I actually think my sister is a narcissistic and it's causing issues with family childcare

[digitalnative]

So apologises for the long message I have a DD 2 years old

When Covid came along I bubbled up with my mum re childcare as I work full time I split with DD dad while I was pregnant but remain friendly and both of us have new partners.

My mum looks after my DD two days a week which is so helpful as nursery costs are unreal and my ex although we get on well pays the bare min re maintaince when he pays and sees her on off.

My sister had a baby last July and has made it pretty clear that she doesn't think my mum can cope with both kids so has asked me to put my DD more days in nursery as she doesn't want to pay for nursery or any type of paid childcare (I already pay for 3 days nursery on my own) . Did I mention that her hubby earns about 100k a year and they live in a massive massive house, go on 4 long haul holidays (pre Covid a year) and she makes about 32k a year so total house income of 132k. I live in a 3 bed house and money is well not tight but I have to budget heavily or I'm in there red at end of month. My new partner is Self employed and makes about 16k a year and I make 40k, I wouldn't ask him to drop a day off work for his step daughter (although he would) because of loss of money.

I feared tell her I got a new job as it would mean I'm making more than her (and boy did she kick off) so my pay is a issue as I'm the younger sister and she mention it at every opportunity that I make more than her, but fluffs when asked how much she makes so I suspect it's probably higher than the above.

Mums not old and is more than willing to help with the kids, bar the fact my sister comes over with her baby on days mum has my daughter and basically expects to be waited on hand and foot (she's on mat leave) and makes it so my daughter is ignored all day and tells me that my normally placid daughter is basically a demon (she's no angel but never had any issues and DD loves the baby and always v gentle as she's a shy thing) and my sister seems to stoke the jealousy element and revel in it and I have seen it in action and it's horrible 😞 even my mums like yes that's not right after but never in the moment.

The thing is my therapist said in no uncertain terms my sister is a narcissist, and if you look up online she fits the bill to a T. She was pretty hideous growing up with tbh, hiting, stealing lying you name it I was on the receiving end. Problem is because she yells and screams and loses her shti my mum used to back down and approaches me as I'm the reasonable one so I always used to lose out (as a child my birthdays were a nightmare as she would literally kick off- so I wasn't allowed parties) . In fairness to my mum she's now trying to tackle my sister and after 34 years of it always being her way she's really doubling down.

I have known this was looming for a while, my sister makes my mum drive a hour to her house to look after the baby and keeps saying get me to put DD in nursery so you can come stay the night and do the nightshift for me (she's on mat leave and her hubby does 50% of the night feeds) and I need the cover to you know work and she's on mat leave 😞😞

My mums happy to have my sisters dd on days she has my dd just as long as my sister is working and not just wanting a break feom being a parent.

I feel like I'm being gas lighted. She's now pushing for my mum to stop having DD and start having her DD as she literally will not pay for nursery fees as it's only fair "she gets her turn" and money is so tight for them 🙄

Thing is we grew up on the poverty line and I remember what it's like to really struggle so I'm not gonna sit here and say we are poor but rn I have a lot of bills that come out (don't buy a house in a housing market bubble is all I'm saying) and nursery is killing me along with a lot of student debt and other debts DD father left me with 😒

I feel like I have to justify if I go shopping for nesscary clothes for DD, get my hair done or buy anything as my sister will say see mum she's rolling in it about you getting her to put DD in nursery for more days

Has anyone successfully dealt with narisctic family member ? The only stuff online is to cut them off which my mum begs me not to do to my sister as she's "never going to be happy or contented"
And do I sound like a hideous person for every now and then just wanting to do just that.

Mums staying strong for the moment but is making mum Uber guilty and my sister want to talk about "getting the childcare issue sorted out" before she goes back to work. She got the days which mum will cover and I'm not sure what she thinks she will achieve with me.

This is starting to make me feel v low. Doesn't help that I had a late stage MC and my baby would have been born a week after my sisters baby.. and that often gets rubbed in my face saying it was probably for the best of I can't provide for my current DD 😞

@sillysmiles

Doesn't help that I had a late stage MC and my baby would have been born a week after my sisters baby.. and that often gets rubbed in my face saying it was probably for the best of I can't provide for my current DD

I have no help re your sister/childcare, but that's horrific and I hope you are taking care of yourself.

Thank you 💓💓💓 she was such a beautiful little baby xxx

Exactly this, and actually it sounds like you are the one with the issues, not your sister*

I'll honestly never understand some posters on Mumsnet. How did you come to this conclusion? If you've read some of the vile things the sister has said and done to the OP and you think that's ok, then I think it's very worrying that you think it's 'normal'. Talk me through it how you reached your conclusion please.

Few people have mentioned my mum triangulation , now I will say that she's suffered a lot at the hands of my father and truth be told it's hard to live with someone like that without picking up some of their traits, but she tries and is in therapy herself. She's never had anything official against her record so I'm not going to speculate other than she's a tough cookie and more than a match for my sister.

