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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why bystanders will ignore a crime?

189 replies

Maria53 · 24/03/2021 23:38

Tonight I reported an incident to the police. I heard a young girl screaming over and over again and shouting to be left alone. When I looked outside I saw she was being chased. Acting on autopilot I pulled on my jacket & went outside to investigate/potentially threaten the attacker with a police phone call.

When I got there 3 people walking by at the time were talking about it & the two people were gone. One said they had seen the girl being forcefully pushed to the ground.

Since Sarah Everard I think people in general are on high alert for this sort of thing. In Glasgow, where I am from, a woman named Moira Jones was murdered in a park. Later in court, bystanders said they had heard her screams as they walked past but did nothing - and regretted it bitterly.

When I was talking to my mum on the phone later after the attack, she said I shouldn't have gone to the street to investigate. AIBU to think people are likely to ignore a potentially serious crime due to fear? Or is there another reason for it?

Also this girl's screams were LOUD, I am stll shaken up thinking about it and no one else on the highly populated street had stepped out to look. Only these people walking past at the time.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 25/03/2021 00:10

There's a difference between intervening and calling the police.

What's the reason not to do the latter?

slashlover · 25/03/2021 00:12

There's also pluralistic ignorance where most of the people in a group think something isn't right but because everyone else appears to think it's okay they just go along with it. There have even been instances where people in experiments have let themselves be in danger because nobody else reacts and people tend to assume that others know better than they themselves do.

StarCat2020 · 25/03/2021 00:13

I haven't RTFT yet but Kitty Genovese case is where the term bystander effect came from

LaBellina · 25/03/2021 00:13

People are afraid to intervene. A friend’s sister was assaulted by a man that she tried to stop from harassing another girl in a bar.
Bastard broke her nose. Good that you called the police OP. Sadly in some cases it might be too late if you have to wait until they get to the scene but especially as a woman you should think of your own safety first.

Maria53 · 25/03/2021 00:14

I just keep thinking about that poor girl's screams. Pure terror.

I really hope she is safe. I should be in bed sleeping but I'm still on high alert!

OP posts:
RoseRedRoseBlue · 25/03/2021 00:14

@slashlover commonly seen when fire alarms go off.

RuggerHug · 25/03/2021 00:14

Bystander effect/panic/confusion. Also I've had mates tell me before how they have learned the hard way how 'involved' to get. Which sounds awful but it was one of the lads out with his girlfriend, she copped the screaming nearby and they both ran towards it. They yelled at the man attacking the woman(in full view of other people), attacker let go for a second, GF pulled her away, BF held attacker against the wall and yelled at a "viewer" to call the police. GF took the woman around the corner and stayed with her. All statements taken, witnesses said what happened. Nothing done about the attack, but the bruises the scumbag sustained being held away from her resulted in the BF being questioned and brought to court for assault charges. Luckily it was a decent judge who told the guy to jog on essentially but all the lads who know this say they'd always try and step in but are wary to a certain extent because of what they'll be charged with. Not saying they won't get involved, but would be a bit ......(they never know what to say then).

Fair play to you OP. In no way related but a cricket bat or hurley(depending on where you live) is something that you could feasibly grab from beside the door as a defence tool in this situation. If you use a baseball bat or something that isn't believable it could be classed as leaving with a weapon.

GiveTheGirlAGun · 25/03/2021 00:15

@Maria53 He knew the arrangements. Terrifying.

StarCat2020 · 25/03/2021 00:17

Sorry @Whatthechicken didn't mean to repeat what you already pointed out.

HamFisted · 25/03/2021 00:17

@NiceGerbil

There's a difference between intervening and calling the police.

What's the reason not to do the latter?

I tried to call the police. The non emergency line because by the time I'd got to a safe distance the incident had de-escalated. The phone went to an automated voicemail that informed me they'd want to take some details about me before I could report the crime, that this would take ten minutes and that, if I didn't want to do this I should hang up. I was in the middle of an open field near where I'd observed the incident, the mugger was clearly staring at me and I didn't want anyone overhearing my name or address or anything else.

I hung up.

Maria53 · 25/03/2021 00:17

Good tip @RuggerHug . An ex once pulled out a baseball bat from under the bed when an intruder broke in. I didn't even know he owned one until that moment but I suppose people must.

Actually one of the people I met out on the street had some kind of weapon?! Looked a bit like a police baton. Said they were ready to intervene if need be! Mad.

OP posts:
youmakemydreamscometrue · 25/03/2021 00:19

Intervening doesn't have to be a physical intervention. A phonecall to the police 999 doesn't cost anything and doesn't have to be obvious to the people involved in the incident. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I witnessed something and did absolutely nothing.

