In all.honesty does anyone get a bit frustrated by the level of support dc require . ? And if so , what to do about it ?

[Jeeperscreeper]

Spefically those of us who went to uni and were expected to be independant after it. ?
I know the world has changed.

We are supportive and make allowances but we are struggling a bit to get the right balance. Dd seems to not know what direction to go in .whilst this is normal for a 22 year old , the drama around this and the expectation of level of support sometimes seems out of balance?
Backstory. Dd went to uni . Didnt like course. Changed course. Needed help applying as it was competative course. We accepted that school had pushed her to uni and she now re considering. Fair enough . Went over fact that this new course was both tough to get on and do and when qualified it would be a rewarding but very hard profession. Ok . Bought interview outfits.Took dd to interviews all round the country.. paid for us to stay in b and b as night before etc as early interviews. We work.
Dd gets offerd places .. return with her at her request to some open days to decide. Give dd my car as car needed for practice element.
Year later following placement and difficult issues there re practice on ward due to covid. Says its not what she expected.
So gets year out. Gets job. Hates job. Tells us all the time. Finds ideal job. Applies . We buy outfit for interview. Against odds gets it. Does not ask hours . Or rate of pay. Accepts it. Gets contract. Does not want job . Hours v v long.
Back to job hates.
I just feel that am on merry go round. This is seperate from boyfriend issues.
I feel like am wait for next crisis.
I want to be supportive but not hellicopter parent as she needs to practice independance ..? But doesnt seem to want it. ? It seems like its my life type of thing to her.. but do this and that..
Whilst we are family aibu to be thinkimg dd should refering to us less ? I want her to know she will always be supported but we cant always support in the way she seems to want.
For eg her peers ring their parents daily . She sees it as odd that i dont really want a daily call .. at her age i certainly did not call my parents each day.. aibu to try to get a balance of needs here .. ? She seems to think we are good parents if we call a lot wereas we dont feel we should feel we must but feel judged . Is this a generational thing to want to be in contact so much as they are used to phones all the time ? I never anticipated so much invilvment and I have told her that just because we do not ring each day at a set time like other parents we seem to get compared to , this does not mean we do not love her dearly .. we do .
Is this poss because we were expected to independant wereas the world has changed ?!!!!! Thank you

Jeepers, you sound almost afraid of your adult daughter's reactions to you as a parent. And I bet that she knows that.

I agree with other pps that counselling might be a good way forward for you.

You have to step back a bit OP. Even in this thread, your posts are mainly about how you can fix this. She is the way she is, you can't fix her life, nor does it even need fixing necessarily. You have to respond more like a friend would, "oh dear, that sounds frustrating, what do you think you might do, hmmm, etc". Whether she is unhappy or has a job or doesn't isn't really anything for you to worry about.

Let go of worrying and being disappointed in her. I'm a bit like your DD in personality, I didn't like various courses, not much of a career, social anxiety, not many friends, bad relationships. Difference is I don't bother my parents with these problems. But I know they don't really like how I've turned out, neither do I really but what can I do?

I am going to second @BluebellsGreenbells here. Your daughter is incredibly similar sounding. And your feelings about getting dragged into oversupporting her from a sense if dread, could be me. And yes for many many many reasons, I believe my daughter is autistic.

Disregard people who blame your parenting. I had to. It's not you. Autistic girls find life very tough. And it can be very exhausting for those that love them, especially when they have zero awareness that they think differently to others. I pushed fir help when she was younger, but, well, we all know how things are for CAMHS. I would recommend YOU get support OP so you can understand more and feel less guilty. But I'm in the same position...one erratic and utterly attached and often furious 21 year old, and a neurotypical 20 year old who is living here but can't wait to go back to her uni flat. Kind of breaks my heart that her older sis's world seems to shrink every year :(

I’ll come back to your question about anything you can do now. But first, I want to come back to what you said yesterday about not being able to separate her pain from yours and getting anxious when around her. It sound like you may have some traits of a highly sensitive person. www.verywellmind.com/highly-sensitive-persons-traits-that-create-more-stress-4126393. It is possible your dd has some of the traits of a highly sensitive person too. Perhaps you also have traits of an empath. www.healthline.com/health/what-is-an-empath.

