In all.honesty does anyone get a bit frustrated by the level of support dc require . ? And if so , what to do about it ?

[Jeeperscreeper]

Spefically those of us who went to uni and were expected to be independant after it. ?
I know the world has changed.

We are supportive and make allowances but we are struggling a bit to get the right balance. Dd seems to not know what direction to go in .whilst this is normal for a 22 year old , the drama around this and the expectation of level of support sometimes seems out of balance?
Backstory. Dd went to uni . Didnt like course. Changed course. Needed help applying as it was competative course. We accepted that school had pushed her to uni and she now re considering. Fair enough . Went over fact that this new course was both tough to get on and do and when qualified it would be a rewarding but very hard profession. Ok . Bought interview outfits.Took dd to interviews all round the country.. paid for us to stay in b and b as night before etc as early interviews. We work.
Dd gets offerd places .. return with her at her request to some open days to decide. Give dd my car as car needed for practice element.
Year later following placement and difficult issues there re practice on ward due to covid. Says its not what she expected.
So gets year out. Gets job. Hates job. Tells us all the time. Finds ideal job. Applies . We buy outfit for interview. Against odds gets it. Does not ask hours . Or rate of pay. Accepts it. Gets contract. Does not want job . Hours v v long.
Back to job hates.
I just feel that am on merry go round. This is seperate from boyfriend issues.
I feel like am wait for next crisis.
I want to be supportive but not hellicopter parent as she needs to practice independance ..? But doesnt seem to want it. ? It seems like its my life type of thing to her.. but do this and that..
Whilst we are family aibu to be thinkimg dd should refering to us less ? I want her to know she will always be supported but we cant always support in the way she seems to want.
For eg her peers ring their parents daily . She sees it as odd that i dont really want a daily call .. at her age i certainly did not call my parents each day.. aibu to try to get a balance of needs here .. ? She seems to think we are good parents if we call a lot wereas we dont feel we should feel we must but feel judged . Is this a generational thing to want to be in contact so much as they are used to phones all the time ? I never anticipated so much invilvment and I have told her that just because we do not ring each day at a set time like other parents we seem to get compared to , this does not mean we do not love her dearly .. we do .
Is this poss because we were expected to independant wereas the world has changed ?!!!!! Thank you

@Inhaleexhale23

Hi OP, I am one of those children! I am 31 , married with a child of my own and I honestly rely on my mum and dad (particularly mum) so much. In terms of financially, this has become less as obviously. I would say I relied on them financially until about 22. Obviously I work now, bought my own car, have a mortgage etc . But I would always go to my mum first in any problem, crisis, for advice about jobs, children anything. I wouldnt dream of making a big decision eg buying a house without asking her advice first. My dad comes round to change my flat tyres etc !! It’s just how we are, best friends and I’ve always gone to her for anything. I know I am lucky but I do not feel embarrassed as I often say ‘sorry mum you’d think I’d have life sorted by now!’ And she comments she will always support me when she can.

I was also completely aimless until about 23/24. In and out of home, dropped out of uni, went on a gap year (I did save for this myself with a part time job) and still didn’t know what I wanted to do! I did a mature uni course at 25 and I’m still in that job now.

You’re daughter won’t be relying on you forever but in my opinion and based on my own and peers experience she’s still really young and only just an adult really.

Jesus. I'm embarrassed for you. Have you ever, ever thought even for a second about what your expectations might be costing them, or are you content to be an infant forever?

Is there any cultural element to this? I mean when she's comparing herself to her friends. Are they from other cultures? In other cultures, it is more of the norm maybe never to be truly independent from your parents, or maybe seen as fine to only cut apron strings in your late 20s etc. I mean western culture puts more emphasis on independence than other cultures may do. It may be a good thing about western culture but it's probably subjective.

Also in terms of brain development, it's been found that male brains in particular only reach full maturity in mid to late 20s. Frontal lobe is still developing up to that time. So I think the "you need to find your own feet by the time you are 18" prob works for some people but def not for others.

Notapanda . Yes i kmow . I just dont kmow how ..
I have

Supported for years
Arranged councelling via uni at the time.
Given practical advice . Emotional support. Financial support.
I am here for advice. How can i fix this like you say ? I am very happy to as i acknowledge i am running out of steam. I will not abandon her. I want to be wise . I want to support amd help her grow as a human
. Without over protect or under protect.
Its like she loves loves support. Wants to be with people much of the time. Fears being alone.
If i dont give this too much attention she craves it . If i do i am encoraging that need / not doing her favours. I am really wanting to apply my engeries to best support her. I am losing confidence myself as i dont n
Know how to fix this self esteem issue she most probably have.
I have sent her thi k of you gifts . Self help books. Visited. Took her out for take away meals. Listened. Talked .how can i fix this ? I really am happy to address any of my own failings etc .

