, you've taken herself often enough, I'd thank her for the offer of taking one to Cubs, make arrangements for it and ignore the rest.
Let her do you the favour first. Or rather, pay your favours for once.

Sounds like the child has opposition disorder perhaps which means everything will be a battle for the parents and its something they can try and mitigate perhaps but it won't be easy for anyone.

Also sounds like the child doesn't want to go and is being forced out. Never a win. Maybe the child has never been asked.

Op I always think try and be kind when it comes to dc but your absolutely right to say 3 on busses is more than enough!
I wouldn't feel happy imposing my dc into someone with three already to be honest.

Some people really are piss takers!! I would never dream of asking someone taking the bus with three children to take mine too! In what world would anyone think it's ok to do that?!

@Lweji

As, I presume, you've taken herself often enough, I'd thank her for the offer of taking one to Cubs, make arrangements for it and ignore the rest. Let her do you the favour first. Or rather, pay your favours for once.

I like this approach!