In all.honesty does anyone get a bit frustrated by the level of support dc require . ? And if so , what to do about it ?

[Jeeperscreeper]

Spefically those of us who went to uni and were expected to be independant after it. ?
I know the world has changed.

We are supportive and make allowances but we are struggling a bit to get the right balance. Dd seems to not know what direction to go in .whilst this is normal for a 22 year old , the drama around this and the expectation of level of support sometimes seems out of balance?
Backstory. Dd went to uni . Didnt like course. Changed course. Needed help applying as it was competative course. We accepted that school had pushed her to uni and she now re considering. Fair enough . Went over fact that this new course was both tough to get on and do and when qualified it would be a rewarding but very hard profession. Ok . Bought interview outfits.Took dd to interviews all round the country.. paid for us to stay in b and b as night before etc as early interviews. We work.
Dd gets offerd places .. return with her at her request to some open days to decide. Give dd my car as car needed for practice element.
Year later following placement and difficult issues there re practice on ward due to covid. Says its not what she expected.
So gets year out. Gets job. Hates job. Tells us all the time. Finds ideal job. Applies . We buy outfit for interview. Against odds gets it. Does not ask hours . Or rate of pay. Accepts it. Gets contract. Does not want job . Hours v v long.
Back to job hates.
I just feel that am on merry go round. This is seperate from boyfriend issues.
I feel like am wait for next crisis.
I want to be supportive but not hellicopter parent as she needs to practice independance ..? But doesnt seem to want it. ? It seems like its my life type of thing to her.. but do this and that..
Whilst we are family aibu to be thinkimg dd should refering to us less ? I want her to know she will always be supported but we cant always support in the way she seems to want.
For eg her peers ring their parents daily . She sees it as odd that i dont really want a daily call .. at her age i certainly did not call my parents each day.. aibu to try to get a balance of needs here .. ? She seems to think we are good parents if we call a lot wereas we dont feel we should feel we must but feel judged . Is this a generational thing to want to be in contact so much as they are used to phones all the time ? I never anticipated so much invilvment and I have told her that just because we do not ring each day at a set time like other parents we seem to get compared to , this does not mean we do not love her dearly .. we do .
Is this poss because we were expected to independant wereas the world has changed ?!!!!! Thank you

Oh yes, and if she tries saying she can't pay towards bills or any loans you've given her because she doesn't have a job, tell her to go claim jobseeker's allowance. Let her experience the alternative to working and having to pay her way while she does it.

I think it’s a generational difference. I’ve just turned 30 bought my first home last year, before then I lived with my mum after uni and saved, I did pay board to my mum.

I call my mum almost every day if I don’t she usually calls me just for a chat or rant about my job or her job, I do often ask her advice about house things like do you think I should decorate like this or can you help me with some DIY, tbh she usually offers! My sister is 21 and she is hard work, need a lot of emotional support and financial! Where as my mum left home at 16 and hasn’t been back since but has also struggled her whole life & done everything on her own.

I’m 30 so kind of in the middle. I think you need some clear guidelines - my parents’ boundary was always that after uni we’d need a job and our own place, they’d be very supportive emotionally but not financially. They haven’t necessarily stuck to this 100% over the 12 years since I got home and my two younger siblings have followed (one has a rotational offshore job so sometimes comes home for weeks at a time, the other had employment disrupted by Covid and moved back in but is already fully self employed and about to move out) but by emphasising this repeatedly as we were teenagers and at uni it meant we all knew the score. I’d recommend this to all parents of teens.

Obviously it’s a bit late for that but with your daughter I’d follow the same approach- I think telling her not to call is too much, focus on the financial/practical side and just say repeatedly that she’s 22, she needs to find her own path, at a minimum you expect her to fund herself, her own accommodation, travel and living costs including clothes. You can backtrack in future if anything dramatic happens but by being now clear about expectations you can also stop her sabotaging herself by dropping out again, for example - she’s much more likely to do this if she thinks she can just move back home and get you to pay all food and bills while she thinks about what she wants to do next.

