I actually think my sister is a narcissistic and it's causing issues with family childcare

[digitalnative]

So apologises for the long message I have a DD 2 years old

When Covid came along I bubbled up with my mum re childcare as I work full time I split with DD dad while I was pregnant but remain friendly and both of us have new partners.

My mum looks after my DD two days a week which is so helpful as nursery costs are unreal and my ex although we get on well pays the bare min re maintaince when he pays and sees her on off.

My sister had a baby last July and has made it pretty clear that she doesn't think my mum can cope with both kids so has asked me to put my DD more days in nursery as she doesn't want to pay for nursery or any type of paid childcare (I already pay for 3 days nursery on my own) . Did I mention that her hubby earns about 100k a year and they live in a massive massive house, go on 4 long haul holidays (pre Covid a year) and she makes about 32k a year so total house income of 132k. I live in a 3 bed house and money is well not tight but I have to budget heavily or I'm in there red at end of month. My new partner is Self employed and makes about 16k a year and I make 40k, I wouldn't ask him to drop a day off work for his step daughter (although he would) because of loss of money.

I feared tell her I got a new job as it would mean I'm making more than her (and boy did she kick off) so my pay is a issue as I'm the younger sister and she mention it at every opportunity that I make more than her, but fluffs when asked how much she makes so I suspect it's probably higher than the above.

Mums not old and is more than willing to help with the kids, bar the fact my sister comes over with her baby on days mum has my daughter and basically expects to be waited on hand and foot (she's on mat leave) and makes it so my daughter is ignored all day and tells me that my normally placid daughter is basically a demon (she's no angel but never had any issues and DD loves the baby and always v gentle as she's a shy thing) and my sister seems to stoke the jealousy element and revel in it and I have seen it in action and it's horrible 😞 even my mums like yes that's not right after but never in the moment.

The thing is my therapist said in no uncertain terms my sister is a narcissist, and if you look up online she fits the bill to a T. She was pretty hideous growing up with tbh, hiting, stealing lying you name it I was on the receiving end. Problem is because she yells and screams and loses her shti my mum used to back down and approaches me as I'm the reasonable one so I always used to lose out (as a child my birthdays were a nightmare as she would literally kick off- so I wasn't allowed parties) . In fairness to my mum she's now trying to tackle my sister and after 34 years of it always being her way she's really doubling down.

I have known this was looming for a while, my sister makes my mum drive a hour to her house to look after the baby and keeps saying get me to put DD in nursery so you can come stay the night and do the nightshift for me (she's on mat leave and her hubby does 50% of the night feeds) and I need the cover to you know work and she's on mat leave 😞😞

My mums happy to have my sisters dd on days she has my dd just as long as my sister is working and not just wanting a break feom being a parent.

I feel like I'm being gas lighted. She's now pushing for my mum to stop having DD and start having her DD as she literally will not pay for nursery fees as it's only fair "she gets her turn" and money is so tight for them 🙄

Thing is we grew up on the poverty line and I remember what it's like to really struggle so I'm not gonna sit here and say we are poor but rn I have a lot of bills that come out (don't buy a house in a housing market bubble is all I'm saying) and nursery is killing me along with a lot of student debt and other debts DD father left me with 😒

I feel like I have to justify if I go shopping for nesscary clothes for DD, get my hair done or buy anything as my sister will say see mum she's rolling in it about you getting her to put DD in nursery for more days

Has anyone successfully dealt with narisctic family member ? The only stuff online is to cut them off which my mum begs me not to do to my sister as she's "never going to be happy or contented"
And do I sound like a hideous person for every now and then just wanting to do just that.

Mums staying strong for the moment but is making mum Uber guilty and my sister want to talk about "getting the childcare issue sorted out" before she goes back to work. She got the days which mum will cover and I'm not sure what she thinks she will achieve with me.

This is starting to make me feel v low. Doesn't help that I had a late stage MC and my baby would have been born a week after my sisters baby.. and that often gets rubbed in my face saying it was probably for the best of I can't provide for my current DD 😞

@EarthieBear

Your therapist is bang out of order attributing a personality disorder to someone they've never met. Find a better one asap

Exactly this, and actually it sounds like you are the one with the issues, not your sister.

Have you even read the thread?

@YoniAndGuy

It's actually on your sister's medical file that she kept injuring you as a child?!