RuggerHug · 25/03/2021 00:21

Maria53 wonderful tip I got from my Dad decades ago. 'No one but scumbags and dealers have baseball bats around here. Use that and you'll not be believed, BUT if you wallop a fucker with a hurley you can believably say you just grabbed what was nearest. Who around these ways plays baseball?'

SchrodingersImmigrant · 25/03/2021 00:22

@Happycat1212

Tbh I’ve known of people to get involved in a strangers domestic when they’ve seen a man attacking their girlfriend and then both the man and the girlfriend have threatened them and tried to beat them up! So I can see why people don’t get involved.
Yeah. Happened to a woman who intervened when passing. We were on other side of a busy road but stopped to see if she needs help if the "victim" would actually try to do what she threatened.

I have survival instinct. I am call police when needed (and did), but I am not risking my own safety.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 25/03/2021 00:26

Fair play to you OP. In no way related but a cricket bat or hurley(depending on where you live) is something that you could feasibly grab from beside the door as a defence tool in this situation. If you use a baseball bat or something that isn't believable it could be classed as leaving with a weapon.

Good tip if you wnat to end up being in trouble. Police aren't stupid, even though many people think so...

Maria53 · 25/03/2021 00:28

In that moment, I didn't consider my own safety fully. I considered it partially, by thinking about my secure door entry and vicinity to my home. I was thinking of the young girl.

But think about all the people that have lost their own lives when they have intervened to save a person, whether it is from drowning or whatever else. They haven't been acting on their own survival instinct in that moment, have they?

I am not saying it is right or wrong to directly intervene, I am just interested in why people react in different ways.

OP posts:
screamingfromtherooftops · 25/03/2021 00:34

Well done for intervening OP.

I remember a situation 4 years ago, I was 17- in the middle of a busy London town centre where a mentally ill man was harassing me, shouting and eventually chased after me. NO ONE stepped in. Everyone watched. I had to run into a restaurant and beg for help, even then people continued to just watch.

StarCat2020 · 25/03/2021 00:36

Please someone what is a hurley?

Maria53 · 25/03/2021 00:38

@Whatthechicken I am just reading about the Kitty Genovese case now!

"The New York Times published an article claiming that 38 witnesses saw or heard the attack, and that none of them called the police or came to her aid."

OP posts:
rosiejaune · 25/03/2021 00:49

The bystander effect is somewhat of a myth. And the Kitty Genovese story particularly was misreported. Usually, people do help.

fee.org/articles/the-bystander-effect-myth-or-fact/

StarCat2020 · 25/03/2021 00:52

The bystander effect is somewhat of a myth. And the Kitty Genovese story particularly was misreported. Usually, people do help
No-one came to help Kitty though.

Supposedly the misreported part of the story is the number of people that heard hear screams and did nothing.

NiceGerbil · 25/03/2021 00:54

I don't know about that case.

I've seen what I assumed was bystander effect.

Maybe it doesn't exist... I think it's just how a lot of people are.

I'm a steam in person myself. Not thought out I just react.

Just different types of people.

Maria53 · 25/03/2021 00:55

This is on the wikipedia page about the case:

"In his book, Rosenthal asked a series of behavioral scientists to explain why people do or do not help a victim and, sadly, he found none could offer an evidence-based answer. How ironic that this same question was answered separately by a non-scientist. When the killer was apprehended, and Chief of Detectives Albert Seedman asked him how he dared to attack a woman in front of so many witnesses, the psychopath calmly replied, 'I knew they wouldn't do anything, people never do."

On the page it also says some people did phone to report it. But no one physically went to look for her. Then the killer returned.

OP posts:
StarCat2020 · 25/03/2021 00:59

There was a documentary on TV a few years ago featuring her brother

www.wbur.org/artery/2016/08/23/witness-kitty-genovese

One of the people in it had assumed that because their surname was Genovese that the brother was in the mafia.

He wasn't.

Gumandbass · 25/03/2021 01:10

I intervened once but afterwards I felt so shaken I'm not sure I would do it again many years ago I was in a restaurant with my children. There were 2 guys sat opposite & one of them was arguing with someone in the phone. About 10 minutes later 5 men pulled up in a car, came into the restaurant & starting beating these men up. It was vicious. I stood up and yelled for them to leave them alone & get out& I called the police. They did stop briefly to tell me to fuck off! I was so scared it would spill over & my kids would be hurt. The police arrived very quickly while it was still going on. Nobody else did anything they all just sat there watching.

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