Oh gosh I’m 29 and ring my mum every day 😂

@ScarfaceCwaw not embarrassed in the slightest. Every single one of my friends are the same and my lovely parents are a huge part of mine and my child’s life while they can be. Would be more embarrassed if I felt the need to be really rude to people on the internet just because I didn’t agree with them.

I think you need some counselling OP to help sort this out.

As others have said views on this are so varied and objective, depending on culture etc Mumsnet can’t sort this out for you.

You don’t sound happy tbh or certain of how to parent. You don’t sound like you know or understand your daughter. That is fundamental. You cannot help her if you don’t understand her.

Perhaps you both need to do a family therapy together?

It will be worth it, I’m sure.

Most posters here have touched on it but agree you need to with draw the amount of physical support you are providing, it's OK to still be giving emotional support.

At 22,if she wants to do a degree that requires a car, she needs to get a job to fund that car. Likewise if she needs interview clothes, get a job to pay for that. I worked from 16 and learnt to never expect my parents to fund the things I wanted in life, that's my responsibility not theirs. And sometimes you have to do thing you don't like to get to where you want to be ultimately. She has learnt she doesn't need to stick at anything if the going gets tough because you will always pick her up and support her again

Hey OP, I’m 23 so this is coming from the perspective of someone your daughters age.

So she’s doing a medical degree in Covid times and struggled to cope? That does sound like a difficult situation for her and probably separate from all the dependency things she has going on.

She has a job, that’s great! When she asks you to buy things from now on tell her to pay for it herself. If she needs help/advice on interview clothes then go with her, but don’t pay. If she needs to travel let her go alone, she will get a massive confidence boost once she’s done it. If she needs to borrow your car and it’s available, I would tell her that she needs to pay for the fuel but she can borrow it.

I talk to my mum very regularly, but it’s mostly memes and funny anecdotes by text. I don’t need constant reassurance or anything. But I think you need to start letting go of her. Let her do the travelling, and the paying. If she has lost her job then of course you can help, and you can lend an ear when she’s upset about Covid related things.

In all honesty, she mostly sounds anxious, but the answer isn’t to do more for her. I don’t think she’s doing terribly badly despite it all though.

I think that her strong need for company and not to be alone is a real issue here on reflection. Its like she will have any compamy rather than no company .it seems a real fear. We did support her to get councelling . She said it was no good . Stopped it after two sessions.
I do struggle to undertand her to be honest. I want to . I guess what i do know may be .
She is very intense and wants to be in relationships wether it be a good friend or with a man all the time.
She never wanted time alone as a child. .friends told me their dd would watch tv alone.or read. She was alway z in my orbit.
She was attracted to a bad crowd at school. Despite that she got very high grades.
She is a pleasure seeker.
She fears being alone.
She has social anxiety which she hides with her apperance ( she is very attractive ) .
Having atranged coincelling that she camcelled i am unsure how to help. If i give more of what she wants / seems to need i enable her ? I had hoped it would give her a secure foundation .
If i try to stop her depenfing on us it causes more feelimgs of low self esteem in her. ..
I do.ask her questions about how she can do things and listen . Sometimes she just says crossly well i dont want to.thi k about it. I feel i have lost confidenceas a parent and need to work on this . Thank you all .

People who are resilient and strong and able to be independent early had their needs met during childhood. I don’t mean materially / I mean through a parent figure being fully available to them emotionally.

It’s possible to make up for this later on - but you need guidance OP and help to achieve that.

Good luck x

@Jeeperscreeper

I would suggest therapy for you. You cannot change her behaviour or improve her self esteem. It's got to come from her. You can change how you react to her. If family therapy is an option that would be fantastic.

For previous posters saying they ring their parents every day, you are missing the point. It's fine to ring them every day or more If both parties are happy with that.
If the support goes just one way with an adult child this is different. It's healthy to have boundaries.

Dusty . Are you saying I wasnt emotinally avaliable to her when she was a child ?

@Jeeperscreeper

Notapanda . Yes i kmow . I just dont kmow how .. I have Supported for years Arranged councelling via uni at the time. Given practical advice . Emotional support. Financial support. I am here for advice. How can i fix this like you say ? I am very happy to as i acknowledge i am running out of steam. I will not abandon her. I want to be wise . I want to support amd help her grow as a human . Without over protect or under protect. Its like she loves loves support. Wants to be with people much of the time. Fears being alone. If i dont give this too much attention she craves it . If i do i am encoraging that need / not doing her favours. I am really wanting to apply my engeries to best support her. I am losing confidence myself as i dont n Know how to fix this self esteem issue she most probably have. I have sent her thi k of you gifts . Self help books. Visited. Took her out for take away meals. Listened. Talked .how can i fix this ? I really am happy to address any of my own failings etc .