If that's true, I'd get her on her own, and tell her in no uncertain terms that if she didn't back off and stop with the crap, I'd report her to social services and her HV and tell them that she's beginning to behave aggressively towards not only you (with the miscarriage comments etc) but also towards your daughter - speaking aggressively, trying to cause problems with your DD's relationship and time spent with your mum... and that maybe they should look at her file and her history and keep a closer eye on her own baby.

That might scare her a bit.

Thing is it is a medical condition and she actually can't control it but it's part of that condition that they can't accept it and part of me feels v sorry for her in that sense. Treatment has been patchy for her and NHS isn't great in is area

I think actually withdrawing is probably the best way to tackle this. Usually is although she does go mad when I do this. But if I said about SS genuinely would be worried about what she would do.

@EarthieBear

Your therapist is bang out of order attributing a personality disorder to someone they've never met. Find a better one asap

Exactly this, and actually it sounds like you are the one with the issues, not your sister.

She has definitely not read the thread or maybe just a bit triggered.

Out of interest what would you say I have done wrong in this situation?

@EarthieBear

Your therapist is bang out of order attributing a personality disorder to someone they've never met. Find a better one asap

Exactly this, and actually it sounds like you are the one with the issues, not your sister.

Bet it makes you feel better about yourself leaving vile comments like that.

Well done you!

I think you'll just had to go 'grey rock' on her. Only engage with her when you absolutely have to.

And 'no' is a complete sentence. You don't have to justify yourself

Your dc should go to nursery full time
No

It's not fair chance you've had your turn
No

You're being unreasonable
No

Rinse and replete

I think you need to go nc with your god awful sister.

@harknesswitch

I think you'll just had to go 'grey rock' on her. Only engage with her when you absolutely have to.

And 'no' is a complete sentence. You don't have to justify yourself

Your dc should go to nursery full time
No

It's not fair chance you've had your turn
No

You're being unreasonable
No

Rinse and replete

Now I have heard this before, I'm sure I'm going to Google.

It's sad because it is a medical condition, and limited help.

I know on some level she knows she's having a bad episode, which is why when I disappear for a bit it upsets her.

Can you tell my boundaries aren't as good as they should be ?

@YoniAndGuy

It's actually on your sister's medical file that she kept injuring you as a child?!

If that's true, I'd get her on her own, and tell her in no uncertain terms that if she didn't back off and stop with the crap, I'd report her to social services and her HV and tell them that she's beginning to behave aggressively towards not only you (with the miscarriage comments etc) but also towards your daughter - speaking aggressively, trying to cause problems with your DD's relationship and time spent with your mum... and that maybe they should look at her file and her history and keep a closer eye on her own baby.

That might scare her a bit.

That’s a fucking horrible thing to do

Narcissist tendencies aside etc as an adult it’s not fair to use something a person did as a child to threaten / blackmail them as an adult !

OP your mum was the one who let your sister behave this way and enabled this behaviour and now she’s causing you and your sister to fight for her attention In the form of childcare. Seems engineered tbh so be wary it’s triangulation

I’d agree with Yoniandguy. She’s deeply unpleasant and damaged.

I think you just need to grey rock with your sister, and make it clear to your mum that you don't want to hear any of the horrible things or ridiculous demands that your sister says.

So your sister says to you "We need to get this childcare sorted."
And you reply "It's all sorted, Mum's happy to have both DC 2 days a week, sis."

And when she says "That's not good enough, blah blah, nursery etc" you just say "It's all sorted, sis. Mum's happy to have them both 2 days a week."

More nonsense from her
"Like I said, it's all sorted."

Repeat, repeat, repeat.

To your Mum you just need a very frank conversation along the lines of "Mum, I know sis is demanding and stressing you out and I am really sorry that looking after DD puts you in this position but I really love that you have such a bond with her, I want that to continue and you are absolutely a huge support to me as I don't know how I would afford extra nursery at the moment. If sis isn't happy I just don't think I can keep hearing about it. You know you are offering her a reasonable thing with the childcare. It makes me feel so stressed and upset when I hear from you what she is saying. I need to not know about it, so please can we not discuss her demands?"

It's really up to your mum tho. She's the one who has to make a stand given it's her actually doing the childcare. But I wouldn't be happy sending my DC if your sister were there. Going NC with her I'd put as high priority. She has less than zero empathy if she brings up your MC. That's utterly vile, and I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm also sorry you've had to deal with your mum appeasing her your whole life. It's so wrong on all levels.