The two of you together are working against one another and dd has basically trained you (and you have allowed it) to do exactly what she wants, to be exactly who she wants you to be. But you are not who or what she needs you to be for her own personal growth. And it’s great you’re now recognising that. Because you are absorbing so many of your DD’s emotions, therapy would really help reduce this and I see you are considering getting some.

So coming back to what you can do now. You are going to need to put boundaries of steel up with your dd in a loving and caring way. I think that’s going to be tough without the ear of a therapist. I’m sure mumsnetters will willing help you but the first thing I would do today is to find a therapist.

Even if you start working on this today, you’re not going to have a quick fix on this one as you’re having to completely reframe the relationship. And going for quick fixes are what has ended you up in this mess in the first place. Both your dd and you have gone for quick fixes to feel better in the immediate without thought to the long term. You can get started now. But having a therapist on side will be fundamental in giving you the support and space to continue as you will get a lot of resistance from your dd and in the long run, if you put it the hard work it will really benefit you both.

I’ve done a lot of work on boundaries myself. I suggest you Google “setting boundaries with an adult child”. There’s a book on Amazon with this title with are mixed reviews. I had a glance at a few articles on the Google search results and a lot are not what you’re looking for but here’s one, which seems more helpful. www.empoweringparents.com/article/rules-boundaries-and-older-children-part-ii-in-response-to-questions-about-older-children-living-at-home/.

I also googled setting boundaries. Now this is the sort of thing recommended for toxic people. The dynamic in your relationship with your dd is pretty toxic, which is why I’ve included it here. Just be aware it’s harsh as not written for parents of children. But I think worth a read so you can recognise your feelings and maybe glean some ideas from it and adapt them in a loving and caring way. livewellwithsharonmartin.com/set-boundaries-toxic-people/

What your dd really needs now is some tough love, to be set adrift a little so that she can find the resources within her to work out her own life. And once you get therapy (with the right therapist), your communication will change and your conversations will naturally turn to teaching your dd what you’re learning. You’ll be able to offer her decent advice on boundaries, she’ll understand parent and adult child roles, expectations of behaviour from boyfriends and how to treat herself and others with respect and dignity.

Bottom line, you cannot change your dd. You can only change your behaviour and reactions. And once you change, your dd will be forced to make changes.

@Mummyoflittledragon AMAZING post which I am saving and going to put into action in my own 'toxic' mum daughter relationship. Thank you so much xxxxx

This is a very interesting post. My dsis was like your dd, started a degree, didn't enjoy it or put the effort in, dropped out, signed up for another degree, didn't enjoy it but did stick it out. Second degree was competitive, she did a masters but hasn't been able to do anything with it as her degree class is too low for her to be able to get on other courses to further her career in that field. She relied on my parents who earn not much more than minimum wage to fund her for two years as she wouldn't sign on. They did. She then managed to get a call handler job working from home, she seems to be doing well and has recently been promoted. Still doesn't earn much but is somewhat happier. Still doesn't go out much either. She doesn't pay rent, bills or towards food as her and her dh are saving for a deposit. She never grew up. You do not want your dd to be like her.

My parents parented the same with all their kids to a point. At 18 she started to need a lot more emotional support than the rest of us and that drive to be independent and stand on her own feet be proud of her achievements just isn't there.

I don't think there is anything wrong with speaking to parents daily. I have a quick chat with my mum most days. I can well believe your dd will be defensive when you point out some home truths. If she was able to get into medicine then she is clever, has good exam grades and whilst you have mentioned is lacking in common sense she could be very proficient in a field she just needs to find out what that is. However you don't want her taking years finding out what that is and not really getting anywhere in the meantime. The truth is that lots of jobs are repetitive and involve some drudgery. As adults we get on with them because we need money to live.