@Jeeperscreeper

Backforgood . I agree that I have perhaps chosen this level of support. .. and because it seems expected. .. indeed I have often felt compared and have been cf to othwr parents , like the daily calls other parents do .. and i realise that my parneting confidence has been low in rhe face of this..

Apologies if this sounds mean but I think you need to hear it. She's spoilt. You've accidentally raised a bully and she's manipulating you with temper tantrums, squashing you down and crushing your confidence.

Maybe like a lot of bullies she's lacking something within herself, confidence maybe? Next time she "can't cope" with an ordinary thing, instead of fixing the problem in a practical way consider paying for a short course of therapy for her, so she can learn how to cope with things herself.

Not always . I did say that i expect to gwt own place etc . But that in the short term would be most welcome to stay with us. Dd then says well yes of course .. you do realise its normal for kids these days to live at home after uni .. my mates mosty do .. which they do .. it feels like she does not want to hear that this would be temporary and like she is cross at us to bring that side of things up . Maybe she wants a saftey net and her anxiety , despite us saying you can come of you need to ,comes across as anger.

I genuinely think that she thinks the level of support she requires is the minimum you should have been expecting to do! So she gets frustrated when you're not "seeing" it the same way.

There are different reasons to move home after going to uni though. One is a genuine desire from all parties to live together. Another is to save for a house deposit. And another is because the child thinks they can live at home until an adult independent life magics itself up.

I'm early 30s and dont remember any of my peers phoning their parents daily and expecting to be driven to interviews etc. Surely you only need one interview outfit? Why cant she get the train to interviews? My parents would never drive me anywhere, even as a teen, unless it was impossible to get there on public transport. They would show me the rail timetables Sounds like nursing isn't for her if she hates long hours and nightshifts.

Has your DD ever been assessed for any executive function deficiencies?

Any form of autism/ASD?

Depression?

Anxiety?

I think that generational expectations have definitely changed, both in young people’s and their parents and I would say that to all intents and purposes, certainly among many middle class families, both parents and young people seem to consider 18-25 as an extended adolescence these days (and sometimes longer than that too).

As a GP I see this all the time, so many mothers calling me up on behalf of their twenty (and occasionally thirty!)something child and getting really furious with me when I say that I cant discuss their blood results or whatever without specific consent from the patient, they say in genuine confusion “but I am their MOTHER!” And I have to say “yes but she is 28 now so I have to talk to her because of confidentiality, it would be different if she was 15 obviously”. Even then some mothers still continue to rage at me or even put in formal complaints! It’s so weird to me! I’ve also had mothers accompany their twenty and thirtysomething children to an appt. to some degree if it’s young 20s and it’s a mental health issue or whatever I think fair enough, or obviously if there is a major learning disability or whatever that’s also different but when they are 38 worth no health problems and coming to speak to you about abdominal pain I find it super weird that they bring threir mum into the consulting room. But it happens! Never used to.

I did have one case where a 23 year old cane to see me to complain that they felt they were a victim of domestic abuse on financial grounds because their mother was making them homeless (her single mother had lost her job and was being evicted for being in arrears - I knew the background as she was also my patient). The daughter had been living there rent free while studying at uni and she genuinely felt that her mother saying she’d have to find her own place at this point (they were also not getting on, so the mum didn’t want them to find another place together) amounted to domestic abuse. I literally had to point out to her that at 23 her mother wasn’t actually legally obliged to house her for free... so it could be worse OP!

It’s interesting, I do have some sympathy for the idea that 18 is too early to be fully independent in an ideal world and that the brain keeps developing until 25 etc. However, personally do think that it’s gone too far and that young people need to learn to stand on their own two feet quite a bit more than many of them seem to be doing. I do appreciate that the housing market and economy is not ideal etc so concessions need to be made, for example I wouldn’t judge someone for living with their parents in their late twenties in the way I once might have done when I was young (I’m a Xennial myself) but I do think that unless they are in full time education - because to be fair I was fortunate enough that my parents kindly paid for my accommodation for me all through uni and I don’t think I could have studied medicine if I had to work to cover the rent as well - they should be paying their fair share of rent and household bills for example. I do think some of them are going to be in for a very rude shock later in life when they realise what it is to actually be an adult!