Agree your childcare arrangements with your Mum, point out that bar any major change in circumstances you assume she'll stick to them as this would really put you in trouble if you have to use nursey more. Then disengage entirely with you sister - why are you telling her what salary you are on? what job you have? none of this is her business!

So you want two days and your mum is happy for you to have two days and your sister to have two days - treating you both totally equally. But your sister wants you to go to full time nursery so she can have your mum full time?

If so, YANBU. And she is definitely BU. I would just deal each time with saying something like “mum wants to treat us equally, which is what this suggestion does. Why do you think you should have more than me?”
And when she says because you earn more, you reply “yes but your family income is more than mine so on that basis I should have more support from mum than you do”
And just keep this on repeat. To your sister and your mum. Then grey rock anything more.

@TillyTopper

Agree your childcare arrangements with your Mum, point out that bar any major change in circumstances you assume she'll stick to them as this would really put you in trouble if you have to use nursey more. Then disengage entirely with you sister - why are you telling her what salary you are on? what job you have? none of this is her business!

I didn't - when I applied for the role she found the job description and salary. This isn't the craziest thing she's done. Believe me. When she's on the level sometimes I forget that she is who she is.

That is my fault, the more I try to not give information, the weirder ways she goes about to find out. Like booking in to see my hairdresser then quizzing her over how often I come in and what I get. My hairdresser was so disturbed by the convo she messaged me to let me know.

It's all really odd

Hi OP,

I’m so sorry you are having to go through this. I can 100% understand where you are coming from.

My older sibling also has (undiagnosed but in my view severe) narcissistic personality disorder.

I was constantly bullied growing up and left home and went to university as far away as possible as a result. Family life was always strained, with all of us constantly fearing this sibling’s tantrums and agression.

My mother and father have always caved into requests from the bully and expected me and other siblings to be the reasonable ones, and as a result, we have always suffered and had to leave things pass. This has had lasting impact on our lives and it’s only after having children, when I noticed my bully sibling was using my DC as collateral in arguments, that I resolved to cut contact.

I have not managed to cut contact yet. There are a lot of hurdles I need to overcome first (eg how to ensure it does not put even more burden on my parents and other siblings). But it has been a major breakthrough for me to realise that this bully will not change and the best way firward is to work towards increasingly getting them out of my life.

I never call and I never engage since our last fight. And I am no longer encouraging contact with my partner or children.

I hope you’ll find a way, but you do need to be firm and support your mom and advicate for your daughter to continue to have time wirh her grandmother. Narcissists are ruthless and never fair, she will take away from you all that she can

It seems that both you and your sister are treating your mother poorly. If she has two days of free childcare to offer, those days should be split and both of you should accept that graciously. Arguing over who needs them more is just petty. You are both adults responsible for your own families and neither of you has any entitlement to free childcare.

The situation would only change if someone had a medical crisis.

Doesn't help that I had a late stage MC and my baby would have been born a week after my sisters baby.. and that often gets rubbed in my face saying it was probably for the best of I can't provide for my current DD

I have no help re your sister/childcare, but that's horrific and I hope you are taking care of yourself.

@MixedUpFiles

It seems that both you and your sister are treating your mother poorly. If she has two days of free childcare to offer, those days should be split and both of you should accept that graciously. Arguing over who needs them more is just petty. You are both adults responsible for your own families and neither of you has any entitlement to free childcare.

The situation would only change if someone had a medical crisis.

I actually think it’s the mother with the issue here not the siblings

Although their relationship seemed doomed from the start and is probably damaged to the point where it’s not salvageable I think there’s manipulation over these 2 days childcare and back and forth over what they other has said perhaps shit stirring whilst making herself indispensable and using divide and conquer

@Shamoo

So you want two days and your mum is happy for you to have two days and your sister to have two days - treating you both totally equally. But your sister wants you to go to full time nursery so she can have your mum full time?

If so, YANBU. And she is definitely BU. I would just deal each time with saying something like “mum wants to treat us equally, which is what this suggestion does. Why do you think you should have more than me?”
And when she says because you earn more, you reply “yes but your family income is more than mine so on that basis I should have more support from mum than you do”
And just keep this on repeat. To your sister and your mum. Then grey rock anything more.

This sounds reasonable and don’t budge from this position. Also don’t let her bring her baby and herself along on your DD’s 2 days with grandmother. Not fair on your mother! She will try to find other ways of ruining this by appealing directly to your mother and using whatever manipulation and leverage she can. You need to stay firm though and tell your mom you count on her

@Shamoo

So you want two days and your mum is happy for you to have two days and your sister to have two days - treating you both totally equally. But your sister wants you to go to full time nursery so she can have your mum full time?

