I actually think my sister is a narcissistic and it's causing issues with family childcare

[digitalnative]

So apologises for the long message I have a DD 2 years old

When Covid came along I bubbled up with my mum re childcare as I work full time I split with DD dad while I was pregnant but remain friendly and both of us have new partners.

My mum looks after my DD two days a week which is so helpful as nursery costs are unreal and my ex although we get on well pays the bare min re maintaince when he pays and sees her on off.

My sister had a baby last July and has made it pretty clear that she doesn't think my mum can cope with both kids so has asked me to put my DD more days in nursery as she doesn't want to pay for nursery or any type of paid childcare (I already pay for 3 days nursery on my own) . Did I mention that her hubby earns about 100k a year and they live in a massive massive house, go on 4 long haul holidays (pre Covid a year) and she makes about 32k a year so total house income of 132k. I live in a 3 bed house and money is well not tight but I have to budget heavily or I'm in there red at end of month. My new partner is Self employed and makes about 16k a year and I make 40k, I wouldn't ask him to drop a day off work for his step daughter (although he would) because of loss of money.

I feared tell her I got a new job as it would mean I'm making more than her (and boy did she kick off) so my pay is a issue as I'm the younger sister and she mention it at every opportunity that I make more than her, but fluffs when asked how much she makes so I suspect it's probably higher than the above.

Mums not old and is more than willing to help with the kids, bar the fact my sister comes over with her baby on days mum has my daughter and basically expects to be waited on hand and foot (she's on mat leave) and makes it so my daughter is ignored all day and tells me that my normally placid daughter is basically a demon (she's no angel but never had any issues and DD loves the baby and always v gentle as she's a shy thing) and my sister seems to stoke the jealousy element and revel in it and I have seen it in action and it's horrible 😞 even my mums like yes that's not right after but never in the moment.

The thing is my therapist said in no uncertain terms my sister is a narcissist, and if you look up online she fits the bill to a T. She was pretty hideous growing up with tbh, hiting, stealing lying you name it I was on the receiving end. Problem is because she yells and screams and loses her shti my mum used to back down and approaches me as I'm the reasonable one so I always used to lose out (as a child my birthdays were a nightmare as she would literally kick off- so I wasn't allowed parties) . In fairness to my mum she's now trying to tackle my sister and after 34 years of it always being her way she's really doubling down.

I have known this was looming for a while, my sister makes my mum drive a hour to her house to look after the baby and keeps saying get me to put DD in nursery so you can come stay the night and do the nightshift for me (she's on mat leave and her hubby does 50% of the night feeds) and I need the cover to you know work and she's on mat leave 😞😞

My mums happy to have my sisters dd on days she has my dd just as long as my sister is working and not just wanting a break feom being a parent.

I feel like I'm being gas lighted. She's now pushing for my mum to stop having DD and start having her DD as she literally will not pay for nursery fees as it's only fair "she gets her turn" and money is so tight for them 🙄

Thing is we grew up on the poverty line and I remember what it's like to really struggle so I'm not gonna sit here and say we are poor but rn I have a lot of bills that come out (don't buy a house in a housing market bubble is all I'm saying) and nursery is killing me along with a lot of student debt and other debts DD father left me with 😒

I feel like I have to justify if I go shopping for nesscary clothes for DD, get my hair done or buy anything as my sister will say see mum she's rolling in it about you getting her to put DD in nursery for more days

Has anyone successfully dealt with narisctic family member ? The only stuff online is to cut them off which my mum begs me not to do to my sister as she's "never going to be happy or contented"
And do I sound like a hideous person for every now and then just wanting to do just that.

Mums staying strong for the moment but is making mum Uber guilty and my sister want to talk about "getting the childcare issue sorted out" before she goes back to work. She got the days which mum will cover and I'm not sure what she thinks she will achieve with me.

This is starting to make me feel v low. Doesn't help that I had a late stage MC and my baby would have been born a week after my sisters baby.. and that often gets rubbed in my face saying it was probably for the best of I can't provide for my current DD 😞

Honestly sounds like a lot of what she says stems from your mum making similar points to her, but from your mum’s perspective, so that’s why they scramble a bit in translation.