It isn't your problem to fix. The running around after her part, yes fix that. That's your problem and it's wearing you down so it needs to stop. Withdrawing gradually and allowing her to find alternative methods of coping is fair. Read that again. Allowing her to find alternative methods of coping. It's not your job to demand she does xyz instead of leaning on you. Letting her lean on you until she agrees to do what you want isn't going to work. She's an adult, she has the right to choose. You can advise her and guide her but she has to choose her own behaviour. If you're giving her her preferred option (leaning on you) she's not going to choose anything else.

You can only help someone if they want to be helped. You can't live her life for her. She's an adult and if she's determined to stay on a path of self destruction there's not much you can do.

It's easier for her to lean on someone else than to learn to be independent. She's taking the easy option and getting angry if you suggest she do otherwise.

She wants attention? So do a lot of people. Your description of her chasing after any man who'll have her (along with around 75% of the women I've ever met), hanging around with a bad crowd of friends for company and excitement, that's a description of what, I don't know, 50%? of the population. She's not unusual. You say she shuns sensible, normal friends and chooses these others. That's her choice, you can't make her choose differently. And if she ignores you advice and warnings, you don't have to pick up the pieces if it goes wrong. You picking up the pieces every time enables her to stay with these people. If she had to face the consequences of her actions she might decide singledom while she waits for someone nice who she's really attracted to and sensible normal friends are a better option. Don't give more of yourself than you can spare. Don't worry yourself into an early grave. Give your advice, try to steer her in the right direction, then step back and let her live her life the way she chooses.

She craves attention if you don't give it? So let her feel that and learn to deal with those feelings. Friends, workmates, hobby groups, there are plenty of places for her to find attention or better still, learn to manage without constant attention. She's not a toddler. Happiness comes from within, she can't keep delegating responsibility for her happiness to external people.

Next time she moans about being all alone, having no friends, everyone too busy to spend time with her today etc., don't fix it for her by inviting her over or indulging her with a 3hr phone call, ask her how she's going to fix it, ask what is her plans for today? and brush off any further moaning, change the subject. Don't allow her to dump the problem of her loneliness onto you. It's not your problem, it's hers. If she can't fix it then she needs therapy. But again, for that to work she needs to accept that she needs it and be ready to engage with it, including seeking it and arranging it herself. It's no use you telling her and booking an apt for her where she goes along and moans with no intention of learning anything.

@Jeeperscreeper

I think that her strong need for company and not to be alone is a real issue here on reflection. Its like she will have any compamy rather than no company .it seems a real fear. We did support her to get councelling . She said it was no good . Stopped it after two sessions. I do struggle to undertand her to be honest. I want to . I guess what i do know may be . She is very intense and wants to be in relationships wether it be a good friend or with a man all the time. She never wanted time alone as a child. .friends told me their dd would watch tv alone.or read. She was alway z in my orbit. She was attracted to a bad crowd at school. Despite that she got very high grades. She is a pleasure seeker. She fears being alone. She has social anxiety which she hides with her apperance ( she is very attractive ) . Having atranged coincelling that she camcelled i am unsure how to help. If i give more of what she wants / seems to need i enable her ? I had hoped it would give her a secure foundation . If i try to stop her depenfing on us it causes more feelimgs of low self esteem in her. .. I do.ask her questions about how she can do things and listen . Sometimes she just says crossly well i dont want to.thi k about it. I feel i have lost confidenceas a parent and need to work on this . Thank you all .

How much clearer can she be to you? Listen to her! She's telling you she's lazy, wants the easy option. Doesn't want to look inside herself for her own solutions, isn't prepared to do the hard work of feeling uncomfortable during therapy in order to improve her life. Or the hard work of studying or career jobs. She seeks the quick fix, the easy option. Doesn't want to grow up and be independent, too much like hard work. She's telling you who she is. Pay attention. You don't have to give her what she wants. Low self esteem if you withdraw a little bit? Then let her work out how to fix that for herself. Hopefully she'll choose something sensible like good friends or volunteer work or therapy. If she chooses bad men and alcohol for example, that's her choice and it's not your fault. One day if she comes to you for help because she wants to fix her own life then help her. But you can't help someone who doesn't want it. There's a difference between wanting help and wanting someone to do everything, and be everything, for you. She's never going to stop this if it's her chosen option. It you who'll have to stop it by saying No More and expecting her to choose something else.