If so, YANBU. And she is definitely BU. I would just deal each time with saying something like “mum wants to treat us equally, which is what this suggestion does. Why do you think you should have more than me?”
And when she says because you earn more, you reply “yes but your family income is more than mine so on that basis I should have more support from mum than you do”
And just keep this on repeat. To your sister and your mum. Then grey rock anything more.

My sister does tend to play it's hard beings mum card and I have it so much harder because of x.

My mum feels guilty because of her condition, and tbh so do I a tad when she's not on one. I'm the reasonable one and also the one who can be happy.

I think if I couldn't ever be happy or contented and my mind wouldn't let me accept why, that would be a hideous half life.

She's my sister and somewhere at some point we were given different privileges. Sad thing is I can see that it's not about childcare or who is in worse spot, it's about her probably noticing she isn't like others and wants to be, and I'm on the receiving end of that unfairness, because it is unfair she has this condition.

But I have to protect my DD and myself from that fall out. Sadly

@Geraldinethegiraffe

Hi OP,

I’m so sorry you are having to go through this. I can 100% understand where you are coming from.

My older sibling also has (undiagnosed but in my view severe) narcissistic personality disorder.

I was constantly bullied growing up and left home and went to university as far away as possible as a result. Family life was always strained, with all of us constantly fearing this sibling’s tantrums and agression.

My mother and father have always caved into requests from the bully and expected me and other siblings to be the reasonable ones, and as a result, we have always suffered and had to leave things pass. This has had lasting impact on our lives and it’s only after having children, when I noticed my bully sibling was using my DC as collateral in arguments, that I resolved to cut contact.

I have not managed to cut contact yet. There are a lot of hurdles I need to overcome first (eg how to ensure it does not put even more burden on my parents and other siblings). But it has been a major breakthrough for me to realise that this bully will not change and the best way firward is to work towards increasingly getting them out of my life.

I never call and I never engage since our last fight. And I am no longer encouraging contact with my partner or children.

I hope you’ll find a way, but you do need to be firm and support your mom and advicate for your daughter to continue to have time wirh her grandmother. Narcissists are ruthless and never fair, she will take away from you all that she can

Oh thank god I'm not on my own ! Are you doing a slow fade ?

It's hideous and I feel like I'm preparing for NC but I'm grieving the relationship anyway. Did you have feelings like this ?

I try to be empathetic then I get pulled back in to this merry go around hell !

Stop engaging with her. Completely. Stop sharing your finances and details of your personal life with her. Talk to your mum and share your concerns how you think your sister is trying to do x,y,z and ask her for her support. If your mum decides she's had enough and she won't be able to look after anyone's child then you'll have to sort something else out and leave them to it. You can never win with a narcissist (if she is).

You're too involved in a situation that you have no control over.

If your Mum is happy to have your DD, what your sister wants and shouts about is utterly irrelevant.

Back right off and let them sort it out themselves. The one that that I learned with my own difficult sister is that no reaction is the only reaction. It's quite liberating once you master it.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

"Mum and I are happy with the current arrangement. Please decide between you and her how your DC fits into that. I wont be making any changes"

The above ^

And reading this Problem is because she yells and screams and loses her shti my mum used to back down and approaches me as I'm the reasonable one so I always used to lose out (as a child my birthdays were a nightmare as she would literally kick off- so I wasn't allowed parties) took me back half a century . . .

It was exactly the same in our house, except I am the elder. I got sick to my back teeth of being "the sensible one" - it gets you nowhere being reasonable. You just get sh*t on.

Her comments about your loss of your baby are beyond the pale.

Keep to the script above and let her "thcream and thcream until she's thick" if she likes.

Grey rock all the way.

@MixedUpFiles

It seems that both you and your sister are treating your mother poorly. If she has two days of free childcare to offer, those days should be split and both of you should accept that graciously. Arguing over who needs them more is just petty. You are both adults responsible for your own families and neither of you has any entitlement to free childcare.

The situation would only change if someone had a medical crisis.

Have you read this thread ? I'm not arguing over the days I'm very very grateful, my sister is saying for me to drop my days and she has 2 days care with my mum.

Mums happy and want to have both girls but my sister doesn't just want the days, she wants remove my daughter from the equation.

Can you please help me understand how I'm being unfair ?