To think you can't judge someone by one mistake

[ButtonMoony]

YABU - people never change
YANBU - without all the details you shouldn't judge.

Prompted by another thread about a bloke who did prison time for punching someone. Lots of comments deciding he is a violent man and likely to be again in the future without knowing ANY fact.

Also prompted by my own experience.

Never any trouble with the police for 40 plus years. Successful business woman, PTA blah blah.

Husband left, business crashed, I had a full on mental breakdown. Crisis teams, inpatient treatment, sectioned, the works.

During a period of my life that I honestly can't remember and whilst in the depths of a depression I wouldn't wish on anyone I was convicted for drink driving.

So. Should I be judged by people for the rest of my life and deemed a threat to people as I might do it again (I won't. Sober. Re married. Back in employment) or should people consider overall circumstances before making a snap decision about someone based on one mistake.

[MapleMay11]

worriedatthemoment You've made some very good points. Maybe if it was my child in that situation rather than another family member then I would feel differently. Perhaps I do need to be more open to considering individual circumstances rather than making a blanket judgement based on my own experience.

[Rejoiningperson]

Many people have driven after drinking the night before having miscalculated how much alcohol would be out of their system. Is that really the same as actively choosing to drive knowing you've had too many? For me this is a very weak argument.

Most actions or decisions are not clearly calculated (I will go out, I will get drunk, I will drink drive) but that doesn’t make it any less of a decision. The decision is not to monitor your own drinking or to ‘chance it’ which is, unfortunately, a decision to put your own wants (to drink) and other people’s lives. Often it is not a one single time because once you’ve crossed that line to make that decision, it’s easier to do it again, unless something happens to shake you back from that.

Sorry just had to pick up on that ‘but it wasn’t a decision’ as an emotionally abusive Ex used to use that argument all the time. ‘It’s not like I purposely set out to shout, how dare you say that it’s my choice, I didn’t maliciously set about that, anyone else would be driven to shout if X happened... etc etc

So yes OP, I”m not one of the ones saying be ostracised for life. But it was your decision. And NO excuse for it - don’t bring in your personal circumstances - excusing it is like my Exes emotional abuse - he always had a ‘reason for it’ which is alarm bells for me because it says to me that as long as he thought he had a reason - he could shout and abuse.

So no one even if they’ve had their whole family die that day, is excused from drink driving. That’s an important point.

[harknesswitch]

There's grey areas for most and people feel differently depending on the circumstances. When I read the op I feel that there were mitigating circumstances and I'd not judge you. If you'd knocked over and killed my child and you were convicted of drink driving I'd feel very differently. It's why we have a justice system as it's not always black and white.

[Fairyliz]

Nope sorry to say people don’t really change.
They might soften around the edges but are basically the same inside. Eg someone done for GBH might get too old to fight, but will still be aggressive.
You for example are still trying to justify how what you did was ok, eg if it had been an hour later I wouldn’t have been over the limit, instead of accepting you were wrong.

[LolaButt]

@DrSbaitso really balanced and sensible comment.

[bornandraised]

I don't think we should be judging each other.

[Sittingonabench]

I do think people make mistakes and can learn from them in principle but I also think that the cost of that lesson sometimes will be long lasting. If your actions are reckless and result in death then the cost of that is largely paid by others. Yes you may be less reckless in future but the person who is dead and their family/friends will be paying forever so I don’t think you can say judgement is unreasonable. If no harm was caused then you are lucky and the price is less. I think it really does depend on the exact situation and consequences.

[DrSbaitso]

@bornandraised

I don't think we should be judging each other.

I think it's fine to judge risk.

[LaceyBetty]

I agree with the previous poster who said this isn't a "should" scenario. We can judge whomever we please for whatever reasons we please. That's my right and I am claiming it. I would never be with a man that I know has punched another person and I would never be with someone who has a drunk driving conviction. Those are my choices and I will not apologise for them.

[FourTeaFallOut]

Honestly, I think once you are out of your teenage years, people tend to make the same mistakes again and again in life. For some, it's changeable with a Herculean effort but I haven't got the energy or inclination to hang around and find out those rare few are.

[MrsPsmalls]

Just reading about Marc Conway at Fishermans Hall. Of course people can change.

[Crustybreadandbutter]

Yanbu in different circumstances we have and would do things we regret.
I can forgive/see the bigger picture/ move on for a lot of things.

My cousin is going to trial having been found to have

[LaceyBetty]

Nobody should live their life paying for something the law has deemed they have served their time for.

But you can't tell other people that they can't make choices for their own lives by looking at and judging the past behaviour of others. We do it all the time and I, for one, won't stop doing so and would expect it to be done to me. I would never date a man who has punched another person, ever. I would be utterly crushed and disappointed if my son ever punches anyone, but wouldn't be surprised is, as a result, he is written off by potential partners. Just as an example.

