To wonder why bystanders will ignore a crime?

[Maria53]

Tonight I reported an incident to the police. I heard a young girl screaming over and over again and shouting to be left alone. When I looked outside I saw she was being chased. Acting on autopilot I pulled on my jacket & went outside to investigate/potentially threaten the attacker with a police phone call.

When I got there 3 people walking by at the time were talking about it & the two people were gone. One said they had seen the girl being forcefully pushed to the ground.

Since Sarah Everard I think people in general are on high alert for this sort of thing. In Glasgow, where I am from, a woman named Moira Jones was murdered in a park. Later in court, bystanders said they had heard her screams as they walked past but did nothing - and regretted it bitterly.

When I was talking to my mum on the phone later after the attack, she said I shouldn't have gone to the street to investigate. AIBU to think people are likely to ignore a potentially serious crime due to fear? Or is there another reason for it?

Also this girl's screams were LOUD, I am stll shaken up thinking about it and no one else on the highly populated street had stepped out to look. Only these people walking past at the time.

There's a thing called bystander effect.

Apparently if there's other people about, people will sort of feel that someone else will do it.

If there's no houses or people around, a passerby is more likely to help.

It is shit though. I agree.

The new thing of filming things rather than helping is terrible.

Seems to be a human thing.

Well I wouldn’t have gone out to investigate either

Fear of getting caught up in it. I like to imagine that, were I a six foot, fourteen stone body building type, I'd have intervened when I saw a probable mugging going on. As it was, I said nothing as I walked past with my toddler and baby.

The girl was no more than about 17 - not that it matters what age she was. Imagine it was one of us, or a daughter/relative. Wouldn't we want someone to help us?

@NiceGerbil I have never heard of the bystander effect! Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I'll definitely look into that.

I even expected more neighbours to be at least looking out but they weren't. As I say, her screams were deafening. The police came round right away, so full credit to them.

Good for you for helping. I would have called the police but might have been too scared to intervene. Not sure, hope I would have been brave enough, but I am frightened of being stabbed. No one helped me when I was mugged and punched in the face until after my attackers had run off. I didn’t blame them though. It is scary.

I stopped a crime in progress once. A lot of people told me I was a fool and the thieving got could have had a knife.

Got = git

Well done @vimtosogood. What did that make you think...'oh yes, I could have been, maybe I was hasty...' OR 'I would do the same again' ?

In the moment I didn't consider my safety, rightly or wrongly. All I could think about was attempting to help the girl/attempt an imminent attack rape/whatever else.

It's an actual psychological thing and has been proven many times. The more people there are then the less likely they are to react, there's a sort of phenomenon that if nobody else reacts then people subconsciously assume that everything it ok and don't interfere. It also allows for a shared responsibility if something does happen.

But does this bystander effect not rely on many other people being on the street? It was empty more or less.

Because of the street layout and the way the flats are built here, you would not be able to see if the girl was being helped or not unless you came out on the street to investigate, as I did. She was being chased as well remember.

I did feel much better when I met those other people to commiserate with. I was also glad I'd stuck my mask on as they were also standing close together!

Also, if it was a younger person who was chasing then people are even less likely to interfere. People are more likely to do something if they think the two people are strangers than if they think they are in a relationship/related.

@Maria53

Well done *@vimtosogood*. What did that make you think...'oh yes, I could have been, maybe I was hasty...' OR 'I would do the same again' ?

In the moment I didn't consider my safety, rightly or wrongly. All I could think about was attempting to help the girl/attempt an imminent attack rape/whatever else.

The shoplifter gently pushed past me on his way out of the shop and in my confusion I accidentally blocked the staff who were already in pursuit. I chased him down the road until another man stood in his way. We made him give it all back but it was low value so the shop decided not to call the police. It was pretty reckless but I felt bad for getting in the way, I don't know if I'd do it again.

Someone I know of intervened in a domestic incident. Young woman being attacked by partner. She went out and asked if the woman was OK. Bloke set fire to the intervener's home, choosing the night she always had her young relative to stay over. It was caught on cctv. Not a rough area. Thankfully, relative was able to get everyone out. Knowing that, coupled with my deep mistrust of the police, it makes me afraid to call 999. Let alone intervene.

Sounds very likely but that doesn't make it better imo @slashlover.

Most women are murdered by those known to them.

But does this bystander effect not rely on many other people being on the street? It was empty more or less.

Presumably if you could hear her then others could too and would think that someone else would phone the police.

I've intervened and I've also stood back and phoned the police each situation is different but I know I wouldn't stand and do nothing.

The bystander effect is a thing however it's better that the police etc get loads of calls about the same thing than none. People also notice different things when viewing the same incident which can also be helpful.

I would definitely have phoned the police if I heard screams, however, I wouldn't have went outside to look. I have been attacked in the past before which resulted in me being raped, I know I wouldn't be any use fighting off an attacker, I just don't have the strength so would be too scared to have went outside.

Remember that in these situations people have a flight or fight response, yours here was fight so you've went out to investigate, many peoples would be flight. It isn't a choice, it's an involuntary reaction.

Well done for helping the girl and good that the police responded so quick!

The Kitty Genovese case is a good one to read...has since been questioned over accuracy but does describe/explore bystander effect and other theories.

@GiveTheGirlAGun

Someone I know of intervened in a domestic incident. Young woman being attacked by partner. She went out and asked if the woman was OK. Bloke set fire to the intervener's home, choosing the night she always had her young relative to stay over. It was caught on cctv. Not a rough area. Thankfully, relative was able to get everyone out. Knowing that, coupled with my deep mistrust of the police, it makes me afraid to call 999. Let alone intervene.

In this scenario, I assume the intervener was known to the bloke if he knew when she had a young relative over? Or was that part not related.

I suppose this shows exactly why some people won't get involved! That is shocking.

I have intervened in 2 DV type matters on the street over the years and on Sunday I intervened in a road rage incident where some man was absolutely laying into another guy. I have also stood up to intimidating and bullying behaviour on the train whilst commuting. I understand that not everyone would want to do that, but people can always do something. I am really saddened by the amount of people who just pretend it’s not happening, even when it’s right in front of their face.

The attacker might have a knife?

Tbh I’ve known of people to get involved in a strangers domestic when they’ve seen a man attacking their girlfriend and then both the man and the girlfriend have threatened them and tried to beat them up! So I can see why people don’t get involved.

@Lou98 I'm so sorry this happened to you. Yes, the police came to investigate quickly which was quite reassuring.

In truth, I would've been unlikely to have gone searching for them. But as they were close to my home (with secure entry) I figured it would have been easy enough to threaten him with police action from a safe-ish distance. But I suppose the person might have had a knife.

yes @youmakemydreamscometrue the guy on the street noticed something different to me that was important. I told them I was reporting it in the hope they would do the same.

I intervened in an argument where the man was threatening his partner and she was in floods of tears at our local park right by the playground. They both ended up having a go at me and shouting at me to keep by 'fucking bastard nosey beak out of it'. I was shocked and did as I was told. Never again.

Phoning the police costs nothing.

The fact that so many people don't even do that is really odd.

Having said that I called the police when there were some teens outside and one of the boys was being aggressive and picked up a girl literally off her feet and threw her on the ground and was advancing while she was on the floor.

Police never showed.