Think your mum plays you off against one another a lot more than you realise.

@MiniMork

Honestly sounds like a lot of what she says stems from your mum making similar points to her, but from your mum’s perspective, so that’s why they scramble a bit in translation.

Think your mum plays you off against one another a lot more than you realise.

I think your right.

I think it's easy to hide behind DS being who she is, to hide her own tendencies.

Now looking at NC with both. 😭

Quite possibly your Mum wanted you to make the decision to put DD in full time nursery so it would all be your fault as your sister would not be happy whatever outcome.

BUT - see your sister has said the truth, she wanted your Mum to choose her and her DD as being the most important and put you in your place which in her mind is way down beneath her and her DC.

Stepping away is the only sane thing to do.

Don’t ever take a call from that woman again.

Block her on everything

And don’t discuss anything with your mother again, be grey rock, be boring

Let them go

OP, this is such a shit situation but I agree that it sounds like your mum is playing you both in order to not have to stand up to her. Asides your DS' quite frankly disgusting behaviour, MH issues or not, I would also be got NC with both of them. Leave them to toxicate each other.

And CPTSD is multiple trauma events, I have it from years of abuse as a child.

Listen to me on this.

If EVER anyone shouts at you on the phone.

Hang up.

Every. Single. Time.

Doesn’t matter who it is, hang up.

Hi digitalnative
Sorry to only get back to you now. To answer your questions my sister and I went through about 10 years of speaking on and off..
I'd be told I was unreasonable to just let it go,she's my only sibling blah blah. The more I complained about that she did the more my parents told me to calm down and leave it.

It started to ruin me. She always had some sort of hold over my life and allowance to do it.

I always had to understand,I always had to forgive,smile and nod.

That leaked into my life outside my family and I let others do what they wanted to me to. Learned behaviour. I couldn't do it anymore it was so unhealthy.

The last fight was enough. My parents saw I was done,tried all I could with my sister...they accept their children dont speak now . We are 34 and 38.

We are around each other sometimes at my parents house but we blank each other completely..I'm just there to see my niece and nephews.

That's where it stings a bit because she and I dont speak,I can't just rock up and take the kids out or have them over when I want but I still have a great relationship with them.

Please please please look up Dr Ramani on YouTube. She is a fantastic.
Clinical psychologist who specialises in all things narcissist related. I have learned so much from her.

Spend some time going through her videos.

It wasn't until I found her videos that I finally understood what was happening in my family.

@digitalnative

update

Since this thread won't die I thought I would update you all.

I have said to DM/ DS I will put DD in full time nursery to help (with the side benefits of keeping my sanity and DD safe - not that I said that)

DS is livid. From my understandings her very loud yelling. If your wondering why I answered - I'm not actually sure 🥴 kinda thought she would be happy

Her points that I got that were lucid

• it's not for me to make that type of decision to put DD in nursery ( ?) and I was acting above my station
• she said now people will think that she's selfish and she doesn't like that ( I did at this point say no it was my choice to try and help as I know it's tough being working mum - she reverted to point 1 again but no explaining why)
• thinks mum should have made the call as she believes I need to be out in my place and of course her DD should come first and she wants mum to say this in black and white so no mistake 🥴

- I must have a secret money pot to be able to do this that I'm "hiding" and she want to know details (grey rocked this one)

Rounded off for the call with the message that she couldn't imagine putting her daughter into childcare because why have a child when for a stranger to raise her 🤯 and mention my lost baby again 😞 to drill home the point of - I am awful mother and I should apologise to her and mum for even putting mum in this situation.

So I'm going from the above call being from low contact to NC with both because she's furious and I actually doubt that she hasn't gotten this wound up on her own..even with her own challenges she has.

Its about her being in control and being able to tell you what to do and being free to pick on your daughter. Not the childcare.

It never was about the childcare.

Honestly just do your own thing and ignore, ignore, ignore.

She probably will turn up on your doorstep. At which point its ask to leave, police, flag as harassment.

Do not engage

Its about her being in control
That's always what it is.
They just want control.

