Suddenly so angry - being shouted at and leered at just going for a walk with my DD

[slipperandtherose]

Suddenly so angry - being shouted at and leered at just going for a walk with my DD.
Just that.... My DD is 16, during the last year we have started walking together. One of our walks is along a fairly busy road in the evening. Every walk, cars will go by and beep, sometimes men shout out.... even had middle aged men turn their interior light on and drive past slowly.
It's really intimidating and has made us physIcally jump at times.
This is putting my daughter off going for walks on her own.
I realised that women and girls have been putting up with this level of intimidation since we became teenagers. We've had to put up with this...
Also I have had really arrogant reactions from all ages of men in cars, where they make a point of swearing / slowing up / shouting ... when they feel you haven't let them through etc... Would they have had this reaction if I was a man? Probably not...
There is low level misogyny just in the most normal everyday activities, and it's suddenly making me really cross, probably because I can see how it affects my DD.
AIBU to suggest that there should be some sort of addition to PSHE teachings in schools that includes the awareness of what is not okay in a civilised society, because there are still too many young men that don't seem to know that this is wrong?

[deedsnotwords11]

That is horrific I'm so sorry that your dd is already having to deal with it. It makes me so angry what we go through right from being children!
I agree with you, the problem is how men view women and porn culture etc probably has a lot to do with it.
The thing that really creeps me out is that these men will be brothers, fathers, sons, friends of women and girls and they still behave this way. It's chilling.

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

YANBU and I'm so sorry you and your DD have to put up with this shit. I think things are getting worse for women and girls, not better. There's so many answers as to the solution in stopping this and yes education from a young age is a big factor. I teach PSHE to teenagers and we do cover sexual harassment and how it makes people feel, and why it's wrong. I seem to get a good understanding in the classroom, yet this kind of behaviour is still so prevalent and happens in school too. IMO it's too little too late teaching it to some teens.

My advice

• don't stop taking this route. Don't teach your daughter it's a problem for women to fix
• continue to call men out on it and model that behaviour - men who do this deserve to be shamed. Don't be afraid of retaliation
• speak to her often about this subject and explain it's not ok. Ask her how things are with the boys at school, talk about how she can stick up for herself

And just to warn you, the Not All Men crowd will be along soon expressing total disgust that you want boys to be taught not to harass women, and would rather this continued than any man be pulled up on their behaviour. The MRA's are completely rampant on MN at the minute, in fact I could probably tell you the usernames of the ones who'll come on crying NAMALT.

[Littlefluffyclouds13]

It's hideous isn't it?
Dd & I have the same. I mostly feel like challenging it and sometimes do but then I worry I'm putting us in danger.
Tuesday was horrific as dd was wearing a cropped top because the weather was warm, obviously that's an open invitation for men of all ages to leer at her

What's the solution? I don't know, I mostly despair but I have a ds and he has been raised by myself and a dh who is as horrified as me by the way other men behave.
Educate your sons!!!

[prettypinkflamingo]

That would make me so angry. I'd probably be discreetly filming the walk and the men and putting it on a local Facebook page to shame them, but that's just me!

[slipperandtherose]

Thank you both great advice and responses. You actually teach sexual harassment in PSHE which is enlightening...
We do fear retribution, and I'm even angry at myself for that...
Many of these men are middle aged men... they probably have daughters... sisters... it is so appalling. When it is dark it heightens the anxiety...
I have a son who I genuinely know would not behave like this because he knows it's wrong and thankfully he also has no desire to make women and girls feel intimidated...

[HugeAckmansWife]

YANBU for being annoyed but a) we do already teach both explicitly and implicitly in PHSE about respect, boundaries, all the things you mention and b) surely this should be in the same category as normal manners and basically human decency that should be taught at home as part of parenting? An awful lot if what gets taught in a classroom does not translate in real life.. Years ago, I would teach the 'anti smoking' shtick. They'd all make great posters about how bad it was, watch all the images of horrible teeth and lung cancer patients, then get caught smoking at lunchtime. It needs to be completely socially unacceptable, not just what your boring middle aged teacher says.

[maddening]

I would video a few walks and then put the highlights of this behaviours on the local Facebook.