I would talk to her bluntly and set out a plan. That you are happy to have her living at your home but in the next 5 years for example you expect her to have moved out so what is she going to do to achieve that? I would pay for to to see someone with regards to getting career advice. A friend dropped out of medical school and ended up working in a bar, she then hated that and ended up getting a job in a lab which she loves, she is moving through the ranks and is doing a PhD. The difference between her parents and you was that they made it clear they were OK with her staying at home till she found her feet, she could stay for two years, had to pay board and a contribution towards food and all her own bills were her own responsibility. This prompted her to take responsibility for herself.

You are not being uncaring or unsupportive by pointing out that she is at an age where she needs to take more responsibility for herself. Yes a parent is a parent always but that doesn't mean your child sclhould need rhe same level of support, either emotionally or financially that they did as a child. Best of luck op.

Is she still in theory studying medicine, OP, just having a hear out? I can't figure it out. It sounds like she's trying to force herself to be someone that isn't her at all.

...Perfectionist high achiever lacks self-confidence or self-esteem.

MN is brimming with perfectionists so maybe this is the place to ask how in the world to get people to stop doing that crap. Someone here must have cracked it.

My guess is that cracking the self-esteem problem lies at core of all her difficulty making decisions she's later happy with. Ironically, taking more risks & having more failures might help her -- to learn she can cope with those problems after all.

Disregard what you've done in the past and think about what you want to do going forward in terms of support. Then stick to those boundaries. Only you can decide. You have to live this situation. I am literally keeping a spreadsheet of the amounts we spent on DD that I will need to compensate her brothers for. But DD is wildly more independent & confident than OP describes. I was too harsh & unkind to DC when they were little & big DS especially lacks compassion for others, but by golly I raised self-reliant & independent kids as a result. I guess no one gets it perfect.

[quote RBKB]@Mummyoflittledragon AMAZING post which I am saving and going to put into action in my own 'toxic' mum daughter relationship. Thank you so much xxxxx[/quote]
You’re welcome. I had some cracking therapy a few years ago!!

@Dustyboots

I was the same Ellpellwood. I also had no choice but to work and be independent/ survive.

But people are not the same in their mental resilience are they? In that respect it’s not so different from me with a child with disability. My child is very resilient and mentally strong, just cannot use an essential part of his body.

He struggles less than kids who are mentally fragile though and will do his damndest to survive.

OPs daughter sounds fragile and mentally struggling. She needs help and her parents need to help.

Nobody is considering the impact of Covid either. OP is quite dismissive of her daughter struggling with that element of her work.

Put it this way OP - imagine yourself dead and gone. Would you wish from your grave that you’d helped and been there to meet your daughter’s needs at this moment?

Kids brains don’t mature and until they’re 25. She is still a child.

I'm sorry but that's a ridiculous thing to say. By 25 I'd completed two degrees, had a professional job, lived 300 miles away for 4 years and bought a house with my partner. By all means support your kids, but saying that anyone under 25 is a child is insulting.

Mummyoflittledragon that feels like really good advice.
I totally recognise my part in this. Sometimes I have wondered what I may have done wrong and overcompensated for that.. and that ,coupled with unconfident parenting a gentle nature and the fact I was brought up with no mother has been a bit of a mix .
I read rhat some posters said I have left her vulnerable.

