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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why bystanders will ignore a crime?

189 replies

Maria53 · 24/03/2021 23:38

Tonight I reported an incident to the police. I heard a young girl screaming over and over again and shouting to be left alone. When I looked outside I saw she was being chased. Acting on autopilot I pulled on my jacket & went outside to investigate/potentially threaten the attacker with a police phone call.

When I got there 3 people walking by at the time were talking about it & the two people were gone. One said they had seen the girl being forcefully pushed to the ground.

Since Sarah Everard I think people in general are on high alert for this sort of thing. In Glasgow, where I am from, a woman named Moira Jones was murdered in a park. Later in court, bystanders said they had heard her screams as they walked past but did nothing - and regretted it bitterly.

When I was talking to my mum on the phone later after the attack, she said I shouldn't have gone to the street to investigate. AIBU to think people are likely to ignore a potentially serious crime due to fear? Or is there another reason for it?

Also this girl's screams were LOUD, I am stll shaken up thinking about it and no one else on the highly populated street had stepped out to look. Only these people walking past at the time.

OP posts:
makesIlaugh · 26/03/2021 18:36

If I'd been inside and heard screaming I would have ignored it. There was a thread on here recently about screaming children and a poster got flamed for asking why children scream nowadays. I hear so much screaming I tune out otherwise I would go mad worrying that a child was being abducted every bloody two minutes. Sorry but it's true.
On another note I did intervene in a bust up when a bloke was kicking s**t out of another guy. AN ENTIRE BUS QUEUE - including many men, ignored it although it was right in front of them! Bloody disgrace.

Divebar2021 · 26/03/2021 18:50

Emergency services don't like amateurs getting involved

This is a sweeping generalisation. There’s a big difference between intervening physically in a fight and doing fuck all. There are degrees of assistance.....calling emergency services, writing down descriptions, running to get a defibrillator from the train station, applying pressure to a wound. All of those are ways of helping people and I’m sure there are many more. You can tell yourself the emergency services don’t want you to get involved but it’s bollox... you’re deluding yourself. If that’s your stance “not my problem mate” then you get the society that you deserve. No one stopping to help YOUR kid when they get hassled on the bus. I’ve dealt with many crimes in very crowded spaces eg nightclubs where no-one will even admit to seeing anything. You don’t want to get involved and then you complain that conviction rates are low. You reap what you sow I’m afraid.

Maria53 · 26/03/2021 18:55

@makesIlaugh I don't know how anyone could hear those types of screams and ignore it. How your conscience would let you ignore it.

I hear child's screams about as well. These were a woman's screams of terror, completely different.

At the end of the day, people can say 'I would have done this or that' but my adrenalin was running and I took action. I'm glad that I did. The number of posters on here saying how a stranger helping them made all the difference just supports how important it is imo.

Again others wouldnt intervene, citing their children and so on. That's fine.

OP posts:
Maria53 · 26/03/2021 18:57

@Hairobsessed123

Welldone ! I would do the same ! And I have done it ! I was in my car with my daughter and I saw a man attacking a woman I didn’t even think I turned my car round pulled up and got out of the car and shouted at the man to stop he was trying to drag her into a secluded ally way . As soon as I did this other people intervened as well I think I saved that woman from a beating ! My daughter was shocked and said I risked myself I disagree I was fine and I would do the same again ! X
Good for you. I bet your daughter will always remember that.
OP posts:
PerspicaciousGreen · 26/03/2021 19:02

I'm a great big wuss when it comes to stuff like this but I've been thinking on this thread and realised I'm much braver when I'm with my children (3 and 1). Still scared and slow to react, but I'm much more likely to speak up. I think it's partly wanting to set a good example but partly because I think aggressive people are much less likely to turn on a mum with two little kids. I'd expect a colourful mouthful but not someone to actually come up to me and attack me. No idea if I'm right.

That said, I would (and have) step in if it's a first aid situation. I've done first aid training multiple times for work so I feel like I know what to do. Someone being aggressive? Honestly, I haven't a clue how to deescalate that. I'd love any tips!

Ughmaybenot · 26/03/2021 19:31

It’s very difficult as I think people are scared of what will happen to them if they intervene. I know of a few cases where it’s backfired when someone has stepped in to help in a violent situation.
That being said, I was once attacked in the street by my abusive ex (he normally had just about enough sense to do it behind closed doors!) and several people seemed to just walk by plus we were at the base of a block of flats so plenty of people around. A police car did stop and ask if I was okay... clearly not pal... but I was at the stage where I was all ‘yea, everything is fine, nothing to see here’ and they left again. Now there’s nothing to say that any of those bystanders called the police, but I think they did. Very coincidental otherwise. I don’t blame any of them for not stepping in, my ex would’ve lost his shit at them too, and do some damage at 6ft and built like a brick shithouse.

Emeraldshamrock · 26/03/2021 21:06

Yanbu it is bad.
I know there is a risk with getting hurt but it happens in lots of situations from people hurt/ill or a distressed DC others walk by.

I did shout at a mugger once.

Emeraldshamrock · 26/03/2021 21:07

but I was at the stage where I was all ‘yea, everything is fine, nothing to see here’ and they left again Why didn't you take the help. Sad

Onamissionn · 26/03/2021 21:13

When I was 15, I was attacked in a random assault by a man, it was a main road in broad daylight and he came for me from behind and grabbed me - I could hear the cars around me beeping but nobody helped. The police said it’s common, people don’t help.

I lost all faith in the public after that until a good friend of mine recently intervened in a situation and ended up getting attacked badly herself.

I’m not sure if I would help now.

FoxgloveBee · 26/03/2021 21:30

@Onamissionn

When I was 15, I was attacked in a random assault by a man, it was a main road in broad daylight and he came for me from behind and grabbed me - I could hear the cars around me beeping but nobody helped. The police said it’s common, people don’t help.