She doesn't want anything resolved. She just wants control.

She said now people will think that she's selfish and she doesn't like that

It infuriates her that someone might think freely with their own mind about her. She desperately wants to control other people and their opinions of her.

Your life will constantly be like this whilst she's in it .
AND every time she gets a whiff of your happiness or something good happens to you in life, she will be there causing shit,trying to get what she feels she deserves...anything that anyone else gets and more.
I'm sorry op,no good can come of a relationship with her unless she's had some intense therapy.

She sounds like my sister (no D about her.)

I cut her out years ago. Best thing I ever did. Your sis sounds utterly poisonous and you really need to get away from her. Keep her away from your DD also, she will be equally poisonous to her. The remark about your miscarriage is utterly unforgivable. Don't feel guilty about cutting her off.

so sorry for your loss.

Thats just one video on siblings in particular op, but you will find some fantastic information there on how to deal with going no contact or low contact.

The thing with your mum is that she’s painting herself as the victim in this, just like your sister is. She isn’t the victim - she’s created the monster and she needs to say no. Instead she’s let you get the shitstorm and enabled this at every turn. You’re quite right to step away from both of them. If your mum had, as some people have suggested, firmly said that you were each getting one day only, that would have put an end to the carry on. If she’d said no, I won’t make OP put her kid in nursery, I’ll do two days each, that would have stopped it too. But no, she said nothing at all. My mother might possibly have trouble dealing if my sister and I fell out badly, but you know what would never happen - I would never worry she would let a child be treated badly by either of us. Your mum can’t even be trusted to defend a child. And if she heard one of us make that miscarriage comment to the other the one who’d said it wouldn’t be in one piece afterwards!

OP, this keeps getting more concerning. Your sister is openly expressing how her image is her priority. When these people see their image threatened their behaviour escalates. I know this first hand. I think as a comfort you should get your door bolted etc, even if nothing ends up happening. And yes, if your sister turns up at your house in a rage again please call the police. She is unraveling, unpredictable and certainly more than prepared to give herself permission to harm you and your daughter because she probably thinks you deserve it and she’s not to blame. Triangulation was previously raised in this thread and now it looks like other PPs have also linked your mother’s behaviour to your father’s alcoholism - it’s impossible to know if one is the cause of the other or if both parents are inherently toxic to begin with. What is clear is you’ve started protecting yourself and your daughter - this is the most important thing you can do. I hope this phase is a short one and NC makes them back off.

I think that’s the right move and a brave one. Your S may up the anti a bit, they hate rejection (how dare you?) more than anything and the lack of supply (your energy) - but a fire can only burn for so long without fuel, give her nothing. Also be prepared that your Mum may pile on the guilt.
It’s very clear from everything you say, you are loving role model for your daughters and you can make sure the cycle ends here. It’s the best and most rewarding thing we can do.

In terms of advice I also find Melanie Tonia Evans very good on narcissism generally, her explanations are great, but I also like the fact that she makes you turn inwards and look at how to heal yourself.

@digitalnative

So couple of things, my sister went and found the job description of the job and pay banding that I subquently got (and currently employed by) and found out my salary band that way. But told me after the fact. I try to keep visibility of my money v low key. I wish I was joking on this front.

Your spot on though my dad was a high functioning alcoholic who had stayed sober until I was born (which my sister holds against me and my mum) - me for being born and my mum for believing he wouldn't return to the drink (he did v well 6 years sober which is the age gap between me and my sister). He's now passed but started drinking upon my birth. My sister was the golden girl and daddy's princess so I'm well aware she blames me for his drinking starting up. I think it's part environment and part genetics, thing is if you don't set boundaries with your kids at a young age, they grow up to be hideous. It is classed abs personality disorder which I realise isn't her fault but when your always on receiving end of it, it doesn't make it easier.

My mum took a long while to recover from my father and endulged my sister as she grieved more at his passing (I'm going to sound crude but he wasn't a kind man to me) so out grieve scales are different.

Mums got a really strong bond with DD and I think that's what's stopping her from caving to my sister but my sister is pushing her to the brink (much like my father).