She also has a lot of guilt over putting us in what would have been a horrific situation and had the guts to leave. My sister did suffer more at the hands of my father because she also loved him.

I cannot love someone who has broken not just one but two of my remaining family.

I don't blame my sister really, just it's hard work.

I'm going to grey rock her and see.

If you've read some of the vile things the sister has said and done to the OP and you think that's ok, then I think it's very worrying that you think it's 'normal'

I have, the miscarriage thing is disgusting - but at the end of the day making an assumption your sister has a personality disorder, and your therapist saying that are not nice either.

The OP admits she has many bills coming out, this doesn't make her a priority for childcare - it needs to a split decision, equally with her sister and her mum's final decision.

The OPs attitude as shes written it is really poor towards her sister - I havent actually seen her sister actually treat the OP poorly (onlyt he OPs word).

OP is very lucky she has a mum to do childcare, but her sister should also be able to ask that as well.

Whenever things are normal (and not in flare up situation) I feel I want to be generous, to help my sibling (older brother) and do everything I can to be one big happy family.
I do feel very sorry for him and am terrified at how unhappy he could be with his life and wish I could help.
But then he goes and does it again - absolutely terrorising some poor person, especially those he has emotional leverage over, and often me... and he literally takes no prisoners.
If I have confided in him that I am worried about something (eg my job, or a friendhsip, or finances, no matter) he will take all that information and throw it in my face in the most vicious way. Completely unable to empathise, to be fair, or even proportionate.
So I realised quickly he can’t know anything about my life (though as your sister does he goes to great lengths to find things out like how much I and my partner earn, if there is so much as a chip in our relationship he can try to leverage, etc).
He can switch from being super charmibg to then absolutely horrible and not talking to someone for months and then badmouthing them to anyone who will listen.

I tried to accept it but then one day he shouted at someone very viciously in front of my DC - and then used my DC as leverage to try and hurt me when I gave him a piece of my mind.

That is when I decided to a) go totally grey rock, and b) let the distance between us gradually grow.

If I were to say I don’t want contact anymore, there would be a lot of drama, so my strategy is to just slowly let it happen and find ways to encourage loss of contact.

I know it sounds sad but I can’t have my kids grow up around a bully. They are giving me the strength to do this and be more selfish.
It’s one thing when the bully harms only you, but what about when your family sits in the balance? Sounds like you will have to answer that question with DD as well

@EarthieBear

If you've read some of the vile things the sister has said and done to the OP and you think that's ok, then I think it's very worrying that you think it's 'normal'

I have, the miscarriage thing is disgusting - but at the end of the day making an assumption your sister has a personality disorder, and your therapist saying that are not nice either.

The OP admits she has many bills coming out, this doesn't make her a priority for childcare - it needs to a split decision, equally with her sister and her mum's final decision.

The OPs attitude as shes written it is really poor towards her sister - I havent actually seen her sister actually treat the OP poorly (onlyt he OPs word).

OP is very lucky she has a mum to do childcare, but her sister should also be able to ask that as well.

OP is not not denying her sister childcare though is she, and the therapist has met the sister, it's not an assumption? Baffling...

The thing is my therapist said in no uncertain terms my sister is a narcissist

Whether the "therapist" has met the sister or not, no professional would discuss a patient with another patient. As someone from a pretty toxic family, I'd like to hear the other sides - as they say three sides to every story.

Exactly Olly.

It's completely bizarre, the OP is complaining about her sister's issues with her finances yet she's detailed in full her sister's finances.

You have to tread carefully here and I find writing it down helps

Use text messages

I understand you aren’t happy with DD being looked after by mum. This is the arrangement we made. Mum is sticking to this arrangement.

Do no get drawn into any why ifs where fors etc that’s none of her business

Repeat - we have this arrangement in place my DD will be going two days a week

Keep repeating

@EarthieBear

If you've read some of the vile things the sister has said and done to the OP and you think that's ok, then I think it's very worrying that you think it's 'normal'

I have, the miscarriage thing is disgusting - but at the end of the day making an assumption your sister has a personality disorder, and your therapist saying that are not nice either.

The OP admits she has many bills coming out, this doesn't make her a priority for childcare - it needs to a split decision, equally with her sister and her mum's final decision.

The OPs attitude as shes written it is really poor towards her sister - I havent actually seen her sister actually treat the OP poorly (onlyt he OPs word).

OP is very lucky she has a mum to do childcare, but her sister should also be able to ask that as well.

My reading of what the OP has said is that she is happy for her sister to have childcare. Her mum is happy to provide childcare to both daughters, but the sister is not happy to receive childcare on those terms and doesn't want the OP's child to be cared for by her mother at all. Regardless of anyone's reasons, motivations or logic - that doesn't make sense as the sister is demanding something the mother (person providing the childcare) is not happy to provide. How is the OP being unreasonable here?