[Sassypants82]

I'm a 38yr old other of 3 and this is exactly what put me off taking walks during my lunchtime WFH. It was so intimidating and made me so angry and hopeless and sad on behalf of my daughter.

[CuthbertDibbleandGrubb]

Take registration numbers down of the car of any man who catcalls or makes inappropriate remarks and report to the police via the 101 number.

YANBU to suggest education is part of the answer. Another would be having no more misogynistic Prime Ministers such as the current one.

[littleburn]

I'd also be very tempted to film it and take down number plates.

[Littlefluffyclouds13]

@Macncheeseballs

Teenagers wearing crop tops will always draw attention, it may not be right but that ain't gonna change. People, both men and women, look at flesh, subconsciously or overtly

Wow. I'm staggered to read this.

These were not discreet glances. Middle aged men openly leering. Groups of young men whistling etc
And you think that's to be expected? That my daughter just needs to expect this if she shows a little flesh on a hot day?
The local park was full of men with their tops off on the same day, guess what? Dd and I managed to contain ourselves and not shout lewd comments as we walked past!

My son, husband, father etc would not behave that way, they have been raised to respect women.

[mamas12]

Yep film them
Or photograph them then report them on fb and police
Wish there was an equivalent of the speed camera to capture their abuse which automatically would fine them

[Littlefluffyclouds13]

@Shimmyshimmycocobop I mentioned a crop top and I know, what an awful example of victim blaming!!! I despair.

[Onlinedilema]

I agree with naming and shaming. Call them out on FB who the hell wants to employ that type of sick bastard or have them in their house doing maintenance. This behaviour needs to be called out every single time. A friend of mine's dd had an incident and basically her dad reported the man to his employer, he was sacked the same day. That's the best way to deal with it, but then where it hurts.

[ancientgran]

I grew up in an area renowned as "The Vice Area" of my city. I learned early to ignore it, I get accused of ignoring friends if they wave from cars, I just don't register it, never look in a car. It never stopped me doing anything.

The thing that did annoy me was other people's reaction to where I lived, how terrible to live in such an area. I used to point out it was men like their husbands/fathers/brothers who were cruising the area, the posh cars showed that and I worked it out early but confirmed when I worked with the local vice squad when I was older.

[Onlinedilema]

Hit them where it hurts.

[picknmix1984]

@Littlefluffyclouds13 I hope you're not a woman. Because if you are you're a pretty poor specimen!

My daughter has panic attacks. She has been out with friends multiple times where men have slowed down, shouted observe things. It's all contributed to her now suffering from agoraphobia. Some men ( and women) disgust me at the moment!

[Littlefluffyclouds13]

[quote picknmix1984]@Littlefluffyclouds13 I hope you're not a woman. Because if you are you're a pretty poor specimen!

My daughter has panic attacks. She has been out with friends multiple times where men have slowed down, shouted observe things. It's all contributed to her now suffering from agoraphobia. Some men ( and women) disgust me at the moment! [/quote]
I think you may have misread my comment?!
Yes, I am a woman, please read the multiple comments I've made on this thread!

[Woolff]

Why and how is it up to schools to tackle every problem society has?

As if pshe lessons are going to change the behaviour of the creeps currently driving around as you describe.

[Midlifelady]

Of course someone passes or drives by a person they may think is attractive. But that's it - they think it. They don't have to then intimidate that person (surely they don't think the person is taking it as a compliment - maybe they do think that).
This may explain why my 15 year old daughter invariably wears hoodies and jeans, makes sure her school skirt is definitely on her knee, and rarely makes eye contact when out.

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

Less than 25 posts and we have one victim blamed and two minimising the problem. How lovely

[OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow]

@Macncheeseballs

Teenagers wearing crop tops will always draw attention, it may not be right but that ain't gonna change. People, both men and women, look at flesh, subconsciously or overtly

Oh knob off, women get leered at when dressed in whatever. It’s the excuse for “modest” dress-but men still bloody do it, but aye blame women.
I’ve had similar with my dd for ages. I was out with her pre lockdown and she got catcalled in the road by young men in a car whilst I was in a shop. Unfortunately for them I recognised them as going to the school I teach in, so there was a “robust” conversation with me and the head of 6th form next day.