They don’t magically turn into adults at eighteen. It’s a gradual process. They need ongoing support at some level throughout their lives; we all do.
Isn’t that the nice bit of parenting young adults? Watching them gradually find their feet and become fully integrated into the adult world.

Ours mainly phone most days. Usually on the way too or from work, or to talk through a decision or options. We’ve driven for hours to collect them when they’ve been ill and needed looking after still. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t. We’ve set them up to be financially continent and living comfortably. It’s lovely to visit and see the homes they’ve created.

We supported ours until they felt settled in their careers. None of them chose easy jobs and they’ve had some tough times. A kind ear to offload in to helps them move forward more confidently.
Even our forty something ex-foster child still needs/wants advice around moving house or his business.

Why would you just cut them adrift? You might not be a doormat, you might set boundaries still, but you don’t just watch them fail.

Assuming nothing is amiss in any psychological or MH sense, I would suggest to her that she get in touch with a well rated organisation that provides career advice, identification of aptitudes, etc. She needs to find and fund this herself, schedule it all herself, and figure out how to get there and back under her own steam.

Tell her when problems crop up that you have confidence in her ability to sort everything out herself. Make sympathetic noises but ask her what she plans to do to solve problems. Tell her her plans sound solid. Don't jump in with help. Let her experience difficulty and frustration. Let her fail. Let her pick herself up and soldier on.

Don't ever tell her your dearest hope is that she'll be happy. It's a nonsensical target and she will feel she's failing when happiness is elusive, which it so often is
Busy, yes.
Financially independent/ stable, yes.
Achieve work/ life balance, yes.
The satisfaction that her talents are being put to good use, yes.

If you dont want to do it.
Then you need to say no.
She isnt going to learn to do it for herself unless you let her do it for herself.
So you need to start saying no.
By doing all the hard work you are just enabling her to become more dependent on you.

Err.. you signed up to be a parent for life not just until they turn 18. I'm 35 and I would still call my parents in a crisis and they would always help. I hope my daughter still wants to speak to me every day when she gets older.

Math
Yes dd had social.anxiety after beumg dumpwd by her boyfriend . She has had low mood in some ways since leaving her course as she hated it so much amd then going from.that to.a borimg job whi h she now has and hates has not helped.
She does tend to make.poor descisions. She is a poor judge of character. Does not see what is clearly boy using her. Does not like her own company ans often has company rather than be on her own which oa her main hate
Eg has got together worh somwone on a dating app for company rather thn massivly liking the person. Her previous bf describes her as lovely as she is very caring as well as.claustrophpbic .

Aplogies re typing . Poor vision and new phone.

My dd is like this although she's not quite 18. She wants me to do everything for her. She needs an eye test and I work full time but she wants me to arrange it. Same with dentist. At this point, working full time and her going to school in the town, I feel, ca you not just go yourself and I"ll pay. But she wants, and expects me to ARRANGE it all.

So you have all of my sympathies.

Would she consider therapy? Officiall for her anxiety, but it sounds like other stuff would come up.

My parents didn't have any advice for me after uni. They left school at 15/16 and expected me to walk into an amazing job after uni, whereas I was, realistically, in a mess and needed some advice other than:"be a temp" (can't- taught myself to type a bit, only have bar and shop and factory experience; can't drive).
They were mainly irritated by me being at home again.

Hmm on second thoughts OP your DD’s attitude sounds bit like the person that came to see me about the “domestic abuse” 😬 I think the problem is that it’s become so normalised in that generation to live at home with your parents in your twenties that some of them forget that you’re actually obliged to allow your adult children to live at home with you! And certainly not rent free if that’s what she expects (and I’d give her a heads up now about it!)