Looking back , some patterns emerge which I struggled worh at times but tried to address.( several people said they just could not connect with her or know her .. but didnt know why. She could as all kids can be really horrible to other kids under the direct influence of her best mate at the time.. shw was attracted to leaders and risk. Did not bond with what she felt was boring..i used to model kind behevoir and make little work books for her about feelings and how it was cool to consider others. She was always wanting company and did not spend much time alone unless with animals.
She was unable to think about what uni course. Which is usual for many. She would ring her b friend all the time and often when it was obvious he was really busy such as at work and he loved her v much as well as describing her as claustrophobic. She gets attatched to men v v fast.
I have always tried to guide her in our famuly values and she reflects them in that she is truthful ., thinks of others in theory and hates unjustic. She seems to see failure as not an option like getting j
High grades wereas as a family we have always put the aim of being a decent kind person as our first measure of sucess.
She shows no overt outward signs of sensitivity but displays anger easily which suggests something underneath !
Shw can be vwry logical amd very calm at least on the surface and when it boils down to it she is a good person in a crisis if someone is hurt for eg .
I struggle to think if she is an hsp , as the outward feelings sometimes hard for me to read. Something unusual for me ( eg one of her b f i knew in seconds he was fake . She had no idea and cd not read him ) .You are right in that I am and Hsp.i used the traits in my prof career.. to good effect until I burnt out ! . I would go onto ward situations and feel or pick up pain and labelled difficult patients I found it was natural to be able to find a way to relate to them very quickly and get to the nub of what was going on . Eg was advised to be aware of an agressive daughter .. what I felt and related to was her fear.. expressed as anger .. and supporting her in that dissapated it quickly. The trouble is , due to a different dynamic I feel unable to do ot with dd. I struggle to read her. I struggle as I give love , approval, kindness but when I step out of doing what she wants sometimes she gets angry and I turn into a victim not a parent. I know that my own lack of mother has meant that i also struggle to allow dd to experience discomfort as I was exposed to too much and i mix up her normal discomfort with my own which was awful and i therefore struggle to allow her to feel it as i think i assume she must feel as terrible as I did wereas its just normal discomfort !
I have a huge guilt that when she was small I used to suddenly get overwhelmed as i gave too much then got exhausted so had to suddendly go out for an afternoon or oveenight. Always came back but it was a sudden omg am.off and she wd have swnsed it.i worry myself silly that i caused a detachment disorder as i didnt have a mum by going off an leaving her in a flurry. However i do know the difference is i always came back amd i always explined that mummy had been tired or when older that i got a sense overwhelm ( like fight or flight) and that i was sorry and that i needed time out and that i always love her.
I worry that i harmed her here. Which is why i know know that i fear boundaries as i dont know if i have caused any harm . If i felt a good secure parent i think i wd know more about resonable boundaries and know i struggle due to guilt.i acknowledge that it has gone too far in that ive now become a bit of a doormat. I actually get anxous when spend time with her . And this stops me giving to her and makimg her feel more secure and loved as I find it tiring to be with her due to this.therefore i have contacted a therapist today as I love her very much and have the courage to address this . The guilt must stop i think in order to move on .. for her . Then if she has behevoir s that are not ok i can deal worh them from a more healthy and loving and less scared place myself . Thankyou .

Really interesting thread OP and it seems like a difficult position.

I want to try to give you a 24 year olds perspective. My mum (and my dad whilst he was alive) were financially supportive of me whilst I was at uni. I was very lucky, and that allowed me to really enjoy it and get a decent grade and not having to worry about money too much.

However, my mum especially after my dad died was very good at setting boundaries gradually. I remember her saying ‘I’ll pay your car insurance this year, but next year it’s all on you.’ And she did follow through with this.
I also remember being distraught at the side of the motorway at my car breaking down and having to use money which was supposed to be for a new camera I’d saved up for on recovering my car. My mum ended up giving me half the money for the recovery, but she made sure I was paying for breakdown cover after that.

My younger sister is actually in her first year studying medicine, and it did sound like the interview process was intense, and my mum did take her to all the interviews. But I don’t feel it was something my sister expected, it sounds like your daughter has the expectation that you will hold her hand through everything.

I do not feel it is normal to call your mum everyday at uni, barely any one did that whilst i was there. Maybe a message or two but nothing that intense.

Nowadays if I’m lucky my mum picks up the phone to me once a fortnight haha

Some really good advice here about setting boundaries with young adults .

I've read through all your replies and I don't think you have mentioned what her relationship with her father is like. I have a very strong idea of what a family should be like which comes from my dad being very uninvolved in mine and my siblings childhood both physically and emotionally and my mum enabling this. I obviously don't know if this is the case with your daughter but it made me think it might be especially with her forming unhealthy relationships. She sounds very low, and I feel very sorry for her, I don't see why calling her once a day is a big deal for you. This world feels very unsafe right now and very uncertain and I remember my early 20s as being a particularly hard time.