I lost all faith in the public after that until a good friend of mine recently intervened in a situation and ended up getting attacked badly herself.

I’m not sure if I would help now.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. The only time I would not physically intervene and just call the police is if I had my daughter with me.

There have been times (before and after my assault) that I have acted on impulse and helped (I did it without thinking each time) and I will continue to do so.

Skysblue · 26/03/2021 23:16

Bystander apathy, it’s a thing. But also fear of getting attacked. I would call the police for sure if I thoight it would help, but I would never get in the middle of a fight, I’ve heard of too many times that ended in tragedy for the rescuer.

I wish I was strong enough and powerful enough to rescue people but I’m not.

Emeraldshamrock · 26/03/2021 23:35

I remember watching an ambulance programme, the doctor was stabbed after his shift outside a takeaway, someone eventually rang an ambulance he'd been crying out in a busy area bleeding and most people walked past him.

Emeraldshamrock · 26/03/2021 23:40

Another one was an experiment with a lost DC in a shopping centre in London. People ignored the DC.

StormcloakNord · 26/03/2021 23:43

I almost wish I had bystander apathy. A couple of times I've seen someone being attacked/beaten up and without even stopping to take stock, think about what to do I've ran in to try and help the person. Twice this has resulted in me being lamped!! Any time I see/hear something that's wrong my instant reaction is to shout/stop it from happening and I really wish I could just stop & think about how to appropriately handle it.

StarCat2020 · 26/03/2021 23:45

There's no such thing as common law
There is such a thing as common law.

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/legaluk-strength-of-english-law-draft-4-FINAL.pdf

Maybe you meant there is no such thing as a common law spouse which is true.

Lifeisnotblackandwhite · 26/03/2021 23:49

@Pinksatin

The attacker might have a knife?
Yes they might, but they might not too. I've been in situations where I've intervened, most have been harmless, in one less so but because I stood up, someone stood up for me. If a knife was involved that situation would have been very different.
ParkheadParadise · 27/03/2021 00:01

When my dd was killed plenty people posted about what happened on SM. When the police went to interview them turned out they knew Fuck All.
I will always be grateful to the person who found her and stayed with her until the police came.

I don't think I could ignore a crime because the victim is someone's child/partner/sibling.

NiceGerbil · 27/03/2021 00:36

Parkhead I am so sorry.

NiceGerbil · 27/03/2021 00:37

I see the thing about being scared of intervening is coming up a lot again.

Calling the police costs nothing. It's easy.

hiredandsqueak · 27/03/2021 00:46

I have called the police when I saw a woman being abused and threatened by her partner. I didn't intervene though because I feared getting hurt or the bloke dragging her off. I believed it was better the police knew where she was so I watched from a distance. They did turn up quickly and the woman was able to leave whilst the police detained the bloke.

HamFisted · 27/03/2021 01:45

I hear child's screams about as well. These were a woman's screams of terror, completely different.

I don't know- my DS has recently begun to make really loud, blood-curdling screams that sound exactly like a woman in a horror film. When I've been in the house I've been worried that the neighbours will think I'm being murdered and call the police, though it's unlikely they would.

Once, when living in flats, I left a gas lighter thing on top of the grill by accident when turning it on. It heated up and the thing exploded with a sound like a gunshot. I properly screamed. It was loud enough to render my DP temporarily deaf and made my ears ring- heaven knows what the neighbours thought it was but no one called the police or knocked on the door or anything.

Ineedcoffee2021 · 27/03/2021 03:24

@ProfessorSillyStuff

Sorry, but those of you who wouldn't help are fooling yourselves if you think you meet the threshold to be good people. Your fear has twisted you. You are allowing evil to cause trauma and it's everybody's responsibility to stop that when they see it. I'm amazed by these stories. The lady glassed, I hope you wear your scars with pride. The lady assaulted protecting a man from five other men. I would be proud to call you my sisters and fight beside you.
Well off you go superman, what you doing on mumsnet, im sure there some crime you can insert your ass into

No way do i want to wear scars as a badge of pride
I dont want life long issues from being attacked
I value me and my family more than i value sticking around to get involved with someone elses crimes

MangoSeason · 27/03/2021 03:35

I think a lot depends on the state of mind at the time of the potential intervener.

I have witnessed violent incidents twice. Once, I was on a bus in a deeply relaxed state when an alighting passenger punched the bus driver in the face. I couldn’t move to check if the driver was ok. There was no danger as the passenger had immediately fled but my brain couldn’t process it. When the police interviewed me, my throat closed and all I could do was shake my head. I have always been deeply ashamed of my reaction.

The second incident, I was striding down the street, furiously going over something that had annoyed me at work. I was worked up, tense and had adrenaline flowing. I saw a man abusing his girlfriend and he was swinging her around by her arm. I confronted him like a mad woman and he stormed off. The girlfriend told me to fuck off but hey, I felt proud of myself

So I think the same people can react differently, depending on what zone they are in at the moment

Witchcraftandhokum · 27/03/2021 04:46

Society really has gone to shit if people won't even call the police.

Oysterbabe · 27/03/2021 07:47

It's a different kind of crime obviously, but yesterday my cleaner witnessed the other cleaner stealing from my handbag. She confronted her, made her put everything back, stopped her leaving while I called the police (who came at once and arrested her for theft) and gave a full statement. I have huge respect for her, it would have made her life much easier to have pretended she didn't see or have a quiet word with the offender rather than get the police involved. She definitely put herself at risk of assault when she was blocking the doorway to stop the thief from running away.

I think there are plenty of good people around who are prepared to get involved and help. I like to think I wouldn't stand by if there was something I could realistically do.

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