[Maggiesfarm]

I think abuse/intentional severe violence are extreme examples and it would be very difficult not to judge an abuser because we know it is often something they will go on doing.

However we were not talking about such extremes which are ingrained into a person's character.

Drinking too much at times is something many have done and stop doing.

[LaceyBetty]

Drinking too much at times is something many have done and stop doing.

But we are not talking about just drinking too much. These discussions have revolved around drinking too much and then breaking the law (assault, drunk driving etc.). Big difference.

[CuntyMcBollocks]

It depends on what the mistake is. Certain things are unforgivable.

[DrSbaitso]

Drinking too much at times is something many have done and stop doing.

It's not drinking too much that's the issue, it's drink driving.

[Vallmo47]

I haven’t had a chance to read the entire thread so apologies if this is repetitive. Just wanted to say that I do think it depends entirely on case by case circumstances. I think it’s possible to make mistakes as a young kid and act responsibly as a result of that mistake. I equally think it’s possible to bury your head in the sand and get in a vicious circle where the mistakes are repeated. In terms of drink driving for instance, if my child was killed as a result of course I’d never be able to forgive that and nor should I ever be expected to. If the person (like you) didn’t harm anyone and went on to live their life sober, of course I would judge differently. It’s just not that black or white.

I suffered a serious mental health breakdown 5 years ago and I thank my lucky stars every day that I didn’t physically attack or harm anyone but myself. I was seriously, seriously unwell to the point of being sectioned. But had I harmed someone - no, I wouldn’t expect them to ever forgive me. I would never be able to forgive myself.

Sounds like you’ve made a complete 180 OP and good on you. It’s so lovely there are people out there who are able to do this. I wish everyone was like it and not just feeding us empty words and false promises.

[osbertthesyrianhamster]

or should people consider overall circumstances before making a snap decision about someone based on one mistake.

People are entitled to establish their own boundaries about whom they choose to associate with. This does not make them bad people. And if one of those boundaries is 'convicted drink drivers are a dealbreaker' or 'I refuse to have friends who are Arsenal supporters' than that's totally acceptable.

No one has to live according to your own parameters.

[IbrahimaRedTwo]

I don't think we should be judging each other

Naive and wrong. Humans judge, all the time. We have to, if we are to keep ourselves safe. We have to judge who might be a threat and who might not. And we judge who we want to surround ourselves with.

Do you not judge sex offenders? Are you so non-judgemental that once out of prison you'd ask them to babysit? No, of course not. You judge, we all judge.

[worriedatthemoment]

@denverRegina no you never at the stage of your comment op had realised very little, you still have no idea if she even now drinks at all

[MintyMabel]

Many people have driven after drinking the night before having miscalculated how much alcohol would be out of their system. Is that really the same as actively choosing to drive knowing you've had too many?

This is why the “practically zero” limit for driving in Scotland is a really good thing. There is no guesswork or calculation, if you’ve been out the night before, you will almost certainly fail a breathalyser the next day.

But you can't tell other people that they can't make choices for their own lives by looking at and judging the past behaviour of others. We do it all the time

I can’t tell anyone what to do in any situation. Neither can you suggest that everyone does the same as you do. I don’t judge people on their past behaviours. I wouldn’t expect anyone to judge me on mine. If I were making a choice of a partner, I wouldn’t automatically assume someone who got in to a pub fight one time would make a bad partner.

My husband punched somebody once. He was very drunk and he thought someone was trying to take his wallet. In the 20 years I’ve known him, that is the only time he has come anywhere close to A) being that drunk and B) being violent. If he had told me that story had happened before I met him, I’d have been a fool to have dismissed him as a suitable partner.

[worriedatthemoment]

All those saying you have a right to judge , yes of course you do same as we have the right to think that those who judge are in correct.
There is no right or wrong answer as we all have different ideas and like I have said we may have a different thought if the person is a close family member who does get a conviction etc , and a totally different viewpoint if we are a victim.
I also think though as said before a vast majority on here will likely to have driven over the speed limit at least once , even if only a few miles
Most of the time we spot and slow down but if we were to have an accident then suddenly that couple miles could be a dangerous driving conviction or worse.
So for me personally before judging I would like to have the whole story in front of me and I also know I would find it easier to forgive a close family member than I would a stranger

[denverRegina]

@worriedatthemoment whether she drinks or not currently is irrelevant. Not sure why you're still talking about this as you've clearly very little idea about risk assessment

[MrsJackSpratt]

I wasn't expecting such lovely support here. Thank you so much.

I have a lot more thinking and investigating to do