It’s great to feel that you have a safety net for sure. I know that if things ever completely fell apart for me that as long as my parents are alive I have a room in heir house if I want it. In fact they have said that to me. And I really appreciate it, I am very fortunate in that respect. But I think that’s the difference, the fact that I understand they would be doing me a huge favour in that case which I’d be so thankful for and crucially don’t EXPECT of them, and maybe also that because I’m not of this younger generation that I’m unlikely to ever actually take them up on it unless things were really dire. Maybe they’d change their minds if I actually did 😂 It’s ok to reassure her that she always has a place in your home if you need it while also making sure there are some boundaries in place if she does move home, and I honestly would not allow her to live with you without paying a fair share of rent and household running costs unless there is a very good reason why not on a temporary basis (like serious depression making her unable to work etc).

I will say that I have unfortunately struggled with mental health problems myself and also lots of serious adverse life events. My parents have been my absolute rocks throughout it and I appreciate it so much. But I know it has taken a toll on them. And they did once say to me that they felt we shouldn’t speak on the phone so much any more because I was just going round in circles all the time and not really managing to solve my problems anyway despite talking it all through with them. And that I always seemed to be sad and upset no matter what they said, and it upset them to hear me like that, as they couldn’t seem to help me so the phone calls were pointless and draining them. And that they felt I was somehow expecting them to solve the problems I had which were nothing to do with them. Sounds a bit uncomfortably close to what you’re feeling OP 😬 Honestly I was a bit shocked that they said that, partly because because from my perspective the phone calls to my parents were all that was keeping me going at that point. And I found it really helpful both emotionally and practically to talk things through with them. But certainly wasn’t at all expecting them to solve my problems for me. Most of them weren’t really all that solveable at all to be honest. Just wanting a supportive chat from people that I know really love me at a difficult time. We had a long talk about it and I think it helped them to know that they were really helping me even though they didn’t feel like they were. And I told them it wasn’t fair to put pressure on me to be happy when life was shit and my mental health was poor, it wasn’t my fault that I was still depressed, I was trying everything I could to address it but it wasn’t working. So they shouldn’t see it as a personal failing that I was still depressed at the end of a phone call, after all if a phone call could solve depression instantly nobody would be depressed. And I think it made me more aware that I needed to not just call my parents and moan constantly. And also that I needed to be more aware that they were struggling with the situation too plus their own problems, and would sometimes have to go and attend to other things rather than talking to me, and it wasn’t that they didn’t care but they have their own lives and their own needs too. I think we have a better balance these days.

So anyway my point is, that maybe you need to have a conversation about boundaries with her if you find the conversations draining and pointless but she wants to talk to you more not less. And even though in your eyes the conversations may be circular you might find that it is helping her to talk things through. But it’s totally reasonable to say but you can’t call me late at night or if I am having dinnner I’ll have to call you back or I can only spare 10 minutes for a quick chat etc. Or say you’re happy to chat about anything except her work as you find it upsetting to see her so fed up wothbwork all the time. Or if it’s an issue to you to talk every day then say let’s limit it to x times a week or whatever. She might surprise you in a good way with her response! Although I can’t conceiev elf a world where I would call my parents once a fortnight only. I guess maybe when I was at uni and I was very happy and settled
With lots of friends and good mental health it was like that. So maybe it can be again! But I think I’d still want to talk to them more than that. And my son is only 14 but I can’t imagine not wanting to speak to him more than once a fortnight!

There are definitely some generational differences and also I think the way education has move doesn't foster independence. The phoning everyday thing is by the by. I have friends who do this and have very close relationships. My parents have never encouraged this and I used to call every couple of weeks. I loved my independence and would feel claustrophobic in her or your shoes.

I'm concerned if your DD doesn't manage nights, long hours or dealing with angry people she will struggle in med school and as a doctor.

It sounds like you need to take a coaching type step back. Less sorting things out for her and more giving her space and prompts to sort herself out.