It's maddness as she's said she will happily have both of them two days but my sister wants all the days or to at least take away that bound my mum has with my DD

Surely I can't be only one dealing with someone like this ? I have had to go into therapy because it's like being in a abusive relationship with someone without being able to leave !!

You are allowed to leave. You just need to be strong enough to do it

I’m sorry. Your family has failed you

Its going be hard to start with, it takes practice.
Keep your door locked, & don't answer the phone to either of them.
park your car somewhere else where she can' t scratch it or put a stone through the windscreen.
She is going to be spitting nails. in spite of actually having achieved what she wanted.
The final parting line could be, "I am putting DD in childcare, so she is safe from you & how I pay for it is none of your business."
Block her on all Social Media , & your Mother too as she will just show your posts to S anyway.

I am so sorry but you need to get away from both of them as you can't trust either of them not to hurt you/your daughter mindlessly and on a whim as a sport at every opportunity. Who knows what diagnosis could be made on your mother by people in the know, but she is not treating you as the mother you deserve.

You owe them nothing but they have conditioned you otherwise for years. I don't actually understand why you feel sorry for your sister, but you do and its results are to to your detriment and allows her to escalate whenever she likes and get away with it.

It is what it is, she is who she is and you need to get away to the peaceful life you deserve.

Just don't understand all the shitty remarks aimed at you on this thread. Fuck off all narcs who appear to be trying to upset you, just because they can...

Block them.

They especially your sister will try to call you from other numbers. Do not answer.

Don’t answer unknown numbers, and if you do recognize the number e.g. other relations etc, don’t answer and call them back later.

If you do mistakenly answer some number and it’s one of them, just put the phone down.

@digitalnative I could have written your post and can relate to everything you’ve said. I’ll not go into details as it’s too outing and I’m sure that they’re on here. All I’ll say is that we’ve cut contact totally and its been the only way to remove the toxicity from our lives. It was tough on my mum to start with and for the first couple of years she tried so hard to fabricate situations where we’d have to see each other or communicate. I had to tell her repeatedly that I didn’t want them in our lives (in my case it was a narc brother and his equally narc wife, they’re made for each other) She has sigfered more than anyone in the family and it truly has broken her heart but she knows now why we did it after they’ve created so much drama and heartache for her independent of any contact with us so we really can’t get drawn in or blamed in anyway. Much like yourself I’m the one who she knows is reasonable and patient and measured so for years was expected to eat their shit because she knew I’d never fall out with her. That caused tension and resentment but once we’d Mede a clean break and I’d explained to her how I’d felt for years being taken for granted and having to go along with her go moving in to their unreasonable demands she finally got it. She still maintains a relationship with them, but is guarded and walks on eggshells for fear of being verbally abused, but off from her grandchildren for periods of time and generally disrespected and openly vilified. Her choice and I support her in it and am here for her to pick up the pieces when it goes tits up (which it has done frequently) BUT I have strong boundaries now. She knows if I invite her to out house for lunch am she can’t mention it to them as they’re miraculously have an emergency half an hour before hand that means she needs to go and support/help them (ie. prove that she loves them more than me in their twisted heads / hurt me or whatever) and she knows not to give them ANY information about our lives / children’s lives no matter how much ‘digging’ she gets.
I live in dread of the day she passes as I’ll have to see them to sort out her affairs, but we’ve had years of peace with out them poisoning our lives so I guess I’ll just have to take that one on the chin.

Sorry for typos I dropped my phone so the screens cracked and it makes it interesting typing!

@Hexinthecity

Have your mother write a will nominating a solicitor as executor.
Solicitor will do all going in between so you don’t have to contact your brother.
It’ll be money well spent.

@Bonheurdupasse yes agreed, I’ve spoken to her about it as currently she has a family member as executor who doesn’t want to do it as they’ve now destroyed the relationship with that family member and their immediate relatives as well. It’s very sad really

Make sure you let nursery know what is happening and that your sister should never be allowed to collect your dd under any circumstances nor should they give her any information. Maybe set up a password or something. You are/have removed your dd from a position where she has power over her - she is unlikely to take this easily nd without retaliation.