@Jeeperscreeper

I think that her strong need for company and not to be alone is a real issue here on reflection. Its like she will have any compamy rather than no company .it seems a real fear. We did support her to get councelling . She said it was no good . Stopped it after two sessions. I do struggle to undertand her to be honest. I want to . I guess what i do know may be . She is very intense and wants to be in relationships wether it be a good friend or with a man all the time. She never wanted time alone as a child. .friends told me their dd would watch tv alone.or read. She was alway z in my orbit. She was attracted to a bad crowd at school. Despite that she got very high grades. She is a pleasure seeker. She fears being alone. She has social anxiety which she hides with her apperance ( she is very attractive ) . Having atranged coincelling that she camcelled i am unsure how to help. If i give more of what she wants / seems to need i enable her ? I had hoped it would give her a secure foundation . If i try to stop her depenfing on us it causes more feelimgs of low self esteem in her. .. I do.ask her questions about how she can do things and listen . Sometimes she just says crossly well i dont want to.thi k about it. I feel i have lost confidenceas a parent and need to work on this . Thank you all .

How much clearer can she be to you? Listen to her! She's telling you she's lazy, wants the easy option. Doesn't want to look inside herself for her own solutions, isn't prepared to do the hard work of feeling uncomfortable during therapy in order to improve her life. Or the hard work of studying or career jobs. She seeks the quick fix, the easy option. Doesn't want to grow up and be independent, too much like hard work. She's telling you who she is. Pay attention. You don't have to give her what she wants. Low self esteem if you withdraw a little bit? Then let her work out how to fix that for herself. Hopefully she'll choose something sensible like good friends or volunteer work or therapy. If she chooses bad men and alcohol for example, that's her choice and it's not your fault. One day if she comes to you for help because she wants to fix her own life then help her. But you can't help someone who doesn't want it. There's a difference between wanting help and wanting someone to do everything, and be everything, for you. She's never going to stop this if it's her chosen option. It you who'll have to stop it by saying No More and expecting her to choose something else.

Agree with AmberitsaCertainty - Jeepers - your DD's problems are NOT your problems to fix. By all means be a friendly ear and reassure that you love her. Teach her to figure things out for herself and explore options and consequences of those options. Do nothing else! It's really easy as a parent to keep stepping in but there comes a point when you have to step back for them to learn. Also - there's nothing to feel guilty about if they make a different choice to the one you would have or get upset over the consequences. She's an adult and needs to learn to behave like one.

Jeepers - it sounds as if you worry a great deal about your DD.

What may also help you to withdraw is to make yourself busy with something else. Take up a hobby, a job if you don't have one, volunteering, arrange many meetups with your friends (COVID permitting) - anything really that will keep your mind occupied with something that is not related to your daughter in anyway. You may find that not being readily available to your DD will also help her - and YOU too - to find alternative coping strategies.

She needs therapy ... unfortunately as she will not go unless things reach rock bottom you have no choice.
You need to let her fall... monitor from a distance if needed but just let her fall...If really necessary move in to mop up
Also counselling is not always effective, people try many times before they get a suitable therapist but if she’s being enabled there’s no drive iyswim.

Also she doesn’t know the effect this has on you probabaly because you haven’t told her! Treat her like an adult and not a child, yes she will be upset have a meltdown but you have to wait it out, do not give in, she will come around

Sometimes she just says crossly well i dont wantto.thik about it
When she says that, you know you've found the issue.

The description of your DD is very like my DSis. She relies on the near total support of our parents and for them to be available to her for every uni course, job interview etc. She lived with them for a long time and my dad still drives her to work every day. She doesn't really like it when they go on holiday without her and always has some sort of "crisis" when they are away.

OP you do have my sympathy as I know how totally draining dealing with someone like this can be!

The root of all this in my family is that our mum has vulnerable narcissist traits - which I am absolutely not saying you do OP! But just saying for context.

DMs emotional state has meant she is "enmeshed" with Dsis, she absolutely cannot tolerate Dsis' emotional pain, she feels it as her own pain. So she does everything she can to "relieve" Dsis' pain, tries to make everything easy for her.

As a result, Dsis has never had to stand on her own to feet and has no trust in her own ability to negotiate difficult periods in life.

It's all really hard OP. But what I think would help is for you to do some work on supporting yourself, so you are better equipped when DD goes through difficult times and you just let her get on with it.

@Jeeperscreeper, after your recent posts detailing her efforts to avoid being alone, risk taking behaviour, clingy behaviour in relationships, 'shape shifting' (unstable self concept), high reactivity (can't take criticism and won't discuss problems), seeking some meaningful purpose in her life /feeling of emptiness, make me suggest you read up on borderline personality disorder.

Does she ever display a high degree of anger?

She was always in my orbit

I would feel mortified if my mum spoke of me like this, as if I was a burden to her.

Please talk to her every day if she needs to, it would be cruel otherwise!

Financial help is another matter, however, and she should start to be more independent, I agree