I'm interested to know what she was like as a child and teenager? Her maturity levels sound very teen like to me. I am aware we are living through a pandemic and most people's resilience is running low....

My parents went abroad when I was 16 leaving me all alone so I just had to get on with it. i went to nursing school simply because I could live in the nurses home and not worry about where to live.
I had a baby at 21, bought my own home on my own that year and worked full time.
My son was very independent too although I was there for him more than my own parents, he just went off and did his own thing.
i think people will only be this dependent if you facilitate this, you have to learn not to and just let them get on with it. You are doing them no favours running around after them like this.

If this was someone on my team at work, I would certainly let them talk to me for a while about what was bothering them, especially in the current climate, but I would definitely also be asking them what they were going to do about it?

How do your conversations go? At what point does the topic move into you fixing something for them?

Try a game with yourself, to see how many ways you can think of, to bat questions back to them without them really noticing. Even if they do notice, you can always fall back on the "I'm not sure what to suggest, what do you want to do / what do you think you should do".

My mother always suggested I do some chore while I was thinking about it. It's surprising how a good idea will come with a change of scene and something you don't really want to do.

If you stick to this there will be a win win. You will be doing less and they will be learning how to problem solve for themselves.

The best boss I ever had would ask me questions whenever I explained I had a problem. I quickly learned to anticipate the questions so had worked though those things before I took a problem to him. I felt I scored each time he didn't have any further questions to ask.

Try that. Good luck.

I think she needs to do some therapy to address anxiety and to discern any other issues tbh.

I would be concerned about MH or personality issues, given that her anxiety about being alone has led to (what I consider to be) a poorly thought out solution to the problem.

The description by the previous boyfriend is also troubling, as she seems to have the same approach with you.

Sometimes ASD goes undetected in bright girls because they mask it well and don't cause trouble in school. Squeaky wheels get the oil.

But it can express itself in dysfunction in early adulthood and can be very frustrating, even baffling, to parents because school reports were so good and the anticipated trajectory seemed so clear and straight. It can also be baffling and frustrating to the 20something herself because she knows she is bright but she can't understand why she makes stupid mistakes and why nothing turns out as she hoped.

It can be accompanied by anxiety and depression as the young adult realises she somehow can't 'adult' but her peers seem to have their lives well in hand. Masking in the form of telling you all her friends live at home or call mum twice a day, and other attempts to pass herself off as the average member if her generation. Masking can also take the form of sharing lofty career goals, which can be a way of reassuring parents that she is ok, and a way if telling herself that she is who everyone thinks she is.

Weighted.
As a child she never wanted to be alone. Family memories are that she was always next to.me. shw did.not watch tv or stay in her room.for long . It was remarked upon
Like if she read she would want someone in room doing the same. She was easily led in school
She was attracted to trouble.makers and thought.normal and.nice as boring. She had bf early and made poor choices. She says she only feels happy in relationship
. In a group of really bitchy girls at.school . Cdnt break away from.them . Alway s wants to.be in relationship . Does everything with them and for them . Likes company and attention . Very kind. Academic ability but does not enjoy it for its own sake. Gets v angry if feels criticised. Wants both independance and much contact and signs of beimg thought of. In the past tended to shape shift to who ovwr she is with .. like mates or boys .. this not just due to.age as some of her peers steadfastly refused to.drink or go after boys for eg .weras she did both from.young age.

I think you have been too supportive. My parents didnt buy interview outfits or take me to uni interviews. I brought my own using money from pt job and went myself. I worked logistics out myself. When I didnt like my uni course I changed it after researching and talking to the uni myself. When my dad was sick I took a year out, worked and supported my family then went back to uni. My family are there if I need them but they have made me confident and made me solve my own problems without offering solutions.

The intrestimg thing is she never showed any anxiety re school or.nursery wheras her sibling who is more confident did
I wd say she is introverted . But gets angry when hears things she does not want to.hear. shw can be the kindest of humans .