@EarthieBear

If you've read some of the vile things the sister has said and done to the OP and you think that's ok, then I think it's very worrying that you think it's 'normal'

I have, the miscarriage thing is disgusting - but at the end of the day making an assumption your sister has a personality disorder, and your therapist saying that are not nice either.

The OP admits she has many bills coming out, this doesn't make her a priority for childcare - it needs to a split decision, equally with her sister and her mum's final decision.

The OPs attitude as shes written it is really poor towards her sister - I havent actually seen her sister actually treat the OP poorly (onlyt he OPs word).

OP is very lucky she has a mum to do childcare, but her sister should also be able to ask that as well.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

My sister has this condition against her medical notes because we went to family therapy after it was found out she was hurting me as a kid. It's not speculation it's literal fact. She's been classified as one by someone who actually knows about this stuff !

And no you haven't seen my sister treat me poorly because this is mumsnet.
The reason I'm still put up with these ups and downs is because I know it's a medical condition and not something she can help.

I have, the miscarriage thing is disgusting - but at the end of the day making an assumption your sister has a personality disorder, and your therapist saying that are not nice either.

The OPs attitude as shes written it is really poor towards her sister - I havent actually seen her sister actually treat the OP poorly (onlyt heOPs word)

I will assume you STILL haven't read the full thread. Your posts are utterly ridiculous, full of made up nonsense.

It sounds like OP has over the years been very patient with her sister, done a lot to try and understand her, and forgiven her for very bad behaviour.

I don’t understand the people coming on here and giving her s.

@OllyBJolly

The thing is my therapist said in no uncertain terms my sister is a narcissist

Whether the "therapist" has met the sister or not, no professional would discuss a patient with another patient. As someone from a pretty toxic family, I'd like to hear the other sides - as they say three sides to every story.

It's called group therapy and my sister was a minor at the time.... when she got diagnosed 🤦🏼‍♀️

@AuntieStella

So you get 2 days free childcare a week

Your DSis also wants 2 days

That's fair. One sibling getting considerably more material assistance than the other is wrong, as is DGC having treated differently to the other.

Your therapist is bang out of order attributing a personality disorder to someone they've never met. Find a better one asap

Totally agree.. The therapist is an utterly unprofessional to have suggested someone they have never met has a personality disorder on someone they haven’t worked with.

Narcissistic behaviour is the go to definition nowadays, thrown around like rice at a wedding.

I feel sorry for your mum, as my stepmum had to put up with squabbling jealousy from my bros, one who was well off and the other not so.

It can be very hard to have squabbling adult children.

@Geraldinethegiraffe

It sounds like OP has over the years been very patient with her sister, done a lot to try and understand her, and forgiven her for very bad behaviour.

I don’t understand the people coming on here and giving her s.

I suspect they are either trolls or probably triggered by someone calling them in the past tbh.

They are all welcome to come live the life I have had and see how they would survive it

@CatsHairEverywhere

Your therapist diagnosed your sister as narcissistic despite never having met her and only having a second hand bias account of her? I’ll take top 10 things that never happened Alex.

There’s an excuse for not reading all the posts on a 35 page thread. When it’s 3 pages it’s clearly someone just looking to have a pop at the OP and doesn’t mind making themselves look silly...

Funny OP asks in AIBU and then accuses everyone of being "triggered" because they don't agree with her.

And yes, i've RTFT. I just have a different opinion on it then some others - and i am not alone.

I think all you can do is try and have an open and honest conversation with your mum -
"Mum, I'm getting really worried that DSis is putting so much pressure on you to reduce the days you care for DD so she doesn't have to pay for her DD to go to nursery. I love the bond you have with DD and appreciate your help so much, and it's really worrying me that it might stop. I just want to clarify, while I can't know all the details of their finances, DP and I earn £xx per year vs. their household income of about £xx per year, so financially it really makes a huge difference to us too and we really appreciate it. I just wanted to confirm with you that you are happy with the current set up of 2 days a week and were not planning on changing that, as I appreciate it so much and it's really worrrying me'.

You could be even more explicit and have a discussion about how to best manage DSis on this topic if your mum also fully agrees she has a problem and is incredibly demanding.

Then if your mum is fully onboard, I agree with the simple response above - 'Mum and I are both happy with the arrangement and don't intend to change anything'. And get your mum to repeat the same.

Don't talk about it with your sister, but have a chat with your mum (as you seem to have good communication with her) and make it clear that you would be deeply hurt if she caved just because of how you sister behaves.
Remind her of your childhood (not allowed to have a party etc, I'm sure you have plenty of examples!) and tell her that you have never forgotten how unfairly you have been treated but if now she starts doing the same to your DC you won't accept it and it will break the relationship.

@oakleaffy the therapist has met the sister. You're making assumptions because you haven't read the thread - ironic.

Mumsnet really needs an area for AIBU posts where people can go post only if they agree 100% with the OP.

Over and out, feel horribly sorry for your mum.